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How Much will a finished 12 sell for?

steve wyman

Well Known Member
Here's an interesting question for the group. Now that we know how much it will cost to build an RV-12 (just under $60K, without paint), how much do you guys think a finished 12 would sell for (in this soft market)? The reason I ask is this: I can't afford to keep both the 12 and my RANS S-7S, so one must go. So far I have been unable to sell the RANS( I haven't really tried very hard, yet), but even so, the possibility exists that I might have to sell the 12, if I can't sell the RANS. So, again the question, what will a finished 12 sell for in this market? All opinions appreciated. Steve
 
What?

100k?..I would doubt it..We're seeing prices on the fast models around not much more than the cost of the parts.

I seriously doubt my IFR 7a with and IO360 and C/s prop would fetch 100k right now.

Frank
 
New S-LSA like the -12 (low wing, Rotax, 110kt cruise) are selling for 100 to $130k, depending on options. Used ones (2-3 yr old, 200-400 hr) are going for $80k.

I'd say $90k - $100k is in the right ballpark for a well built and equipped new -12.

TODR
 
Well mine will be for sale. Hope to have it done by the end of next month. I think I am going to build a 7.
 
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If there were such a thing as a factory built RV-12 I'd say just under $100K would be the selling price.

While the RV-12 as an LSA is a controlled product it is not a certified product. As such I'd say it will bring less as a result.

This is independent of who built it and how good a job they did.

Folks looking for a "new", two place, trainer aircraft have a lot of $100K options to choose from. The RV-12 has the best performance, etc. but it is still not a "factory" built plane.

For the market segment that doesn't care about factory built $100K will buy a lot of used certified airplane or a very nice RV if they don't mind buying experimental.

Perhaps the fact the RV-12 can be flown sport pilot will add some potential buyers that know they might not pass a medical in the near future. How big that segment is is an open question.

Of course, in any given individual case the price an RV-12 will bring is whatever someone will pay your for it.....
 
Just another idea

I'd guess closer to $85K, assuming a decent paint job, and low hours. The composite planes look nice, and will bring more. Pulled rivet planes I don't thinik will bring that much. I hope I am wrong !

John Bender
 
Well I am building one for sale. This will be a turn key ready to fly. New painted how you want it. Should be done by the end of next month. What should I ask for this plane. I forgot to mention I went with the 495 option.

Thanks, Joe

Mine is for sale also. I would like to trade into a high HP -8 or a HRocket.
 
100k?..I would doubt it..We're seeing prices on the fast models around not much more than the cost of the parts.

I seriously doubt my IFR 7a with and IO360 and C/s prop would fetch 100k right now.
LSA prices have been on a different scale than non-LSA prices since day one. I seems to be driven by supply and demand. If you want a LSA, it doesn't matter what a RV-7/8/9 costs, it's not a LSA. Shoot, a working 150 can be had for $20k, but you can't fly it if you need a LSA.

There aren't that many used LSA out there, so prices are high. I suspect that will change in a few years.

TODR
 
Around $100K

A factory-built RANS S-19, similar to the RV-12, sells for $120K (analog panel) and $127K (glass panel). I'd guess a newly-finished -12 will bring around $100K, depending on build quality.
 
shoot, if a -12 is gonna sell for 100k, I'll start building one tomorrow to sell! I may have actually found a way to quit my job and support myself building airplanes full time. :) I dont see it, but I will be interested to see if I'm wrong.
 
Well I am building one for sale. This will be a turn key ready to fly. New painted how you want it. Should be done by the end of next month. What should I ask for this plane. I forgot to mention I went with the 495 option.

Thanks, Joe


HMMMMMM.............


This raising any eyebrows?
 
OK, why would someone pay $100K for an RV-12 when they can get a nice, restored T-craft, Cub, Champ, Interstate and a few others for $25-35? There's a vast difference in price and some of that is justified, but one has to ask is the difference really worth that much money?

With a new LSA or new design LSA bought used, you get a higher speed, and an electrical system and some improvement in handling qualities. The electrical system is a biggie, as the early Ercoupes and a couple Pipers are the only older planes I am aware of that have electrical systems. Is an electrical system worth that much?

Some of those new LSA's that sell for $100K+ are going to flight schools. That's a different market and doesn't relate very well to the market for an RV-12.

And there is the Eurofox, which is like a factory built Kitfox, and which starts at around $60K and has electrics.

So, given those other options, who among you would really pay $100K for a completed RV-12?
 
$100K and up???? Good luck with that!

Good luck getting much more than the cost of the parts in this market.

Even if the market was not soft, it is not typical to see sales prices that far above the cost of the parts on an experimental.

Sure there are exceptions but not that many of them......
 
New S-LSA like the -12 (low wing, Rotax, 110kt cruise) are selling for 100 to $130k, depending on options. Used ones (2-3 yr old, 200-400 hr) are going for $80k.

I'd say $90k - $100k is in the right ballpark for a well built and equipped new -12.

TODR

I know these are different markets, but look at the RV10 as compared to it's factory counterpart. The RV10 costs considerably less than anything in it's class and is arguably a better airplane. I believe you may get a premium for an RV12 for a while until the market settles out, then it will be like the rest. Then again, my crystal ball has been cloudy for a long time!:rolleyes:
 
RV 8s have been advertised for anywhere from $65K to $110K as an asking price. Of the sales I am aware of many have gone for under 70K.

The ones that have sold for 90+ have been superior quality models that the buyer knew of before purchase. Many have been on the market for over a year.

6s and 7s have sold for as as little as 55K and many RV 4s have been sold in the 40s-50s.

In general for a homebuilt I think you will be lucky to recoup the acquisition cost of the components. A planes worth has little to do with what you think it is worth as the builder and everything to do with what someone will pay you for it and what others are willing to sell theirs for.
 
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Milt, If you're refering to the 51% rule, I read somewhere that it doesn't apply to the E-SLA. Any one confirm this?

Nope just wondering if the ire that some exhibit at the thought of building for profit is selective.

It's not the 51% rule it's the attestation you sign when applying for an AC.
 
I know these are different markets, but look at the RV10 as compared to it's factory counterpart. The RV10 costs considerably less than anything in it's class and is arguably a better airplane. I believe you may get a premium for an RV12 for a while until the market settles out, then it will be like the rest. Then again, my crystal ball has been cloudy for a long time!:rolleyes:

My thoughts exactly. There is a reason 4,6,7,8,9,10 are selling so cheap. That's because there are hundreds of them for sale. The cost to build a 12 is not much cheaper than any other model.
 
shoot, if a -12 is gonna sell for 100k, I'll start building one tomorrow to sell! I may have actually found a way to quit my job and support myself building airplanes full time. :) I dont see it, but I will be interested to see if I'm wrong.

Don't quit the day job just yet.

Let's see quick cost analysis:

RV-12 kit - $60K
500 hours to build - your labor (on a good day)
Paint - $5,000 (if done in a nice paint booth - you do want your product to look good, right?)

OK you get $35K Gross margin or are paid about $70/hour. This is before expenses like taxes, interest on your $60K investment, liability insurance (Hmm might need that now), etc.

No body getting rich that way....
 
I Most likely will be wrong but I could see it going for a suprising amount when they first get completed. With the good nature of the RV name, having one of the first ones flying, I could see it like a new car essentially, there is a high demand right when they are released and people pay rediculious amounts for them. So for those of you who are already planning a sale I say you may be in luck as for a year from now when there is a 100 of them flying around no so much. Just my 2cents probably wrong but hey worth a shot......
 
Nope just wondering if the ire that some exhibit at the thought of building for profit is selective.

It's not the 51% rule it's the attestation you sign when applying for an AC.
Milt,
Not sure what "attestation" you are referring to. You don't sign an 8130-12 for E-LSA. They CAN be built with the intention of selling.
 
a while back (long before the economy took a swan dive) a poster used some recent RV-* sales he was privy to as a basis to state prices of average completed planes could be grouped into the following brackets.... (this list gathered from a cobweb filled memory)

4 - $40's
6 - $60's
7&8 - $80's
9 - $70's

the outcry to the post resembled one of the recent town hall meetings. i believe the poster soon beat into submission, deleted his post and the entire thread.

a bell shape curve surely applies as some spectacular 6s surely have sold in the +$80's and some in the $40's, etc. also, hangar boasting surely elevates the average sales prices 10's of thousands higher than the purchase price averages. the state of the world wide economy has forced many owners to critically evaluate their ability to own and maintain, what to the majority is, a luxury.

while we all wanna believe our kid (or dog) is the smartest, our sports team the best and our plane the most valuable. be cautious and realistic with expectations and careful not to let exuberance seduce any of us into joining the recently reported ~50% of underwater homeowners.
 
Cost

Well.... lets see.... approx 46k for the kit and powerplant.....and another 10k in avionics and builders time worth about zilch.... Thats about 56k plus others and shipping.... say 60k to turn out a -12.... I say the first ones will go for 80 and then settle down for about 60 once there are a few hundred completed... A few will list for 100k but sell for 90.... some will go for 50... depending on the quality of the build. Then down the road I see them settling down to the mid 40's. I see the average pilot getting older... the recent gas hike knocked out a LOT of pilots and they do not want to get back in the medical game.... quite a few will return to the -12 market but still the average pilot is getting older and new ones are not replacing the old ones... it will be a buyers market for many many many years to come. We need to knock down the fences at the airports and get the airport kid washing airplanes again and throw the "electronic game console" out the window. My worthless 2 cents....
Best
Brian
 
If you want one bad enough, the parts cost $60k and there are more than a few folks out there who would charge you $20k to put it together and squirt a coat of paint on it. I can't see the market being above about $80k. Even then, in a couple of years there will be plenty of "nearly complete RV-12" projects on Barnstormers, VAF, or elsewhere for the cost of the parts (i.e. free labor), which will further deflate the price.
 
Just depends on what you want!

RV-12 E-LSA
Do my own annuals if I take a weekend class, I have. Cant do that on a factory built airplane like a Champ etc.
Don?t need a Medical to fly it, a big deal because we will be having a large amount of baby boomers out there.
Can pay someone to build it for me if I want.
Can put it in a trailer and pull it behind my Recreational Vehicle cause
Wings come off in 5 minutes.
Once built maintenance is minimal.
Can stop off at 7eleven for a big gulp and top off the tank with Premium unleaded, cause its in a trailer.
Don?t need a mixture, just a choke for first flight of the day starts.
Can simple operate the throttle like a jet engine cause there is no super cooling, water cooled.
Don?t need a primer either.
Don?t need a constant speed prop just more maintenance, But could ground adjust my prop in 30 mins if necessary.
Don?t want to fly at night.
Don?t want to fly IFR.
Don?t want round dials in my cockpit.
Yes, I like it when My Wife or buddy sits right next to me.
Don?t want to do aerobatics.
Simply go to Wal-Mart for new spark plugs and oil at annual.
Rans S19 S-LSA is actually priced at 127K and 135K as told from Randy at Osh.
RV-12, Will cruise at 115Kts IAS, I know, I flew the Yellow one, Maybe faster with wheel pans and strut fairings.
Anybody care to add to the list?
OK my Bullet Proof vest is on Fire Away.
 
If you want one bad enough, the parts cost $60k and there are more than a few folks out there who would charge you $20k to put it together and squirt a coat of paint on it. I can't see the market being above about $80k. Even then, in a couple of years there will be plenty of "nearly complete RV-12" projects on Barnstormers, VAF, or elsewhere for the cost of the parts (i.e. free labor), which will further deflate the price.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. Also, keep in mind, this price would be for a built to order RV in the color of your choice.

Infact, my bet is that if the first few start selling for $80K (and that is a BIG IF), VERY QUICKLY, you would see shops opening up selling them for $70K. With jigs and other things already set up, and some cheap college student/retired labor a guy could still make a few thousand dollars profit from selling RV-12s. My personal bet is that the cap will be at $70K, with most selling for what the builder had in it ( ~$60K). Keep in mind that this is in a good market.

Also, another big t detriment to RV-12s collecting high dollars is that they are so quick to build. I know van advertised 800hrs, but you RV12 builders appear to be going A LOT quicker than that. Building a 12 will be a lot less intimidating to owners than building a 7,8,9 or especially a 10.

Lastly, as has already been stated, there is a whole lot of competition from the SLSAs.The RV10s only real competition from the certified world is the SR-22, which cost new over twice as much as the nicest RV-10. The 7, 8, and 9 have no competition, period. The only thing coming close is the lopresti fury, which isn't in production yet. However, there are several SLSAs that are just as fast and have as much or more useful load.
 
Who Cares?

I have had a blast building my 12. I look at my building time more as "entertainment" rather than work. The plusses for a 12: Mogas with up to 10% alcohol; No medical; You can do your own annuals & maintenance; you don't need an STC to modify something; great handling......Negatives: insurance is higher; some people are scared off by homebuilts. Every day I go to the airport and play. Lots of folks come by and chat. It takes me 25% longer to build due to the "interruptions" I have also become part of the airport community and have met more people in the 9 months of building than I ever did in 10 years of coming out and flying my Warrior. I am tempted to sell my 12 when finished for the parts cost and build another one just for the fun of it.
 
I agree with Mark's "Who cares" response. I hope most folks are building for the pleasure of the build, or because they actually want the aircraft! But I also know folks like to think they have equity in their lives.

I also note all the references to RAN's S-19 being advertised in the $120 - 130K range. But I have to ask... how many have they actually sold at that price?

Personally.... I don't see them (RV-12) selling for much, if any more than the price of the parts... $60 - $65K. I think that is reality - especially in today's economy.

My humble opinion...

DJ
 
I've been follwing this thread with a little interest since I am in the market for an airplane. I always keep an eye on the investment side of the equation because, after all, it is a sizable chunk of $$. It helps if your assets at least keep up with inflation.

Many of the factors that make the -12 desireable to build will work against its market value. At best, you might get 10% above the cost of parts if you have an outstanding airplane, but it will still be a cookie cutter of hundreds of others built the exact same way. At that point, it becomes a commodity market. (eg - high volume, low margin, little differentiation). I agree that early models may top out a little higher but I think it is unrealistic to expect much more than $70K a year or so from now.
 
I agree with the assessments that the 12 will not go for much more than the cost of the parts. Even at first I would not pay much more than the cost of the parts thinking that in a year from now the costs will level out to that point. I would not be willing to pay more and take a hit on depreciation the first year. Why start out high just to end up low. New planes take enough of a beating on value. It would not be worth it to me to pay a premium just to be first. Sometimes first is not good. You are behind on improvements.
 
I may be swimming upstream but....

...Looking at how long some RV's sit for sale in this economic climate, at prices way below parts cost, it makes me wonder if the -12's will even fetch parts cost.

We'll soon see, won't we?

Regards,
 
rv12

Pierre, always the realist, and in my view, correct!

I start the RV12 build shortly, still to complete the inventory, but regard this airplane/flying/building/ownership as a very expensive, selfish, personal pleasure and am so grateful that SWMBO is right behind me!

Incidentally, the smallest plane she will fly in is the Aztec, and that at a push!!

Graham (UK)

(RV6a -now restricted to hard runways- don't ask why)
 
More things to consider!

A couple more things you can do with the RV12.

Can fly with 2 200lb guys, 20 gals of fuel, can take 30lbs of bags, cant do that in a Cessna 150, 152, or Skycatcher.

How many wives will ride on the back of that Harley. (be Honest)

Suppose your wife doent really like to fly, but doesn?t want to be left out of the fun, the weather is marginal VFR and the there is a pancake breakfast 50 miles away where the weather is CLR on any given Saturday. Simple load it in the trailer and drive to the Fly in. Deploy the canopy on the side of your trailer, put out the chairs for your wife and visitors. Put those wings on and shoot some touch and gos to your hearts content. Who gives a hoot about the weather back at home base. Maybe even the wife can drive home while you enjoy a cold one.
 
Milt,

With RV-7's and -9's selling for as little as $65 to $75K, I have to agree with you.

I agree, but that may be a bit on the high side.
I was looking at possibly building a 12 in the future, but when I saw the kit price, I'd rather build an 8.

Less money, more airplane.
 
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RV-12 value

I am sorry to see some of the dome and gloom about the value of the RV-12 in this list.

Yes, some of you would not pay $ 90,000 for an RV-12 and there are two reasons for this, the first is that you do not wish to see value in the labor of others because you feel you can build one for your self and in most cases you can, the second is you just can not afford the fair price of a RV-12. Both reasons may sound good but the only reason that anyone will sell a RV-12 this year for less than about $ 90,000 is that they lack the fortitude to ask for and get a fair price for their fine aircraft, or perhaps they have done a very poor job of building it and wish to get a fair price for a poor example of a fine aircraft. I do not think there will be many if any in this poor quality class so it is mostly just a lack of marketing and sales skills that will permit lower prices.

The real customers for a finished RV-12 are people who would like to have a LSA and do not feel that they have the skill or time to build one. Many of these customers are 65 years old or older and they know that one year before long they may have medical issues and that if able they will want to continue flying. Others are more fixed income types who have not done well with their retirement nest egg this last year and lower cost flying is attractive to them.

Here in Spruce Creek we have six RV-12's under construction, two of the builders already own RV-8's and they are driven by the concerns about their ability to get a medical next time or the time after, one is 77 the other about 70 and both were airline pilots. The third is an ex airline pilot who did not wish to spend two years building an RV-7, which would have been his first choice. Four and five come from general aviation and just want a less expensive to operate aircraft that will fit in with the others on Saturday morning as we fly out in formation to breakfast about 60 miles away. The last one is the odd man out, he flew as an airline pilot but has never done anything that required tools and it has been a very steep learning curve for him, his tail kit has taken him about six weeks and was very frustrating for him at times. I think he may need to hire some help to get it finished but he will get through the wings this fall and we will see how it goes from there.

When our friends get to see us having a great time in our RV-12's and they get a ride in them then we will see what a RV-12 is worth that they can put in their hangar now and be flying next Saturday. I am betting that it will be $ 90,000 or so and it will be a great deal for them. That is if any of us will sell our first and just build another. Keep in mind that with two retired guys putting in 6 hours per day six days a week on average and with all the kits on hand it only takes about two months to build the next one, the kit will get better and there will be less learning curve on the second one, we have thought of many small thing that would make the second one easier and faster to build, we know how to do some of the harder tasks and we know where we may have wasted some time on the first one.

I see premiums being paid on LSA compliant Luscombes and Ercoupes to as much as 50% above there non-LSA brothers so there is a separate market and buyers with money and the need for an aircraft now instead of latter.

If we remain proud of our aircraft and demand a fair price we will get it, if we do not we will only have our selves to blame for a poor market price.

I might add that I have seen RV-8's sold for over $ 140,000 here, yes they were fine aircraft, as are most here due to very high pressure from ones associates to do a better job on any kit. One of our recent RV-8's won best workmanship at Sun-n-Fun and several have been featured in the aviation press.

Have a good day.

Best regards,
Vern
 
Vern,

Speaking as one that is building a 12 and does not plan on selling it so value is not as important: I hope you are right. The more the guys get for selling theirs the more mine will be worth. All I can say is get as much as you can get and make mine worth more.
 
I think there is an untapped market of fliers for the RV-12 that will influence the market conditions for some period of time. But when there are 10 RV-12's for sale, and they are outfitted exactly the same, and they perform exactly the same, the only differentiators will be condition and price. Whoever is the most interested in selling first will simply lower their price to less than the others. This will drive the price down and the only counter to this is if the demand exceeds the supply. At the rate the -12s are going together, I suspect (but don't know for sure) that the supply will easily meet the demand.

The other RV models don't sell in the same manner as the -12 because each one is unique and can be sold individually based upon those merits. There will always be the case where someone likes your unique RV and "just has to have it". Those one-off sales are not indicative of typical market forces.

The overall economic market for airplanes will improve over time, just like the rest of the market so I'm confident prices will come back up slowly. I think it's been said many times that no one builds an airplane for the investment value. Again, I think if you can enjoy the hobby and eventually recoup at least your investment, that's not bad and it's certainly better than most hobbies. I know that in the kit car area, the cobra builders are also lamenting the fact that cobras are selling for less than the cost of materials right now. We are not alone.
 
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No one is spouting gloom and doom, we are just offering an opinion on the question, which was what will an RV 12 sell for in todays market.


you just can not afford the fair price of a RV-12.

just a lack of marketing and sales skills that will permit lower prices.

What follows has been plagarized but it is basically economics 101.

We all place an "intrinsic value" on our aircraft. Unless we find an uninformed buyer or unless our particular aircraft has a feature or features different and significantly desirable from similar aircraft it will sell at fair market value.


The price recieved has little to do with our pride or superior marketing skills.


Fair market value (FMV) is an estimate of the market value of an item is, based on what a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured buyer would probably pay to a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured seller. An estimate of fair market value may be founded either on precedent or extrapolation. Fair market value differs from the intrinsic value that an individual may place on the same asset based on their own preferences.
Since market transactions are often not observable for assets such as privately-held businesses and most personal and real property, FMV must be estimated. An estimate of Fair Market Value is usually subjective due to the circumstances of place, time, the existence of comparable precedents, and the evaluation principles of each involved person. Opinions on value are always based upon subjective interpretation of available information at the time of assessment. This is in contrast to an imposed value, in which a legal authority (law, tax regulation, court, etc.) sets an absolute value upon a product or a service.

In United States tax law, the definition of fair market value is found in the United States Supreme Court decision in the Cartwright case:
The fair market value is the price at which the property would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, neither being under any compulsion to buy or to sell and both having reasonable knowledge of relevant facts. The most common reference I can find to "Fair Price" is usually in conjunction with an organisation, government, or political entity. interfering with the free market to please a constituency. It is usually synonomous with imposed value. I have known many who were proud of their planes (rightly so) who indulged in vigorous and excellent marketing and held out for a "fair price" based on their idea of intrinsic value. Their planes have been for sale for many years now.

During those years They have been paying taxes, insurance, and hangar fees as well as the costs of marketing. When they finally sell these added costs will either decrease their profit or increase their loss "effective yield" .

So perhaps the initial question should have been, what will my effective yield be if I sell my RV 12 in todays market.

Sure 1 or 2 may sell for big bucks but they will either be show winning creampuffs or an uninformed buyer.

So I still think $40K-$50K (in todays market) tops thus the goal is to minimize your negative yield.
 
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Agree to Disagree

Well I have to agree to disagree with you Milt. The RV12 Kit was released April 2008. In 16 months 260 kits have been sold. We will have to make an educated guess where each kit is at in the build process. On Aug 12th Vans started selling the engine Kit. By the Aug 13th at 2pm West coast time when I ordered mine all 25 of the first batch of engines were sold out $250,000.00 in a day and a half. Anybody know how many RV9s, or 10s, were sold in the first 16 months after the release of those kits? I?ll bet you not 260. I would also speculate that at OSH next year there will be at least 50 RV12s there, probably more. So when people see that many planes at one location the going to become very interested. And most of these people are not going to have time or a shop to build their own RV12. If anything this will cause older RVs like the 3s, 4s, & 6s to lose some value because they will become even older technology. I think you guys are way underestimating the no medical option here. Also the 12 is going to open up a large new market of newbie pilots who are just plain scared of the other RVs, especially tail draggers. A good salesman is going to clean up with this plane. J
 
Well I have to agree to disagree with you Milt. The RV12 Kit was released April 2008. In 16 months 260 kits have been sold. We will have to make an educated guess where each kit is at in the build process. On Aug 12th Vans started selling the engine Kit. By the Aug 13th at 2pm West coast time when I ordered mine all 25 of the first batch of engines were sold out $250,000.00 in a day and a half. Anybody know how many RV9s, or 10s, were sold in the first 16 months after the release of those kits? I?ll bet you not 260. I would also speculate that at OSH next year there will be at least 50 RV12s there, probably more. So when people see that many planes at one location the going to become very interested. And most of these people are not going to have time or a shop to build their own RV12. If anything this will cause older RVs like the 3s, 4s, & 6s to lose some value because they will become even older technology. I think you guys are way underestimating the no medical option here. Also the 12 is going to open up a large new market of newbie pilots who are just plain scared of the other RVs, especially tail draggers. A good salesman is going to clean up with this plane. J

Can I get a big "Ah-men"

Many people at 65+ do not wish to spend 2500 hours building a plane just to find that when they get it done they can not pass the medical to fly it. Others want to fly a nice aircraft right now and with the RV-12 ELSA they know it was built just the way Van's said to so it is safe and sound. There will be no unsafe modifications like cutting out a big hunk of spar to run wires and pipes such that the wing may fall off or like two RV-8's we have here that have two extra fuel tank in the leading edge outside of the regular tanks for a total of 70 gallons of fuel, great for travel but was it ever engineered correctly?

Have a good day.

Best regards,
Vern
 
Strange.....

If anything this will cause older RVs like the 3s, 4s, & 6s to lose some value because they will become even older technology. I think you guys are way underestimating the no medical option here. Also the 12 is going to open up a large new market of newbie pilots who are just plain scared of the other RVs, especially tail draggers.

What make you think the the technology is newer in the RV12? It is just different so that the plane can preform a different mission.

Medical issues will be the biggest driving force behind LSA. I think that you are correct that some will look to go LSA because of it 'slower' performance.

Taildragger vs nose dragger may be an issue for some airplane buyers, but that will not drive them to buy LSA. The 6, 7, 8 and 9 come both ways.

Not trying to put a damper on anyone idea about making planes and selling them.

Kent
 
I think one of the benefits of owning a 12 is that they have removable wings.

In an area where hangar rental rates are very high, it offers a substantial savings for those who choose to trailer to the airport.

You could be talking about 5-7k/year.
 
I doubt that new RV-12s will sell in the $40-50K range, as Milt suggested. Very few builders are willing to take a 20-30% hit in materials fees for a plane that they just built, unless they are in some dire financial straits. I still see the $60-70K range, with it most likely being closer to $60K than $70K.

Any higher and the market will be saturated with pro-built RV-12s built buy retired guys that just like building, and are happy with an extra $10 per hour to supplement social security and their pensions. Van gives a 600-900 hour build time. With jigs and a pro builder who has done one before, I bet they could crank them out at 500-600 hours per plane.

The whole "newer technology" of the RV-12 lowering the value of other RVs doesn't make much sense to me. Newer technology won't change the 60+mph cruise deficit that the 12 has with all of the other RVs. If people are deciding between an RV-12 or an RV-6, there real question is whether they want an LSA or not.

In many ways, buying an experimental pre-built eliminates one of the arguments against chosing a non-LSA. We have all read stories or known people that spent years building a plane, only to lose their medical right before or right after finishing. Those stories are heartbreaking, considering all of the effort they put into their project. A small part of the reason I chose to build an LSA legal experimental is so I don't have to worry about this happening to me.

For those that are buying it is a lot simpler. If you have a medical, buy an RV6 if you want. If the time comes when you cannot pass a medical anymore, sell the 6, and use that money to buy a 12. No dealing with 2000+ hours of effort put into a project that you can no longer enjoy.No need to buy an RV-12 if you can get a 6 at the same price or less, unless you just like the 12 for reasons other than being an LSA.

The one big advantage I see for the RV12 is that they could almost completely take the prebuilt Zodiac 601XL experimental market. The RV-12 seemed like a better plane on paper before, and with the bad press Zodiacs got over the whole wing fold issue, I can't see why anyone would chose a Zodiac over an RV12. Nice Zodiacs used to be on the market for mid $60K and higher (assuming no auto-conversion engine). Those same planes are on the market now for LOW $50K to high $40K. Furthermore, even at that price, they are not selling.

At the end of the day, this is all speculation. It will be interesting to see how things turn out.
 
How Much?

I used to have an A&P that would always answer me with the same answer each time I asked how much it was going to cost to repair an airplane. So how much will a finished RV 12 sell for..."Answer this first, how long is a piece of string?" You know it all depends.

Jerry Martin
RV6A
N331RD
 
I have seen that one before it is not the second. There have been others advertising to build parts as well. Look at the posted date. It is a month old and not taken. Flight crafters is advertising a completed RV-12 for 85K and no takers yet. These adds do not set the price (or value). The price is set on each and every one of them just the minute someone writes a check. I do hope they go for 85k or more though.
 
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