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FAA ADS-B Avionics System Check

Just got my updated report back from Jim after setting 1E-7 and ADS-B+ and I passed with flying colors. No issues whatsoever.

Thanks Jim and thanks Steve for helping us get this ironed out and compliant!

I owe Jim an apology. I assumed incorrectly that he was here to trap us but in reality he was here to help. Jim I publicly apologize.

Old settings ("1E-5" and "ADS-B"):

23k6bl3.png


New settings ("1E-7" and "ADS-B+"):

25ktxr8.png
 
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MarkW said:
Pat,
I double checked my harness spread sheet this morning.

I do not use the RS232 #1 out on the GTN
RS232 #2 out feeds the GTX and will configure to ADS-B +
On my GTN the RS232 #1 would only configure to ADS-B and not the +
I believe the drawing shows using #2 and not #1 for the GTX.
Then the #3 is used to feed the G3X.

I am hoping this mornings report from this weekends flights shows compliance.
Click to expand...

Mark,

On my GTN 650, I have the GTX 23 wired to serial port #1 and it is configured for ADS-B+. As long as the ADS-B+ setting is available, I do not think it matters which serial port on the GTN you connect the xponder to.
 
This site is so full of useful information and helpful people.

I got my first report back and my system failed only in the NACv category. Went into the xpdr and changed velocity tp 10MPS and submitted request for another report. This morning Jim sent it back saying my system looks good now. No big RED blocks.

I thought at first this was a computer generated report but now having read the links I see that Jim is individually doing all this for us.

Many thanks Jim.
 
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Brantel said:
Just got my updated report back from Jim after setting 1E-7 and ADS-B+ and I passed with flying colors. No issues whatsoever.

Thanks Jim and thanks Steve for helping us get this ironed out and compliant!

I owe Jim an apology. I assumed incorrectly that he was here to trap us but in reality he was here to help. Jim I publicly apologize.

Old settings ("1E-5" and "ADS-B"):

23k6bl3.png


New settings ("1E-7" and "ADS-B+"):

25ktxr8.png
Click to expand...


No worries Brian. As the old cliche goes "I'm with the government and here to help" ;)
 
Skyview Fail

I got my report back. So what's the Skyview solution to a failed SIL and SDA? I have an all-Skyview system (ADSB, GPS, TRANSPONDER) my SIL and SDA values fail with "0"'s as output.
 
apkp777 said:
I got my report back. So what's the Skyview solution to a failed SIL and SDA? I have an all-Skyview system (ADSB, GPS, TRANSPONDER) my SIL and SDA values fail with "0"'s as output.
Click to expand...

I would say that you can expect those to fail due to the fact that you do not have a position source that meets the 2020 requirements.
 
Brantel said:
I would say that you can expect those to fail due to the fact that you do not have a position source that meets the 2020 requirements.
Click to expand...

So, is only an "IFR" and TSO'd GPS allowed for position output? I was under the impression that was not going to be the case. I know you are thinking "dude, where have you been". Well, just not paying attention. I actually, find it VERY difficult to believe that all of GA will even come close to complying with 2020 requirements.
 
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Have Navworx ADS600B, with recent factory update but without the certified GPS.

Report showed failed SIL, 100%.
Report showed failed eVAL and eVAL NIC, 2.13%
Everything else passed.

I don't know what this means, but intend to get the unit updated to the certified GPS prior to 2020.
 
After my setting corrections I am now compliant.

Brian,
When I checked my GTN configuration I was not 100% sure I had the GTX connected to the #2 or #1 port.
I checked the configurations available for the #1 out and ADS-B + was not available. Only ADS-B. I did have the + available on #2.
Luckily when I got to the office this morning and checked I found that indeed I did have it connected to #2.
 
Mine is also all fixed and in compliance now. This is after changing the serial out to ADSB + and changing the 330 to IE-7
 
apkp777 said:
So, is only an "IFR" and TSO'd GPS allowed for position output? I was under the impression that was not going to be the case. I know you are thinking "dude, where have you been". Well, just not paying attention. I actually, find it VERY difficult to believe that all of GA will even come close to complying with 2020 requirements.
Click to expand...

Currently for 2020, yep the position source must meet certain TSO requirements.

Details are in here:

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%2020-165.pdf

This has been and continues to be very confusing.

GA will have a choice....either comply or stay away from airspace that requires a transponder. Hopefully the number of lower cost position sources that meet the requirements will continue to climb and the competition will drive the cost down.
 
MarkW said:
After my setting corrections I am now compliant.

Brian,
When I checked my GTN configuration I was not 100% sure I had the GTX connected to the #2 or #1 port.
I checked the configurations available for the #1 out and ADS-B + was not available. Only ADS-B. I did have the + available on #2.
Luckily when I got to the office this morning and checked I found that indeed I did have it connected to #2.
Click to expand...

Mark,

Glad you are now compliant as well.

Was it possible that you had port #2 configured for ADS-B+ when you tried to also select that option on port #1? If so, many times these variables can only be set to one port at a time so that may be why you were not able to select it on port #1.

I verified that mine is on port#1 and it is set to ADS-B+. If the above is not the case, we may have different firmware.
 
Got my report back from Jim this morning as well (good to go). Kudos to Jim for doing this, looks like it has helped a lot of people so far, me included! :)

I'm just wondering whether this report (5 pages) should be included in the airplane records somewhere and, if so, where? POH, perhaps?
 
Brian,
I was thinking that maybe we have a firmware difference but you may be correct that I had already used ADS-B + for the #2 port.

Good news is that we are compliant.

For those that thought they were anonymous while using 1200 that will not be the case with ADS-B. They will have all the info they need if they decide to use it.
 
Traffic Display Issues

Jay, I've looked at your data a little closer after having caught up on report requests this morning. I see nothing apparent that would prevent your system from triggering TIS-B traffic, meaning your ADS-B data quality is sufficient to establish you as a client to receive all traffic information from the ground system (TIS-B/ADS-R). I'll keep looking and let you know if any light bulbs go off.
 
apkp777 said:
So, is only an "IFR" and TSO'd GPS allowed for position output? I was under the impression that was not going to be the case. I know you are thinking "dude, where have you been". Well, just not paying attention. I actually, find it VERY difficult to believe that all of GA will even come close to complying with 2020 requirements.
Click to expand...

This is half true. The position source must meet a TSO standard. But it is not the "ifr" TSO, e.g., there is no database to worry about. I see one UAT manufacturer offering a TSO gps source for a $1K upgrade. Not cheap, but a lot less than the ifr gps boxes.
 
Non-TSO'd GPS on eAB & eLSA aircraft

apkp777 said:
So, is only an "IFR" and TSO'd GPS allowed for position output? I was under the impression that was not going to be the case. I know you are thinking "dude, where have you been". Well, just not paying attention. I actually, find it VERY difficult to believe that all of GA will even come close to complying with 2020 requirements.
Click to expand...

Check out page 62 of this article: http://www.brightcopy.net/allen/avne/51-6/#/58
 
Just ran the check on my ADS-B and all clean now red :)

My Navworks has the latest software update, but will wait for the compliant version in the future. I was amazed that I received the report back from the email request in less than a few hours.
.
 
jdm117 said:
Check out page 62 of this article: http://www.brightcopy.net/allen/avne/51-6/#/58
Click to expand...

jdm117: I wasn't intending on getting a certified GPS for a couple of years yet. This article troubles me. Am I correct in understanding that although I do receive traffic and weather, ATC can't use my ADS-B info for flight following purposes?

Do I need a certified GPS before 2020 to get full service (where available) now?

My errors (N374RS - 20140529_A4442F_1198575)
SIL: 100%
eVAL and eVAL NIC: 2.13%

And what are eVAL and eVAL NIC all about?
 
revenson said:
jdm117: I wasn't intending on getting a certified GPS for a couple of years yet. This article troubles me. Am I correct in understanding that although I do receive traffic and weather, ATC can't use my ADS-B info for flight following purposes?

Do I need a certified GPS before 2020 to get full service (where available) now?

My errors (N374RS - 20140529_A4442F_1198575)
SIL: 100%
eVAL and eVAL NIC: 2.13%

And what are eVAL and eVAL NIC all about?
Click to expand...

I think that's correct, ATC will not use uncertified data for traffic separation.
Until 2020 you should still be able to get conventional, radar-based, flight following. Living where you do there may well be places where radar can't see you, especially down low.
 
revenson said:
jdm117: I wasn't intending on getting a certified GPS for a couple of years yet. This article troubles me. Am I correct in understanding that although I do receive traffic and weather, ATC can't use my ADS-B info for flight following purposes?

Do I need a certified GPS before 2020 to get full service (where available) now?

My errors (N374RS - 20140529_A4442F_1198575)
SIL: 100%
eVAL and eVAL NIC: 2.13%

And what are eVAL and eVAL NIC all about?
Click to expand...

No, you're set until 2020. ATC will use your transponder to provide services.
 
jdm117 said:
No, you're set until 2020. ATC will use your transponder to provide services.
Click to expand...

Yes. But, my understanding was that if ADS-B ground stations are within range, and once the centers have the equipment, ATC could begin, before 2020, to use ADS-B info to provide flight following where traditional radar coverage is obstructed or aircraft too low. (My example is western Nevada, where if I'm not above about 14,500, Oakland center can't follow me on radar.)

If this is true, and if one needs a certified ADS-B/GPS to take advantage of this additional capability, I for one, will be more inclined to get my GPS certified now.

Can you comment on this?
 
revenson said:
Yes. But, my understanding was that if ADS-B ground stations are within range, and once the centers have the equipment, ATC could begin, before 2020, to use ADS-B info to provide flight following where traditional radar coverage is obstructed or aircraft too low. (My example is western Nevada, where if I'm not above about 14,500, Oakland center can't follow me on radar.)

If this is true, and if one needs a certified ADS-B/GPS to take advantage of this additional capability, I for one, will be more inclined to get my GPS certified now.

Can you comment on this?
Click to expand...

You are correct. If an ATC facility has ADS-B and it provides coverage that radar cannot (or radar is down) within a service volume it will be used. This is known as ADS-B "only" airspace and your GPS would need to be certified to TSO-C129/196 or 145/146 (WAAS) to qualify for ATC services.
 
Got my report today and NO RED BOXES! :D Mine is a DYNON Skyview system (Xponder and ADSB module) connected to a Garmin 430W.

jdm117 - THANKS for doing this for us. I bet you are getting swamped by the requests.

:cool:
 
GalinHdz said:
Got my report today and NO RED BOXES! :D Mine is a DYNON Skyview system (Xponder and ADSB module) connected to a Garmin 430W.

jdm117 - THANKS for doing this for us. I bet you are getting swamped by the requests.

:cool:
Click to expand...

My pleasure. Just connecting the dots and trying to keep up. :D
 
jdm117 said:
Update: Over 120 report requests processed since noon on 5/30. And working together we've resolved issues for 27 ADS-B installations. Thanks for everyone's help!
Click to expand...

Jim,

Got any estimate of how many of the 120+ reports had issues?
 
Brantel said:
Jim,

Got any estimate of how many of the 120+ reports had issues?
Click to expand...

I'd estimate that approximately 75 had issues. Some were reported as non-compliant due to SIL/SDA = zero but this is expected (and complies with FAA guidance) for those with uncertified GPS.
 
One thing I would like to see from the GPS/XPDR/UAT vendors is some clear directions on how to set up the various parameters after installation. The install manuals from most suppliers (if not all) leave the installer guessing on what the settings should be (hence the reason many folks get it wrong). I get calls all the time asking "what should I set xxx to" and to be honest with many I'm not sure what to tell them as the manuals don't say and I'm not sure either.
 
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I have two skyviews, Dynon transponder and GTN650.

Red boxes are:

Missing Elements NACp 3.05% failure

Integrity and Accuracy: % Fail 3.05%, SIL 3.05%, SDA 3.05%, NIC_SVT 3.05%, eVAL 2.32%, eVal NIC 2.31%. Lower chart: NIC 7.8%, SIL 2.9%, SDA 1.9%

Other Checks: Moded 3A 1.89%

Anyone know what I should be looking at to get rid of all this red?

Thanks all.
 
Bob'sRV6A said:
I have two skyviews, Dynon transponder and GTN650.

Red boxes are:

Missing Elements NACp 3.05% failure

Integrity and Accuracy: % Fail 3.05%, SIL 3.05%, SDA 3.05%, NIC_SVT 3.05%, eVAL 2.32%, eVal NIC 2.31%. Lower chart: NIC 7.8%, SIL 2.9%, SDA 1.9%

Other Checks: Moded 3A 1.89%

Anyone know what I should be looking at to get rid of all this red?

Thanks all.
Click to expand...

1 - Are you getting ADS-B weather on your display?
2 - Is your GTN650 configured for ADS-B out and wired directly to the transponder pin #3 via a 1.2K Ohm resistor?

REF: Skyiew Installation Manual Pg 11-4

:cool:
 
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Bob'sRV6A said:
I have two skyviews, Dynon transponder and GTN650.

Red boxes are:

Missing Elements NACp 3.05% failure

Integrity and Accuracy: % Fail 3.05%, SIL 3.05%, SDA 3.05%, NIC_SVT 3.05%, eVAL 2.32%, eVal NIC 2.31%. Lower chart: NIC 7.8%, SIL 2.9%, SDA 1.9%

Other Checks: Moded 3A 1.89%

Anyone know what I should be looking at to get rid of all this red?

Thanks all.
Click to expand...

Bob, I'll take another look at your data in the AM & see if it'll provide us clues on a direction to head to get you in the green.
 
Haven't checked the Wx yet but according to Stein's wiring diagram, the GTN650 is wired directly to the Dynon transponder through the 1.21 K ohm resistor per instructions. I'll check the setup on the 650 tomorrow.
And thanks Jim for all you are doing here--we all really appreciate it.
 
Bob'sRV6A said:
Haven't checked the Wx yet but according to Stein's wiring diagram, the GTN650 is wired directly to the Dynon transponder through the 1.21 K ohm resistor per instructions. I'll check the setup on the 650 tomorrow.
And thanks Jim for all you are doing here--we all really appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Bob, Checked your data again and discovered you went from all green on 5/17 to red after. Did you make any changes to the system after 5/17?
 
Your opinion please

Can you comment on this please? Mode 3A % fail 100.00% MCF 2558. For whatever its worth, ATC sees me fine with my proper altitude. Navworks system with Garmin Transponder. Thanks in advance.
 
retpd2001 said:
Can you comment on this please? Mode 3A % fail 100.00% MCF 2558. For whatever its worth, ATC sees me fine with my proper altitude. Navworks system with Garmin Transponder. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Could be because the ATC facility isn't using ADS-B data yet and can only see your transponder (Mode 3/A code & Baro).
 
Take advantage of this while it lasts!

Personalized service from the Fed, sincere smile included:)

I got my report back from Jim 10 minutes after sending the email. Everything appears to be in working order.

For the record I have a 430W and a Skyview system with the Trig transponder. When the Skyview capability became available, I updated my 430W firmware, added a serial output pin and connected it (with the resistor) to the pin on the transponder.
I don't remember the settings used but I do know I just followed the Dynon install instructions. It seems to be a successful recipe.
 
Quest on ADS-B errors

I have a 430W and GTX330ES. I just got the report back from Jim and I am failing on:
NIC - 100% fails
NACp - 100%
NACv 100%
NIC-SVT 100%
NACp-SVT 100%
VAL - 100%

Geo altitude also fails 91% of the time.

For NIC, they are receiving 0 - unknown. For NACp, they are receiving 0 - >= 10NM. for NACv they are also receiving 0 >= 10m/s

I need to go back and check but I am pretty sure my 430W is set to send out ADS-B + and GPS integrity is set to IE-7. I do believe my GPS X OFST and GPS V OFST are set to the default of unknown. I will try changing those.

On a portable GDl-39 I do get TIS-B information and the other areas on the report do pass. It shows that I am sending a SIL of 3 and a SDA of 2. The GVA is a 0 though.

Does anybody have a suggestion?
 
jdm117 said:
Bob, Checked your data again and discovered you went from all green on 5/17 to red after. Did you make any changes to the system after 5/17?
Click to expand...

Hmm--nothing on purpose! Any idea what might have gone wrong, per the post 5/17 numbers?
 
Bob'sRV6A said:
Hmm--nothing on purpose! Any idea what might have gone wrong, per the post 5/17 numbers?
Click to expand...

Bob, I'm on the wrong side of the FAA firewall so can't dig any deeper till tomorrow afternoon (meetings in AM). If no joy will engage our cert folks for guidance.
 
jsnapp said:
I have a 430W and GTX330ES. I just got the report back from Jim and I am failing on:
NIC - 100% fails
NACp - 100%
NACv 100%
NIC-SVT 100%
NACp-SVT 100%
VAL - 100%

Geo altitude also fails 91% of the time.

For NIC, they are receiving 0 - unknown. For NACp, they are receiving 0 - >= 10NM. for NACv they are also receiving 0 >= 10m/s

I need to go back and check but I am pretty sure my 430W is set to send out ADS-B + and GPS integrity is set to IE-7. I do believe my GPS X OFST and GPS V OFST are set to the default of unknown. I will try changing those.

On a portable GDl-39 I do get TIS-B information and the other areas on the report do pass. It shows that I am sending a SIL of 3 and a SDA of 2. The GVA is a 0 though.

Does anybody have a suggestion?
Click to expand...

Do you have the newest software (I think it is version 5.1) in the 430W? You must have that to work properly.
 
Disappointed to hear from jdm117 this morning that my report has not changed materially after making the recommended changes.

Had my 430W software updated to 5.1 and changed the setting to ADSB OUT +.

Changed the 330ES setting to ie7.

The 430W seems to be communicating properly with the 330, because the "no adsb" message in the upper left corner of the 330 goes out as soon as the 430W come on line. Additionally, I still get good TIS info on the 430W screen. Any Garmin gurus here that can suggest any other settings I might have wrong? It would sure be nice to have a definitive list of the settings necessary for ADS-B out.
 
BobTurner said:
Do you have the newest software (I think it is version 5.1) in the 430W? You must have that to work properly.
Click to expand...

fm135y.jpg

2cnbksj.jpg

2rcrdbo.jpg

16gbtig.jpg

rcn4tv.jpg

21b27gx.jpg

2m6313q.jpg


I think I have it correct. On the 430W Channel 1 is going to my portable GPS and channel 2 is going to the 330ES. On the 330ES channel 1 is from my encoder and channel 2 is from the 430W. As ytou can see I have SW 7.02 on the 330ES and main sw 5.03 and GOS sw 5.0 on the 430W. I will double check tomorrow that RS232 port 2 on 430W does connect to rs-232 port 2 on the 330ES.

ANy other suggestions?
 
dmaib said:
Disappointed to hear from jdm117 this morning that my report has not changed materially after making the recommended changes.

Had my 430W software updated to 5.1 and changed the setting to ADSB OUT +.

Changed the 330ES setting to ie7.

The 430W seems to be communicating properly with the 330, because the "no adsb" message in the upper left corner of the 330 goes out as soon as the 430W come on line. Additionally, I still get good TIS info on the 430W screen. Any Garmin gurus here that can suggest any other settings I might have wrong? It would sure be nice to have a definitive list of the settings necessary for ADS-B out.
Click to expand...

It looks like I am having the exact same problem. Is there any need to turn off TIS-A between the 330ES and 430W and only use the TIS-B from ads-B on a GDL 39 or similar receiver? Are there any other setting that can be set?
 
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