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  #31  
Old 02-03-2022, 05:01 PM
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M5fly M5fly is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineYoda View Post
This is why I find the FAA requirement for oxygen at various altitudes and durations so laughable. Someone who lives in Leadville and someone from Key West have the same legal requirements, but likely very different biological responses. Oxygen really should be required in conjunction with a pulse oximeter rather than an arbitrary altitude requirement.

I've lived at 5700 feet for 20 years and I've gotten altitude sickness once, and it totally sucked. I've also climbed 14ers with people who flew in from the coasts for a group event. Some were totally fine to the summit while some had to turn around, very sick, at 12000-13000 feet. Just saying "Oxygen for everyone" at a specific altitude completely ignores that there are some who might have real problems well before that altitude and may not be ready or prepared to deal with it.
I'd have to agree with this. Even people that live at altitude are affected differently. After living at 4700' for the past 4 years, routinely skiing and biking above 8000', and routinely flying at 9.5-12.5k I've found myself to be very tolerant to the lack of oxygen and have yet to experience hypoxia symptoms. But that doesn't mean it won't happen someday. The biggest difference I notice is how much quicker energy is zapped when flying above 10k. 5-6 hours at those altitudes without supplemental oxygen and I'm beat.
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  #32  
Old 02-03-2022, 09:01 PM
rmarshall234 rmarshall234 is offline
 
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Default Superman gets hypoxic

Back in 2005 while teaching skydiving at Skydive Elsinore we had a student come through the program that was quickly given the nickname Clark Kent. Late 20s, 6'3'', 220lbs, non smoker, handsome and in incredible physical condition. Picture Christopher Reeve in the late 70s. On one of our jumps the entire rest of our twin otter load was doing a big-way formation with a DC-3 in trail. 50 people from two planes making one jump together and him and I making our own afterwards. It took a long time to get to jump altitude - 14,000msl - with the DC-3 lagging behind and then forming up and then just when they were ready to jump ATC put us on a traffic hold. We ended up being at or near 14Kft for a long time. Let's just call it 29 minutes. I was beginning to experience light symptoms of hypoxia - a flush feeling and anxiety are my first two symptoms - but no vision symptoms yet. Being concerned about hypoxia I started querying Clark and educating him about hypoxia. He'd never heard of it before. When he started getting euphoric and then his lips took on a blue tinge I called off the jump and told the pilot we were going to land with the airplane. He insisted he was perfectly fine and was clearly disappointed but didn't put up an argument. As we started descending and his O2 saturation level started returning to normal and then 5 minutes on the ground, he was an instant convert. We gave it another 20 minutes and then went back up and made the jump and he did great. He became the hypoxia spokesman for the dropzone after that. "Hey look, if it can happen to me..." he would tell people.
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  #33  
Old 02-03-2022, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wawrzynskivp View Post
Maybe just me, but link doesn't load.
This might work:

https://youtu.be/fZdOcasg-FA
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  #34  
Old 02-04-2022, 05:20 AM
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Captain_John Captain_John is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wawrzynskivp View Post
Maybe just me, but link doesn't load.
I think I fixed it...

John
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  #35  
Old 02-04-2022, 06:56 AM
swjohnsey swjohnsey is online now
 
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Can hyperventilation delay hyopxia?
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  #36  
Old 02-04-2022, 07:27 AM
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MacCool MacCool is online now
 
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Originally Posted by swjohnsey View Post
Can hyperventilation delay hyopxia?
No. But blowing off CO2 can come with its own set of symptoms, albeit non-life-threatening ones.
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  #37  
Old 02-04-2022, 07:41 AM
wawrzynskivp wawrzynskivp is offline
 
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Location: Incline Village Nv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmarshall234 View Post
Back in 2005 while teaching skydiving at Skydive Elsinore we had a student come through the program that was quickly given the nickname Clark Kent. Late 20s, 6'3'', 220lbs, non smoker, handsome and in incredible physical condition. Picture Christopher Reeve in the late 70s. On one of our jumps the entire rest of our twin otter load was doing a big-way formation with a DC-3 in trail. 50 people from two planes making one jump together and him and I making our own afterwards. It took a long time to get to jump altitude - 14,000msl - with the DC-3 lagging behind and then forming up and then just when they were ready to jump ATC put us on a traffic hold. We ended up being at or near 14Kft for a long time. Let's just call it 29 minutes. I was beginning to experience light symptoms of hypoxia - a flush feeling and anxiety are my first two symptoms - but no vision symptoms yet. Being concerned about hypoxia I started querying Clark and educating him about hypoxia. He'd never heard of it before. When he started getting euphoric and then his lips took on a blue tinge I called off the jump and told the pilot we were going to land with the airplane. He insisted he was perfectly fine and was clearly disappointed but didn't put up an argument. As we started descending and his O2 saturation level started returning to normal and then 5 minutes on the ground, he was an instant convert. We gave it another 20 minutes and then went back up and made the jump and he did great. He became the hypoxia spokesman for the dropzone after that. "Hey look, if it can happen to me..." he would tell people.
Kudos to Marshall for not only being prepared to recognize early onset Hypoxia, but also for having the moral courage to make a very disappointing decision for a large group! It's one thing to understand what the right thing is, it's a whole other thing to do it.

Safety is no accident
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Last edited by wawrzynskivp : 02-04-2022 at 08:37 AM.
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  #38  
Old 02-04-2022, 08:22 PM
rmarshall234 rmarshall234 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wawrzynskivp View Post
Kudos to Marshall for not only being prepared to recognize early onset Hypoxia, but also for having the moral courage to make a very disappointing decision for a large group! It's one thing to understand what the right thing is, it's a whole other thing to do it.

Safety is no accident
Thank you for the kind words. To be clear, the 50 experienced jumpers were all licensed, had their own jumpmaster, and continued with the jump. I have no doubt that most were hypoxic to some degree. It was only my student and I that returned with the airplane.

Having said that, I am the guy you mention with the moral courage and have demonstrated it on multiple occasions. It doesn't seem complex to me. When lives are at risk you do the right thing, you step up and you speak out and the consequences be damned.

Good luck with your efforts. From your list of accomplishments and credentials you clearly are making a difference and you are right...Safety is no accident.
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  #39  
Old 02-05-2022, 08:50 AM
NewbRVator NewbRVator is offline
 
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Location: CA
Posts: 286
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Another method for induced hypoxemia: I had a boss who literally sucked the oxygen out of the room. 2 minutes with the guy and everyone in his presence would be gasping for breath. The only recourse for survival was an emergency exit to the bathroom or an important private phone call. Probably overall more dangerous than true hypoxia but just as effective training.
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