Help with RV flight training

Folks,

I have officially reached my wits end and I am reaching out for help.

Our family has an RV-8, N248DF. It was built by Scott Farnsworth in 2013 and previously owned by my girlfriend's dad, and after he passed away we inherited this amazing airplane.

He raced it a Reno, he used it for aerobatics and dogfighting, and he used it to show me I was not as much of a tough guy as I thought when his daughter and I first began dating. It was also involved in a mid-air in 2017 that both pilots survived!

Point is, this airplane has a history, we love this airplane, and I want to add to that history by using it to take his daughter somewhere so I can propose to her.

The plane (and us!) are based out of Phoenix (KDVT) and I am looking for someone with time in an RV to take me up in our -8, or their -4, -6 or -7 for an hour or two of familiarity and transition training (mostly pattern stuff, stalls, approaches, landings) before I go up solo in the -8 for more hours to get comfortable before I take anyone else up in it with me. I have TW time already so I understand the basics, but also when I ask around for someone to do some training in this plane with me, they are all TW people and they really insist on three point landings which...I do not want to do in this plane.

This plane as a Mattituck IO-360 w/ high compression cylinders, a Catto 3 blade climb prop, inverted fuel/oil, smoke kit (uninstalled), a Dynon Skyview, and rear seat primary flight controls with the little mushroom button rudder pedals. We have good checklists for the airplane, it just underwent a condition inspection a few months ago and passed with flying colors, and it is running like a champ.

I just finished a bachelor's in aerospace engineering using my GI Bill and money is *tight*, so although I wish it was possible, spending 5k on flights, hotels, food, transition training and instruction from someone in Texas or Oregon is...just not an option for me at the moment.

I have already spent a few hours in our -8, and another hour in a friend's -6A, so I have felt the snappiness of the RVs, but I have not logged any landings in either. I have flown multiple approaches to short final, done basic maneuvers and cross country stuff, but always relinquished controls before landing.

Anyways, if anyone knows anyone, I am available literally every morning of every day of the week. I am extremely willing to learn and I am very patient and attentive, I used to work in Naval Special Warfare, and I recently made it through the interview process at SWA so I start in the D225 program in October!

If you can be of any help, please reach out!

Thank you very much!!

Just a few suggestions.
1. Do you intend to insure this airplane? If the answer is ‘yes’, call a broker familiar with RV-8’s (I recommend Jenny/Leah at Gallagher agency (they advertise here on VAF)). They will most likely tell you what minimum dual the insurance companies will require to insure you.
2. Getting dual in someone else’s RV is tricky. Probably no insurance coverage, and unless it is absolutely free the owner will need an FAA LODA (waiver).
3. You’re going to ask a cfi to sign you off as having some level of competency. This is a bit tricky. You hire him, you’re the boss. But, most cfi’s have a sense of obligation, and if they think ‘competent RV pilots’ can do 3 pointers, then that’s what they’ll demand. I suggest you ‘go with the flow’. CFI’s are reluctant to sign on to give training when the pilot wants to dictate what will or will not be required.
4. It’s not inexpensive, but Bruce Bohannon in TX has a great reputation for RV-8 training.

I'm in Southern California, so not much help for you there.

But regarding 3 point landings, any instructor worth their salt is going to insist you are competent in both 3 point and wheel landings as part of either a type checkout and/or a tailwheel enorsement.

I may have missed it, but do you have a tailwheel endorsement? You can't act as PIC without it, and 14 CFR 61.31(i) requires both wheel and 3 point landings.

As a matter of professionalism, I always expose transitioning pilots to both types of landings. If they prefer one over the other, that's totally fine, but I have to see competency in the non-preferred landing method as well before I can consider a checkout complete.

--Ron

Welcome to VAF

Curtis, welcome aboard the good ship VAF

Take a look at the link, you might find someone ??

If a trip to Texas is within reason, check out Bruce Bohannon.

https://vansairforce.net/transition_training.htm

Three point

I’ve given several checkouts in 8’s in the past and I’d say the instructors are right. I’d start with calm wind mornings and three point landings until they are solid. After that I’d transition to wheel landings in the same calm conditions until they are very solid. It’s not the touchdown that’s the issue with wheel landings, it’s the slowing down and transitioning to the tail down that has the most risk.

You’ll most likely grow to like the wheel landings better and will be able to handle much more wind and adverse conditions using that technique, but the three point is much less likely to cause a runway excursion while learning the machine. You’re already in the tail down attitude and there’s less energy in the system. Additionally you touch down slower so it’s quicker to a stop.

A student of mine began to lose control on an initial wheel landing attempt and the little rudder pucks were very difficult to use and keep us out of the dirt. After we got back to the hangar we laughed because I had bent the little rods into a horseshoe during the attempt to keep it straight and override his front seat inputs. Start with three point and work to wheel landings. Eventually you’ll do almost exclusively wheel landings.

Good luck. You’ll love the 8.

Don’t be adverse to varied types of landings. The person checking you out is trying to get you proficient that’s why they want you to do wheel and 3 points. Don’t put someone you care about in the airplane and just be “qualified” to fly it. You need to be proficient.

I know RV 8 you speak of…

Have you tried sonny weller at KDVT. He knows the 8 and will certainly get you familiar with both types of landing and all flap comfigurations. Assuming you already have your TW endorsement.

I don't know Sonny Weller, but the name has come up here before with regards to tailwheel training in Phoenix and Deer Valley specifically. Probably worth a call.



Have you shopped for insurance yet and understand any requirements that might impose?

Does your -8 have rear brakes?

I don't know that you could really land an 8 with the mushroom rear pedals from the back. Not much in the way of feel, and very little control authority. No rear brakes makes it really dicey should it get sideways. If the back seater bends that rod, it could jam and you'd really be in for a ride.

My hangar mate and I have been experimenting with him in the back. He can takeoff using the rears, but he doesn't think landing is a good idea.

Just get in it and fly, or go to Bruce in TX.

Many good suggestions so far.

My insurance company (Gallagher) required I do transition training. I did three days in an RV-7. Focused mostly on 3 point landings.

My RV-8 was challenging for me to consistently land 3 point. I read a thread titled, “Landing an RV-8” and my landings improved significantly.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=16788

moespeeds said:

If the back seater bends that rod, it could jam and you'd really be in for a ride.

Click to expand...

Some folks have put a dowel in the WD-829 pushrod to prevent it from bending.

I used Bruce Bohannon in TX. worth every penny. Even with 30,000 plus hours and 3000 + tailwheel time, my insurance still required at least an hour in either a 6, 7, or 8. The 8 is a little different than the other RV's because of the spring steel gear. Bruce will teach you all the quirks about the 8, particularly in a cross wind. To my knowledge he is the only person who will put you in the front seat of a 8 for training.

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