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How many certified ifr are out there ?

avgas

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I cant find the thread about if you can have an ELSA ifr certified or not. I understand most would be in faster x country the rv9 or so.
Just wondering if anyone would like to quess on a percentage of rv12 (elsa or ab) that are ifr? or im i wasting my time looking? thanks
 
I cant find the thread about if you can have an ELSA ifr certified or not. I understand most would be in faster x country the rv9 or so.
Just wondering if anyone would like to quess on a percentage of rv12 (elsa or ab) that are ifr? or im i wasting my time looking? thanks

I'm not up on the ELSA rules, but I can answer your question for EAB: The answer is zero. There is no such thing as "IFR Certified" EAB. The FARs limit operations to day vfr, but most OpLimits contain a waiver, allowing night and/or IFR operations if equipped according to FAR 91.xxx. But there is no "IFR Certified" paperwork from the FAA. It's up to the owner/operator to determine if they meet the OpLimits for a certain type of operation.
 
From RV12is avionics order form: Note that the current Light Sport Aircraft standards (ELSA and SLSA) preclude operation in Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IMC). While aircraft licensed under the LSA standard may be operated "in the system" under Instrument Flight Rules, such as in a training environment, certification as LSA currently prohibits IMC operations. Also, note that EAB-licensed aircraft are not restricted in this fashion.

I'm going to build mine EAB and equip for lite IFR (ie. getting above/below benign cloud layers) with pretty conservative personal minimums....so in 2-3 years at least one will be IFR legal. Haha.
 
Yes... 91.205, so the builder would the DAR ask for a waiver when he stops out for the inspection. If its ELSA i bet vans would have to give approval first? (Assuming he meets 91.205) If thats the case, it could be very different from each FSDO district? thanks... I have an instrument rating and current, I also took the 2 day repairman inspection to do own condition reports on ELSA. thanks.
 
Thanks BTG...Im getting both Yes and No... the no outnumber the yes by a good margin.
I emailed my local FSDO two times now and they haven't answered. bet they wont .
I did just call on a RV9 this morning that was advertised as IFR certified (EAB)..... thanks
 
EAB could work also, just need to hire AP for condition report. Talking with Tangoflight ( school that builds them, did 8 or 9 so far maybe?) he can add the IFR package but pretty sure it would be just for training, no IMC. ELSA
 
My OLs allow night and IFR if properly equipped. My DAR provided me an email clearly stating that after I asked him to translate the convoluted FAA boiler plate.
 
FAA Order 8130.2J, Appendix D, Paragraph 49 allows:

"Instrument flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in §91.205(c) are installed, operational, compliant with the performance requirements of, and maintained per the applicable regulations. All maintenance or inspections of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records and include the following items: date, work performed, and name and certificate number of person returning aircraft to service. (49)"

This paragraph applies to operating limitations issued to aircraft certified under §21.191(b), (f), (g), (h), & (i). §21.191(i) being E-LSA
 
Mel, as just one of the many people who has asked this same question before, I just wanted to say thank you for patiently providing all of us with the proper regulatory answer every time it gets asked :)

-Bruce
 
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I'm not up on the ELSA rules, but I can answer your question for EAB: The answer is zero. There is no such thing as "IFR Certified" EAB. The FARs limit operations to day vfr, but most OpLimits contain a waiver, allowing night and/or IFR operations if equipped according to FAR 91.xxx. But there is no "IFR Certified" paperwork from the FAA. It's up to the owner/operator to determine if they meet the OpLimits for a certain type of operation.

FAA Order 8130.2J, Appendix D, Paragraph 49 allows:

"Instrument flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in §91.205(c) are installed, operational, compliant with the performance requirements of, and maintained per the applicable regulations. All maintenance or inspections of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records and include the following items: date, work performed, and name and certificate number of person returning aircraft to service. (49)"

This paragraph applies to operating limitations issued to aircraft certified under §21.191(b), (f), (g), (h), & (i). §21.191(i) being E-LSA


So...an EAB airplane doesn't have to be "certified" as IFR-capable but the required IFR instrumentation in it does?
 
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So...an EAB airplane doesn't have to be "certified" as IFR-capable but the required IFR instrumentation in it does?

Mostly, no. Transponders, and GPS used under IFR, must be TSO’d or have other FAA approval. Everything else, you’re on your own.
 
Wait....so ELSA can fly IFR if equipped/compliant?

FAA Order 8130.2J, Appendix D, Paragraph 49 allows:

"Instrument flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in §91.205(c) are installed, operational, compliant with the performance requirements of, and maintained per the applicable regulations. All maintenance or inspections of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records and include the following items: date, work performed, and name and certificate number of person returning aircraft to service. (49)"

This paragraph applies to operating limitations issued to aircraft certified under §21.191(b), (f), (g), (h), & (i). §21.191(i) being E-LSA

Thanks Mel- as a DAR I really appreciate your guidance.

This is probably the most confusing piece of the whole ELSA/EAB decision for me....thought I had it figured out after reading the Vans order for, but I guess not.

I take comfort in the fact that I'm not the only one confused by this. Haha.

Thanks again.
 
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