What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Rv8 or SPA Cougar

1 Task

Member
HI, Wondering if anyone has ever considered the hopefully soon to released Sport Performance Aircraft tandem Cougar. Seems to be a pull rivet 1,000 hour build RV8 competitor. Im a soon to be buyer(builder) in the market and waiting to see this aircraft, and if the proven Vans RV8 will be updated like the RV-10 with match drilled holes/or maybe see what the new RV15 would be....

Wanted to see what everyone's thought were. Ive been drooling over RV4/8 builds but these are older designs PLANS and not as updated as an RV12/14 kit....and now with this SPA Cougar on the horizon with pulled rivets and possible easier construction/under 1,000 hours to fly makes it an attractive option.

Thoughts and opinions??!!
 
Well, it's going to be more like an LSA RV-4 with appropriately reduced performance. I would say that it's nothing close to an RV-8. Lightyears apart.

But it might be roughly equivalent to a tandem taildragger RV-12. And as such, something I'd have been interested in back in '12 before I started my RV-3 project. But even at if it did fill that niche, remember that an RV-12 handles beautifully; will the Cougar handle as delightfully? At least hold off till that's been ascertained.

As for taking under 1,000 hours to build, I'll be glad to place a bet that a first-time builder will take longer.

Dave
 
Not an LSA

Well - considering the cougar is slated to have a IO-370, it certainly won't be an LSA. I think an RV-8 comparison is apt. Here's some notes: https://flywithspa.com/cougar-designers-desk-1/


BUT - the RV-8 is an actual product/project you can buy and build right now. Who knows when the Cougar will be released and what teething pains it'll have. It looks like it could be awesome, I agree. But if you're hoping to start this year, I have my doubts.
 
HI, Wondering if anyone has ever considered the hopefully soon to released Sport Performance Aircraft tandem Cougar. Seems to be a pull rivet 1,000 hour build RV8 competitor. Im a soon to be buyer(builder) in the market and waiting to see this aircraft, and if the proven Vans RV8 will be updated like the RV-10 with match drilled holes/or maybe see what the new RV15 would be....

Wanted to see what everyone's thought were. Ive been drooling over RV4/8 builds but these are older designs PLANS and not as updated as an RV12/14 kit....and now with this SPA Cougar on the horizon with pulled rivets and possible easier construction/under 1,000 hours to fly makes it an attractive option.

Thoughts and opinions??!!

How do you define "soon to be released?" The Cougar may look good on paper, but we may all grow old waiting for one to actually build.

The RV8 does have matched drill holes, but are not final drilled(punched), unlike the RV10, RV14 and perhaps others. An update with that and other refinements would be welcome.
 
How do you define "soon to be released?" The Cougar may look good on paper, but we may all grow old waiting for one to actually build.

The RV8 does have matched drill holes, but are not final drilled(punched), unlike the RV10, RV14 and perhaps others. An update with that and other refinements would be welcome.


I agree...I listen to SPA on eaa and who knows when but with aviation "soon to be" to me means with a year or 2 lol....I want to start building soon so i can enjoy the building process with my kids before there too cool for dad lol I love the RV8 and really hope vans refreshes it. I listen to Vans on EAA back in jan and i cant help but feeling with the refresh on the -10 they might update the rv-8 plans or try to refresh the popular models to keep them attractive...not they need to but it would be nice. As a first time builder if i did go with -8 id probably go with the quick build but reading about the -14 and the refinement in that kit keeps me bouncing back and forth lol
 
The current Cougar design is pretty similar to the 8. In fact, Dan Wesemean (Panther/Cougar designer) compares the two in this EAA webinar. The Cougar info starts around 41 minutes into the presentation. In that same webinar, he states he hopes to have the prototype flying this year (2021).
 
Last edited:
Don’t let pulled v driven rivets decide your choice. I much prefer driven and there is nothing hard about learning to use them.
 
Riveting is probably <2% of the overall activity in a build.
Waaay more important is the overall quality and completeness of the kit components, fit of parts, quality of documentation, support, etc.

If there is one huge advantage to nearly every Van's model, it is that thousands have gone before you and the answer to nearly any question is right here.

The only real advantage to pulled rivets is that you can do them all solo. An RV will occasionally require a helper, but not often.
 
I agree...I listen to SPA on eaa and who knows when but with aviation "soon to be" to me means with a year or 2 lol....I want to start building soon so i can enjoy the building process with my kids before there too cool for dad lol I love the RV8 and really hope vans refreshes it. I listen to Vans on EAA back in jan and i cant help but feeling with the refresh on the -10 they might update the rv-8 plans or try to refresh the popular models to keep them attractive...not they need to but it would be nice. As a first time builder if i did go with -8 id probably go with the quick build but reading about the -14 and the refinement in that kit keeps me bouncing back and forth lol

Can't speak from experience on -14, but the -8 is a wonderful plane. I'm sure the -14 is, too, and probably an easier build from the updated design. I very much appreciate the spaciousness of the tandem seating (I'm never rubbing shoulders) and the visibility from both sides. The downside is reduced instrument panel space, your rear seater has the pleasure of looking at the back of your head and managing w&b may be an issue with a heavy rear. Trade-offs you have to consider.
 
RV vs ANYTHING else..........

The current Cougar design is pretty similar to the 8. In fact, Dan Wesemean (Panther/Cougar designer) compares the two in this EAA webinar. The Cougar info starts around 41 minutes into the presentation. In that same webinar, he states he hopes to have the prototype flying this year (2021).

I guess the decision needs to be weighed along several lines.

As of today, there are 10,877 of the various models of Vans RV aircraft that have been built and are flying! That is quite the testament to the design and its popularity. Let me look: how man of the Cougars are flying? Oh, yeah: none yet. OK: that would influence my decision.

Pulled rivets as opposed to driven: are they faster? Yeah, maybe. Are they flush or round head? If they are round head it will look like a factory-built. Look at a Cessna wing (or fuselage) and compare that to an RV. Smoooooooth. If they are flush, every one of those holes still needs to be drilled, deburred, countersunk and a rivet pulled. Same with a driven rivet and MAY take a little longer but once you get good at driving rivets it will be a new talent you are good at and can be proud of! And most rivets can be driven without help. And once you get good at it, they go quickly. Driving rivets is not what takes time in a build...... I don't want to say ANYone can pull rivets but, I mean, they make furniture with pulled rivets. :D

Have a question on a construction problem you having trouble with? Call the factory. Well, you can do that with an RV....they will chat with you....but this forum is a gold mine of information. And there is likely someone close to you who is in the process of building an RV-something. And most builders will be way more than happy to show you around their project. Letsee: Cougar. Maybe not....

OK: How does the Cougar fly? What are it's flying characteristics? I suppose you could extrapolate from the Panther but the RV-3 and the RV-4 fly differently. I would venture to say (ask anyone on this forum) that the RV series.......any one of them.....may be the best flying aircraft in the air. Go 200+ kts and stall at 45-50: does the Cougar do that? Does it fly....as an aviation writer once reported...as close to the characteristics of an F4U Corsair as anything else on the civilian market? Why do so many ex-military pilots fly RVs? Hmmmmmm.

I think those are just a few of the things you need to consider. When I was trying to decide, there were not that many choices and information on building was through the factory or local builders. I cannot tell you how happy I am....for SO many different reasons.....I chose the RV-4. Would I do it again? Oh, yeah! But I'm into flying the one I have...... And back when I was a kid, there was just no such thing as matched-hole drilling. It was done from a pile of formed aluminum and a big roll of plans.....back when I was a kid....and it did eventually get built.....;););)

I suppose you could have guessed, asking on this forum, what would be the answers you would get. Are we biased? OH, yeah: but for a multitude of reasons. Most people who build an RV do not give them up.....unless they are about to or in the process of building another one....!

IMHO........:)
 
Last edited:
I guess the decision needs to be weighed along several lines.

As of today, there are 10,877 of the various models of Vans RV aircraft that have been built and are flying! That is quite the testament to the design and its popularity. Let me look: how man of the Cougars are flying? Oh, yeah: none yet. OK: that would influence my decision.

Pulled rivets as opposed to driven: are they faster? Yeah, maybe. Are they flush or round head? If they are round head it will look like a factory-built. Look at a Cessna wing (or fuselage) and compare that to an RV. Smoooooooth. If they are flush, every one of those holes still needs to be drilled, deburred, countersunk and a rivet pulled. Same with a driven rivet and MAY take a little longer but once you get good at driving rivets it will be a new talent you are good at and can be proud of! And most rivets can be driven without help. And once you get good at it, they go quickly. Driving rivets is not what takes time in a build...... I don't want to say ANYone can pull rivets but, I mean, they make furniture with pulled rivets. :D

Have a question on a construction problem you having trouble with? Call the factory. Well, you can do that with an RV....they will chat with you....but this forum is a gold mine of information. And there is likely someone close to you who is in the process of building an RV-something. And most builders will be way more than happy to show you around their project. Letsee: Cougar. Maybe not....

OK: How does the Cougar fly? What are it's flying characteristics? I suppose you could extrapolate from the Panther but the RV-3 and the RV-4 fly differently. I would venture to say (ask anyone on this forum) that the RV series.......any one of them.....may be the best flying aircraft in the air. Go 200+ kts and stall at 45-50: does the Cougar do that? Does it fly....as an aviation writer once reported...as close to the characteristics of an F4U Corsair as anything else on the civilian market? Why do so many ex-military pilots fly RVs? Hmmmmmm.

I think those are just a few of the things you need to consider. When I was trying to decide, there were not that many choices and information on building was through the factory or local builders. I cannot tell you how happy I am....for SO many different reasons.....I chose the RV-4. Would I do it again? Oh, yeah! But I'm into flying the one I have...... And back when I was a kid, there was just no such thing as matched-hole drilling. It was done from a pile of formed aluminum and a big roll of plans.....back when I was a kid....and it did eventually get built.....;););)

I suppose you could have guessed, asking on this forum, what would be the answers you would get. Are we biased? OH, yeah: but for a multitude of reasons. Most people who build an RV do not give them up.....unless they are about to or in the process of building another one....!

IMHO........:)


Thank you! I kept thinking that pulled rivets would make it easier but it sounds like from you and others that, that isnt the biggest deal. I def agree that having alot of planes flyin is a gigantic plus!
 
I def agree that having alot of planes flyin is a gigantic plus!

Not just for the design/designer, but the support base too.

And the fact whatever (---relatively few---) issues that have cropped up have been addressed and the fix is out there.
 
Back
Top