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Building During Divorce

RV9ForMe

I'm New Here
Just signed on and wanted to get an opinion on something perhaps even from others that have gone through something similar.

I have been thinking of building an RV9 for some time now and lurking here. I own an airplane already but would most likely at some logical point of the build have to sell it in order to purchase the more expensive bits (avionics/Engine). I took a builders workshop and liked it but do see the amazing amount of work that will be involved.

My dilemma:

I am most likely going to be going through a divorce in the next year or so.

What I was thinking is that having a project such as this would allow me to focus on something other than problems, even though I do see that some people slow down or stop their projects when going through this.

Have others been through something like this and did they find that the RV project was a welcome distraction?

Logistics of course will be something I have to consider. I will have to buy another house with building space (garage). I was thinking of that anyways as I do have kids.

Thanks for your opinions.
 
Suggestion

If you are likely going through a divorce in the near future. SELL your plane and hide the $$ fast.
Get it off the table prior to split up. You dont need a whole lot of room to build the emp, and even if you have it...not a huge asset to split. Would be a shame to loose half the equity of a flying airplane.

Good luck, sounds like a lousy year....hope the build gives you a positive distraction. You will love the plane when finished and the build will be awesome therapy and learning.
 
If you are likely going through a divorce in the near future. SELL your plane and hide the $$ fast.
Get it off the table prior to split up.


Take this man's advice! I had a similar situation many years ago, kids, the works, and after the trash and bash I couldn't afford to fly for the next ten years.
 
cold hard fact. divorce is a legal issue, don't discuss it with a bunch of tin-knockers. unless that tin-knocker is a good divorce lawyer. This is a public forum and any discussion of selling assets could come back to haunt you in a court room.

now, the relaxation from building an airplane may well do you good when you get into the divorce process. but personally I would not spend any money on what could be considered a joint asset until you consult a GOOD divorce lawyer.

but my advice is worth exactly what you paid for it, nada.
welcome to the group.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
Having been divorced... my advice is put energy into NOT getting divorced! Like war, divorce needs to be the LAST and desperate option! Because once you go down the D path... you'll have yourself a war.
 
Been there done that, buddy.

As other have said - shed the plane you have now first.

If you choose to start building before/during the divorce, any parts you buy are subject to division by the court as joint property. I was in that situation and when the subject came up in court, that item was listed on the paperwork as "home-built airplane project" and the judge just rolled his eyes and muttered "You gotta be kidding me..." and her attorney conceded it to me without a word. They don't think much at all about a pile of aluminum scrap until and unless it becomes a flying airplane - at that point it has value and they want to fight about it. Before the airworthiness certificate shows up, it's just a pile of parts and the value is a huge judgement call.

Being the pessimist sort about the whole divorce thing, I would advise you to use community funds to buy the entire kit now, and her attorney would be looking at "used market" firesale prices to try to get any money back out of it if he wants to fight over it, the odds are in your favor. I have one friend with an RV7 that held off getting his airworthiness certificate until after the divorce, the judge assessed the project at 60% new parts value because it was only a collection of parts, he wrote her a check for half of that and walked away. Once the plane was a flying aircraft it would be much more valuable and you would likely end up selling it on the market and splitting the proceeds.

Divorce is a nasty thing. Avoid it if you can. In the end though, there are some women that fly a twin-engine broom and you just need to get away from them ASAP.
 
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Thanks for the advice so far.

Was thinking to focus this more on the RV building aspect than the divorce itself.

Suffice it to say from the "D" perspective I have worked on it for years and let's just say the line has been crossed more than once in the faithfulness dept on her part. I am also very much of the belief that you work things out but I believe we are past that now. Having said that we are going to work towards a mediated divorce rather than a shoot out with lawyers as we both understand where that leads.

I am hoping there are people who have gone through this perhaps during their builds who can share if it helped them or not during trying times.

I am unusual in that I am considering starting during that kind of a time. I should get everything slow build so I have even more work to do :))))
 
Thanks for the advice so far.

Was thinking to focus this more on the RV building aspect than the divorce itself.

Suffice it to say from the "D" perspective I have worked on it for years and let's just say the line has been crossed more than once in the faithfulness dept on her part. I am also very much of the belief that you work things out but I believe we are past that now. Having said that we are going to work towards a mediated divorce rather than a shoot out with lawyers as we both understand where that leads.

I am hoping there are people who have gone through this perhaps during their builds who can share if it helped them or not during trying times.

I am unusual in that I am considering starting during that kind of a time. I should get everything slow build so I have even more work to do :))))

It was absolutely therapy for me to have my project during my divorce, I put in about 400 hours in my build during a 3-month period right at the end of the proceedings. That project and my beer fridge kept me sane.
 
Get yourself an EMP kit. That will keep you going for a while.
That is how I started, six years later I had a great plane. I could work on it any time I wanted, im already looking for my next project.
Welcome to VAF.
 
My Sanity

Just signed on and wanted to get an opinion on something perhaps even from others that have gone through something similar.

I have been thinking of building an RV9 for some time now and lurking here. I own an airplane already but would most likely at some logical point of the build have to sell it in order to purchase the more expensive bits (avionics/Engine). I took a builders workshop and liked it but do see the amazing amount of work that will be involved.

My dilemma:

I am most likely going to be going through a divorce in the next year or so.

What I was thinking is that having a project such as this would allow me to focus on something other than problems, even though I do see that some people slow down or stop their projects when going through this.

Have others been through something like this and did they find that the RV project was a welcome distraction?

Logistics of course will be something I have to consider. I will have to buy another house with building space (garage). I was thinking of that anyways as I do have kids.

Thanks for your opinions.

Been there, done that.

The only one that makes out in a divorce is the attorneys.

I started building my RV-6 during my first divorce and finished after my second.

The airplane is named "My Sanity" because instead of chasing wild women and drinking, I put my energy into building the airplane.

As you suggest, do not waddle in self-pity, concentrate on the airplane.

Just my two cents.
 
not to be a debbie downer but.

if you think you are getting a divorce within the next year, then don't even bother starting. obviously your relationship is at the point of no recovery if you accepted this. you have much bigger issues at hand that need to be resolved to beginning something as large as this. resolve or dissolve your issues and make sure you are on good ground.
 
Ahh... got it....
Then sell your spam can NOW and convert it into a QB "pile" of RV parts sooner than later. QB will give you more building time than you can imagine and get you back into the air at least a year faster.

And yes, building, like flying, is a great distraction from life's problems and the BEST therapy I've ever had!
 
Yep, it helps.

Went through pretty much the same thing, but for me, once wife 1.0 moved out, neither of us pushed to get the divorce done right away. I was comfortable in the house and wasn't in a hurry to move out and she was happy having health insurance.

So it took a few years. My kids had grown and moved out, so it was me, the cat and not much else to take up my eveings.

I needed a distraction. I was making good money (before this current mess of an economy) and all my time and money was used the way I wanted to use it for the first time in 24 years.

The first distraction was the Harley I'd really wanted all along. Bought a 10 yar old Ultra Classic. This is an instant gratification thing and I put 15,000 miles on that thing the first year. (course that led to a new one as I guess I'll be riding until I cant!)

Then it was the RV I'd wanted to build since 1994.

As I had a LOT of trouble sleeping from the stress, I used Van's sales DVD as a sleep aid along with over the counter sleep meds (and occaisionally a bit of Balvinie Double Wood Scotch!). Man, that DVD really worked well after about the 30th or 40th viewing! I could recite a lot of it if I had to! Kind of sick really! :eek: But it was great motivation. It got to where I didn't make it much past the introduction of the models, and then ZZZzzzzzzzz.

Bought the tail kit, which I went through pretty fast, then I just ordered the rest all at one time. Built a lot in my garage and that really worked well to keep me busy in the evenings. Curbed the Scotch usage as well, which was good. I feared going down that slippery slope.

So for the above reasons, I think building during this time is a good idea, course you also have minor children to keep you busy, so that will help.

When we finally got around to getting the divorce done, I'd spent a lot of money I'd earned after 1.0 moved out, but as we were still legally married it was technically half hers, which worried me a LOT!

I think as was said earlier, that assigning a value to the project was difficult, so between that and possibly because 1.0 didin't want to see the dream destroyed, I was able to get the whole thing taken off the table before the big ax came down on the remaining assets.

Don't get me wrong though, I still totally got the shaft and will be paying the rest of my life for a divorce I didn't want.

So I still have the project. Hopefully it will fly next summer. 2.0 is a definite upgrade :D:D:D and life is back on track.

So hang in there buddy! You can only control the way you react to the situation and that's all. Jump in and start work on your dream! It's a great distraction!
 
If you really want a distraction, start an RV-3. With nothing pre-punched there's a lot more work and a lot more to think about. You'll have too much on your mind to fret.

Plus it's a single-seater. It's all you need. And having only that one seat will inevitably lead to finding a new relationship. That part is a given - it's Murphy's contribution to the project.

Dave
Just tryin' to help....
 
I went through a short marriage and divorce. I found my airplane project to be very good therapy, and am glad I had it, that and some really good friends that were building and flying RV's at the time.
 
All good advice here!

Shoot me a PM and we can meet someplace and i will tell you about my divorce experience over a beer!

Good luck buddy!

:rolleyes: CJ
 
my opinion

I would say it depends on your divorce and significant other. If she is one who will get made and trash the plane, then I would hold off putting any time into something she might destroy. My second advice is to not hide anything. If everything is disclosed up front, the legal problems may be much easier. However, I like the idea of holding off on an airworthiness until after it is all settled. Trying to hide assets is one thing (bad), but being smart about not gaining too much value in an asset until after the divorce is another and depends on her lawyer and how pissed she is at you.JMHO
 
I didn't build during the divorce, in fact, I stored the parts at a friends hangar.
I spent my off work time being a dad, which was the right thing for me.
After I was again ready to build, I switched from a RV-4 to an RV-8, and sold the RV-4 bits.
 
Mediate

If both of you can work out a split and agree on terms outside of a court room and with as little Lawyer time as possible it will be a win win situation for both of you.

When I went through my divorce we were able to be civil to each other and agreed on everything (with a little give and take) and it still cost several thousand in lawyer bills etc. I would hate to think what it would have cost if we went down the court room option.

If you can get your project then I personally would do it, because the dark thoughts and regrets can be pretty bad at times. Having something to fill evenings and weekends is a real plus. However before you buy make sure you check with a professional about the ramifications on any settlement. That is one legal phone call you will have to make.

By looking at this thread there are a lot of other people who have "been there, done that" so in that sense you are not alone, there are a lot of guys who know exactly how you feel. The aviation community is great to belong to and real bond exists between yourself and other pilots (even better in the RV community)

Good luck with everything


Jim
 
Wow. This thread is filled with great advice. I had heard much of it before, and from some of the same players, but it's nice to see it all in one place.

Let me add my perspective. I am fresh out of this ****. I joined this community four years ago just a short few months before finding out I would be getting unexpectedly divorced after a 23-year marriage to the person I had thought was my best friend. I was blindsided.

Everything started out amicably, but went downhill fast when I failed to rollover (like every guy is expected to) on the question of custody. Although I eventually "won" on that issue, I am certain the scars--financial and emotional--will never heal.

My advice mirrors some of the above. Specifically, it is:

1) Take no legal advice from anyone here. Our experiences are different from each others', and different from yours. Get professional help, and expect to pay well for it.

2) Divorce lawyers suck.[Edit: see below.] If that seems to contradict my first point above, too bad. I think finding a great advocate for yourself is both highly critical and simultaneously nearly impossible. Do the best you can, ask around locally, get lots of opinions, and then trust your gut and go only with someone to whom you can hand over a significant portion of your life.

3) Do not talk any more in public about your divorce. That cannot help you, neither emotionally nor legally, and it can definitely hurt you.

4) Go ahead and start a project. Having mine kept me sane. And hanging out with other builders here and in real life kept me alive.

5) A tail kit is a great distraction from the beasties who will live in your head for awhile, but is a minor investment which you can afford to lose. If that happens, if you lose your first project as I did, fret not and begin again.

6) The people here, by virtue of having trod the path you are starting, and even more by virtue of being the most decent people I've ever met, are exactly who you want on your side during this time. Despite this thread, the best comfort you will get from VAF during your journey is that there are few distractions here. You will be covertly and overtly encouraged to focus on your project, not on your home life, and in the end, that will be the best thing for you. It's not that building an RV will keep your divorce from taking over a majority of your life, it's that it will keep your divorce from taking over the entirety of your life. And that's worth a pretty penny, right there.

7) If there is anything you can do to avoid your divorce, it's decidedly worth it to try. Mediate. See a counsellor. Apologize. Forgive. Whether or not any of that works is beside the point. Knowing you did everything you could will be a small comfort but a comfort all the same when the whole thing is over and behind you.

My best to you. May you be blessed by whatever you need to overcome this challenge.

--
Stephen

[Edit: a fellow builder here contacted me privately to point out that my comment "Divorce lawyers suck" is not only crude but also unfair. He is right. My comment correctly expresses my frustration with a small few members of his profession, but it was wrong of me to paint the whole profession and all of its practitioners with the same brush. Although I would hope that the rest of my advice adequately expresses how important I think it is to find one of those professionals to work on your behalf, still, that doesn't excuse my inflammatory and insulting choice of language. I am sorry. --Stephen]
 
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Advice

The standard advice is "Lawyer up, hit the gym", but I guess in your case it would be "Mediator up, hit the shop".

Can't speak to the big 'D' issue (thankfully) but I can say that when I get down to the shop and start working on my 8, my mind is not on anything else, good or bad. It really is a very effective escape from anything else.

If you can get your kids to come down and "help", that will also be a great chance for them to get their minds off of other things as well.

Best of luck with it Mike - I hope it works out. You've got a great support network here on VAF.
 
Man, all of this is sooo painful to read.:mad:

It's been seven years...still hurts.


Best,

Yes, situations are very different!

Mine is very different from Pierre's.

It has been four years for me and I have never been happier!

Stop by for a project visit if you like as well.

Hang in there!

:cool: CJ
 
Reading all these responses gives me even more reason to go hug my wife....

Having seen my sister go through a divorce that was not of her doing, I can certainly sympathize with those who have also. Hang in there. Life goes on.

I also strongly agree that an RV project is just what the doctor ordered. Go for it.
 
There are lots of good ideas here - I went through my divorce while I was building as well. I hope by now that you have given up the idea of "hiding" or "protecting" airplane assets - any lawyer worth anything will find this thread, and your motives have been revealed - sorry about that, but that is just fact. If you want the thread gone, ask a Moderator, but the "Wayback Machine" might still reveal it.

Yes, building during the divorce is good therapy - who gets the airplanes, the money, the assets...that will depend on your unique situation.

There IS light at the end of the tunnel however - finishing and flying my airplane lead me to find Louise, the best thing that ever happened to me!

Paul
 
Integrity

Paul is absolutely correct, hide nothing. Take the high road. You'll feel better and it will ultimately make the project more rewarding.

A tail kit is a great starting point and will provide you with a mental distraction during the tough times with minimal cash outlay.

No matter what happens, have a hobby or something to keep you busy. You'll need it.

Good luck!!!
 
At least I have something else in common with you guys beside building an RV. :D

The thing I learned through it all, was no matter how deep the quagmire may seem at the time, keep on truckin'. It's all survivable. Like Paul and CJ, the best thing in life happened to me after I got through that mess.

Good luck!
 
No Females have responded

Sometimes we get married for the wrong reasons and after a time the princess world that she hoped for fades away and she feels that life is passing her by. She needs to recapture the dream and divorce is one way to start. For men we often have are ducks in a row and are fine with things staying as they are. When it happens I think it is a pivotal event where you have to stop and recognize the opportunity to redirect your life in ways you could not with the constraints of your current life. View it as an opportunity to begin again and if building an RV-9 is the direction you want to go and you can do it then that is what I would do. If that falls through then you will have another major life shift to go through but in the mean time you will be living with a purpose.

Bob Axsom
 
I think many of us know the pain....just went through it 18 months ago....18 yr marriage...2 kids...1 RV.....for the same reason you mentioned. No one can tell you how one can be blindsided but I describe it as being sucker punched in the gut, kneed in the "happy place", and shattering your face on the fall to the floor...drastic I know...but until you feel the pain, it really can't be related to until one feels it him/herself....I wish this on no one. Because of my circumstances (like yours) I had a bit of an upper hand and did it all "online" for $400 (including court costs) in about six months. We just split it 50/50 and have a good agreement with the kids. We have kept a good relationship since, which is great for my boys. She got the house, everything in it, 1/2 my retirement, etc...but I kept my RV and my hangar. My plane was finished so after 4 months of sleeping on an air matress it was nice to have something to look forward to other than another day of pain....

Mediate it out if you can.....I have a friend 15K into a divorce and they haven't even decided temporary custody.......start building....start healing....keep up the relationship with your kids.....there is life beyond this. Its hard to see I know....god how I know....but keep the faith.

Cheers,

Kurt
 
Splitsville

My Lawyer advised..."It's my job to cut the two of you apart but when I'm done cutting, the only one that's going to be bleeding is you."
 
I was mid stream in the build during my divorce. Finishing the airplane was great therapy as others mentioned.

In regard to those that feel it is a good strategy to cheat your once significant other out of thier "fair" share....sorry, I just don't understand that and, (Forest Gump),; "that is all I will say about that."

For those that hate laywers, I had a very good one, divorced in a "no fault" State, and all property was divided equally, including the value of the RV parts and pieces which where easily documented. She, yes my laywer was female, did a great job, let me review all documents, correct them and comment. Saved me thousands.... If you have half of a brain, you can do a lot of the work the laywer charges $350/hr to do and get a lot better understanding of what is going on. Make sure your lawyer understands what you want to do and if they wont let you, find another one. The divorce proceedings, property settlements, and support are pretty much dictated by law by each state. They are not that hard to understand.

Regardless, put the bitterness and pain aside, but not your hobby.
 
Well, I'm right there with you.

My own divorce was completed on June 1, 2012, after 18 years of marriage and 3 kids. Thankfully I stumbled upon this forum in late August. After seeing all the Van's stuff coming out of Oshkosh this year, I had to learn more. I had no idea. Now I have read DR's article on how to finance the construction and every single dime is being socked away to build a 7A. (Yet there is something attractive about the 8 too ... time will tell.)

As a lawyer, trust me - to the extent you can trust any lawyer ;) - "hiding the assets" is the worst decision you can make. Divorce is about splitting everything that you accumulated during the marriage equitably. Without a doubt everyone loses in a divorce, and the lawyer sends the bill. See if you can find that equitable middle - and that does not mean 50/50 - without the lawyers and the courts, because quite frankly, you are going to end up there anyway. You will find that there are opportunities to be bitter and opportunities to be better. I hope you choose the latter.

Take care,

Ron Ryan
Kalamazoo, MI
 
Perhaps a little joke

Q. Why do scientists prefer to do experiments on Divorce Lawyers?


A. Because you can form an emotional attachment to a white rat.
 
As a lawyer, trust me - to the extent you can trust any lawyer ;) - "hiding the assets" is the worst decision you can make.

I can't speak from direct experience, only indirectly (parents divorced) but I can second this statement having seen what happens when you're caught...attempting to hide assets or shift them to other people/relatives resulted in the party doing so to end up losing pretty much everything. I mean *every thing*. House. Business. Cars. Property. Possessions. Money.

Judges don't like being played for fools...

Worked out great for the side that played by the rules, though...
 
So Helpful Everyone

Thanks everyone for the great advice, and encouragement.

Right now I am in the thick of things, so am going to slow down and make rational choices here. There are reasons I didn't build in the past having little to do with my current situation so I should also respect those (space to build, confidence that I would stick with it through the whole thing, etc).

Even though this is the RV forum, just hearing from others that have been through this has been very helpful and the advice is great. This is a fantastic forum.

It's ironic, but my number of years matches several others here as well. Married 18 yrs, two kids. This was something that happened to "that other guy". But here I am just about in the same mess.

Keep it coming if others have more advice RV or not but it helped.
 
I couldn't help but notice the same... I divorced in 94-96.... I was 20 yrs and 2 kids. Seems pretty obvious things fall apart in relationships that come to a breaking point around that time. Lord knows I wish you (and all the others in similar boats) the best. There is life after divorce, for the worst financially, for the best emotionally. Like all changes in life, it brings new opportunities.
 
To build or not

Building an RV takes a lot of time. I started in 1996 and hope to move it to the airport in November! Even supportive wives get jealous of the plane at times. I think you have to put it aside now and then and focus on the important relationships. (If she starts encouraging you to go out to the shop and work on the plane or go to that fly-in with your friends you may have a more serious problem than that leaky fuel tank you have to open up.) With respect to cheaters, I have found this reference in the instruction manual to be particularly helpful. Romans 12:19. You can count on it.
 
Raise your kids. Build your plane . . .

Been there, too. Here's some advice. Maybe some encouragement:

? Don?t count on any promises being kept that are not in writing. Protect yourself.
? Always hold the mother of your kids in high esteem. Take the high road.
? Choose time with your kids whenever possible. Sure, they'll forgive the times you're not there but they?ll remember forever the times you are.
? Don't ever think that you've wasted the past. Instead, consider it as necessary training for a great life that is ahead.

Both of my kids returned to live with me as soon as they were old enough to choose and, eventually, I remarried (just celebrated 20 years). She?s the cutest, smartest, funniest and most devoted woman alive. I wouldn't have this wonderful life had it not been for my previous life experiences. I am grateful for it all.

Raise your kids. Build your plane. Be strong and have hope.
David
 
on the lighter side

Forgot to mention, in terms that Bob A. might appreciate, my new wife has considerably less drag than my ex.
David
PS And yes, I did pick up a couple of knots.
 
With respect to cheaters, I have found this reference in the instruction manual to be particularly helpful. Romans 12:19. You can count on it.

While I agree with you and this quote - I also believe that while it may be required of me to forgive, I would be an absolute idiot to forget.

I eventually forgave my first wife for cheating on me - but she's still my ex-wife.
 
I am amused at some of the comments, especially that everything will be split equally.
My first wife while I was in Vietnam, found a sleazebutt alcoholic boyfriend. During my tour I sent most all my wages home to her and thought things were going well.
At the end of my tour, I found that she had allowed him to dispose of all my tools, most all of my belongings, and had nicely added to his wardrobe by maxing out my Sears, Pennys, and all other credit cards. I don't feel that she deserved any 50% of anything!
[ed. One sentence removed - unbelieveably inappropriate for this forum. dr]
 
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