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Update on Van's Kit Production and Delivery Dec 2021

greghughespdx

Well Known Member
Advertiser
VAF community,

I wanted to post an update regarding our current manufacturing and operating situation. We all know it's been a rough road lately when it comes to predictable lead times on kits. The below text is copied from a post on our website today. I'm also posting it here to help ensure the message reaches our customers where they hang out, so to speak. We'll be communicating more details about the various ongoing changes and expansions that are happening at Van's in the near future, as well.

CUSTOMER UPDATE ON KIT DELIVERY TIMELINES

Recent manufacturing resource and supply chain constraints have resulted in delays to the production and delivery of many parts delivered in RV aircraft kits. These issues and constraints have hit each of our business partners as well as our company directly. As a result, our ability to deliver kits on originally planned schedules has been affected. Van’s is currently in the process of refactoring our plan/schedule for both internal and outsourced manufacturing.

We expect to issue revised lead times for most “standard-build” kits currently on order in the coming weeks. Unfortunately, this means that in some cases we will need to revise the estimated delivery timeframes for customers to whom we had previously communicated a date. Once we have concluded this planning process, we will communicate information about pending kit orders with each customer.

We fully understand this is not what those of you currently waiting on kits are hoping to hear. It’s certainly not the news we wish to be communicating. Please know that our team is hard at work on this, and we look forward to sharing more detailed information about your kit order soon. In addition, we are committed to providing information updates to customers. Regular communications will take place on at least a bi-weekly basis beginning next week.

Background

The most significant challenge both in-house and for our vendors is the ability to expand capacity in the face of supply chain and labor shortages and to meet demand while still delivering quality parts. Demand and orders for our kits grew quickly, to a rate greater than our combined internal and external manufacturing could reliably keep up with. Even as we’ve expanded over the course of the last year, the kit order rate continued to grow and exceed our capacity to produce. We identified vendors possessing the equipment we needed, but those vendors charged highly inflated certified prices that we did not wish to pass on to our experimental aircraft customers. To face these challenges, we have been adding personnel and equipment, and we have expanded our manufacturing partnerships – but all of these additions take time to ramp up and improve manufacturing capacity and lead-time for deliveries.

As outlined in the list below, we are currently taking significant additional steps to increase our manufacturing capacity and build reasonable protection against the types of disruption we’ve experienced recently. These include, but are not limited to:

  • Purchasing more floor space and rearranging our factory and warehouses to allow a larger volume of throughput
  • Purchasing additional new manufacturing equipment to increase production capacity
  • Addition of third-party manufacturing partners to add capacity and redundancy
  • Addition of staff and shifts at Van’s to expand internal manufacturing capacity
  • Addition of staff and shifts to expand crating and shipping capacity
  • Addition of staff related to manufacturing planning and execution
We anticipate being able to execute a meaningful increase in our parts production capacity over the next few months as a result of the combined set of changes currently being made. In addition, we look forward to sharing details of some of the changes with you in communications over the next few months.

An update on Quick Build kits

Quick Build kit delivery timeframes are – as a matter of practical necessity – predicated on a longer lead-time schedule. This is due to the significant number of partner/vendor, manufacturing, and shipping steps that make up the Quick Build production process. We have reviewed previously-communicated crating/shipping dates for customers awaiting Quick Build kits. At this time, we are confident in the lead times we’ve communicated for those Quick Build kits. We will continue to update and revise this information as warranted.

The overall cost of producing Quick Build kits has risen dramatically over the past year, especially in the area of overseas shipping and transportation. We must take these costs into account when planning and determining appropriate prices for transportation and kits. While we always do our best to keep costs down, some external variable costs are outside of our control. For example, the cost to ship a Quick Build fuselage or wing kit from the assembly facility in the Philippines to Van’s has increased over the last year by $2,000 per kit, and container shipping rates are still climbing at this time.

In other news, we recently added a second Quick Build assembly facility in Brazil. We will be receiving the first batches of Quick Build kits from that facility at Van’s starting in January. The expanded Quick Build capacity associated with having two partner facilities will result in reduced risk and shortened lead times as the new facility ramps up its production over the course of the next year.

Conclusion

Our primary goal over the next few weeks is to complete our ongoing planning and to communicate new lead times to you that we have confidence we can meet or beat. Our planning process takes into consideration the real-world impact of recent interruptions and constraints, mitigation against potential future disruption, and manufacturing expansion steps that will enable us to increase the production and delivery of RV parts.

Thank you.​
 
Thank-you for the update and the transparency. Even it it isn't necessarily good news, I appreciate the communication and updates.
 
Thank you for the update Greg!

As someone who is patiently waiting, the most important part of your communication is the following statement.
Regular communications will take place on at least a bi-weekly basis beginning next week.

I look forward to any and all updates as well as my kits, when you can.

Please pass my thanks for their hard work to ALL your employees.
 
Guess many companies would dream being victims of their own success, the more so in those times.
Thanks for your honesty and products Vans, may you prosper for long :cool:
 
QB Building & Shipping

If I may ask, Why not assemble Quick builds here in the US in a state like Florida or Texas ? Times have changed,learn the lessons Cessna learned the hard way with the Sky Catcher. Time to bring it all home! IMHO
 
Any thoughts on reactivating The Rviator? I know it fell out of favour with the advent of social media, but I think a monthly or bimonthly email newsletter would be most welcome.
 
If I may ask, Why not assemble Quick builds here in the US in a state like Florida or Texas ? Times have changed,learn the lessons Cessna learned the hard way with the Sky Catcher. Time to bring it all home! IMHO

We don’t actually assemble the quick build kits ourselves. We have partner businesses that do this work. If there was a potential partner business in Texas or Florida or elsewhere with a track record that could reliably assemble QB kits in large volume for an affordable cost that made sense for the market, we would of course consider it. There are several companies in the US that will take a standard RV kit and assemble it to QB stage for you, if you wish.
 
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Thanks Greg, this update is much appreciated, as will the regular updates, even if they aren't always the news we want to hear. Personally, I can accept a delay if I'm kept informed and if it means I'll end up with a quality product like the first kit I received.
 
Seems like going into the RV12iS build business would have soaked up a huge bunch of Vans resources. Moves Vans further up in the revenue and profit chain but it seems like it might have overextend your operations. I have not seen any mention of the RV12iS build business status.
 
Seems like going into the RV12iS build business would have soaked up a huge bunch of Vans resources. Moves Vans further up in the revenue and profit chain but it seems like it might have overextend your operations. I have not seen any mention of the RV12iS build business status.

That’s a good question. The SLSA build team operates as a fairly separate function and their activities don’t really have significant impact as far as the issues we face right now. In fact, the real impact of supply chain and manufacturing issues is that their portion of the business can end up short on unavailable parts. That division is going strong and currently has a backlog that puts orders made today sometime in the 2023 delivery timeframe.

People have also asked about whether our RV-15 development affects kit production. It does not. The development of the RV-15 is being done by our Design Engineering team and does not affect staffing or production related to kits and parts. Any engineering work needed for the existing fleet of RV models is managed through our Sustained Engineering team, which exists specifically for that purpose. That team is actively involved in the evaluation of third party manufacturers that we are leveraging for parts production, from a manufacturing performance and quality perspective.

So, short version: While we do have work ongoing at Van’s not directly related to manufacturing of parts in the factory, the people doing that work are not pulled away from anything that slows or hinders parts production.
 
We dont’t actually assemble the quick build kits ourselves. We have partner businesses that do this work. If there was a potential partner business in Texas or Florida or elsewhere with a track record that could reliably assemble QB kits in large volume for an affordable cost that made sense for the market, we would of course consider it. There are several companies in the US that will take a standard RV kit and assemble it to QB stage for you, if you wish.

Greg,Thank you for responding,yes of course as part of the expansion Vans pulled that work from Synergy air to bring the 12is in house. Quality control,ease of transport,educated work force, overall better control of the processes.The time and cost of shipping containers are not coming down anytime soon.At what point will shipping outweigh the savings if your container is bobbing up and down in the Pacific waiting for a berth in port to unload.With a back log this large, its an all hands on deck effort. retrain, reorganize,get these kits out the door with these beautiful words" Made in America" Please.
 
If I may ask, Why not assemble Quick builds here in the US in a state like Florida or Texas ? Times have changed, learn the lessons Cessna learned the hard way with the Sky Catcher. Time to bring it all home! IMHO

IMO the cost to bring the labor back to the USA would put the QB option out of reach for most customers. What they saved on shipping would easily be outpaced by the increased labor cost to have them built here.
 
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Thank you for the update. I am trying really hard to be patient, and in the meantime, I am building toolboxes. At least those aren't on backorder.
 
Thanks for the update. I agree with others that the most important part of this post is the commitment to consistent communication with your customers. We understand the crazy global supply chain situation that is out of your control, so simply reminding us we haven't been forgotten (which I know we haven't!) goes a long way.

Just this morning I got a call from you guys on a part that has been backordered for nearly 3 months. In this case, it was finally getting delivered, but honestly, the simple act of calling makes all the difference.

Thanks!
Paolo
 
Thanks Greg for the communication.

Has Vans considered sending out an email when you all post news like this? Sometimes I go a while between looking at the website and forums, since I am waiting on my first kit.

I wouldn't mind seeing all Vans news hit my inbox, if that is possible.
 
Thanks Greg for the communication.

Has Vans considered sending out an email when you all post news like this? Sometimes I go a while between looking at the website and forums, since I am waiting on my first kit.

I wouldn't mind seeing all Vans news hit my inbox, if that is possible.

jjmanton:

Check out the right hand side of Van's Aircraft website. Scroll down a little bit and you will see:

Screen Shot 2021-12-23 at 12.48.27 PM.png

Sign up and you will get notifications. There are not a lot going out but you will get the most important stuff.

There is a LOT of stuff going on with all manufacturing businesses all over the world. I do not believe that any of them can keep everyone informed as much as some people want.

I have been a Van's Aircraft Customer since 1988. I have learned over the years that Van's Aircraft does a lot to keep prices as low as they can. I have watched accessories be added to their product line for the past 33-years. Comparing the prices that Van's Aircraft charges and what I can buy some place else, Van's Aircraft has historically been the lowest cost. Sometimes when I do LOTS of searching, I may be able to find the same product for less but the amount less typically may only be 1 or 2%. Typically it is not worth my time to shop anywhere else other than Van's Aircraft. When I lived in SoCal, I would buy hardware local not because Aircraft Spruce was less money but typically because I could pick it up on my way to the airport.

Over the years, I have found it less money to buy a fabricated sheet metal part from Van's Aircraft than to buy the material necessary to make the part from Aircraft Spruce. Sometimes it is desirable to pay the higher price for the material to fabricate the part than to wait 2 or 3 days for it to ship next day or 2-day delivery on the part from Van's Aircraft.

Those of us that have been flying an RV aircraft that we built over 24-years ago want to see Van's Aircraft stay in business and provide parts and support to keep our older RV aircraft flying. I my opinion, they have been doing an excellent job supporting older RV aircraft, new builders, and bringing new products to market.

Thank you everyone working at Van's Aircraft for doing all you do to support the over 11,000 flying aircraft and all the ongoing projects that are started all over the world. Rian, Greg, and Mitch working together are doing a great job running the company and preparing for the future.
 
jjmanton:

Check out the right hand side of Van's Aircraft website. Scroll down a little bit and you will see:

View attachment 20048

Sign up and you will get notifications. There are not a lot going out but you will get the most important stuff.

There is a LOT of stuff going on with all manufacturing businesses all over the world. I do not believe that any of them can keep everyone informed as much as some people want.

I have been a Van's Aircraft Customer since 1988. I have learned over the years that Van's Aircraft does a lot to keep prices as low as they can. I have watched accessories be added to their product line for the past 33-years. Comparing the prices that Van's Aircraft charges and what I can buy some place else, Van's Aircraft has historically been the lowest cost. Sometimes when I do LOTS of searching, I may be able to find the same product for less but the amount less typically may only be 1 or 2%. Typically it is not worth my time to shop anywhere else other than Van's Aircraft. When I lived in SoCal, I would buy hardware local not because Aircraft Spruce was less money but typically because I could pick it up on my way to the airport.

Over the years, I have found it less money to buy a fabricated sheet metal part from Van's Aircraft than to buy the material necessary to make the part from Aircraft Spruce. Sometimes it is desirable to pay the higher price for the material to fabricate the part than to wait 2 or 3 days for it to ship next day or 2-day delivery on the part from Van's Aircraft.

Those of us that have been flying an RV aircraft that we built over 24-years ago want to see Van's Aircraft stay in business and provide parts and support to keep our older RV aircraft flying. I my opinion, they have been doing an excellent job supporting older RV aircraft, new builders, and bringing new products to market.

Thank you everyone working at Van's Aircraft for doing all you do to support the over 11,000 flying aircraft and all the ongoing projects that are started all over the world. Rian, Greg, and Mitch working together are doing a great job running the company and preparing for the future.


I just double checked and I am already subscribed. The last email I got from Vans was the Lycoming engine price increase earlier this year. I'll have to check if they are getting filtered out on my end somehow! Thank you.
 
I just double checked and I am already subscribed. The last email I got from Vans was the Lycoming engine price increase earlier this year. I'll have to check if they are getting filtered out on my end somehow! Thank you.

There have not been a lot of emails, although that will be changing. We are sending an update email today with a few items, which includes a link to our web site with the information that was covered in the original post on this thread.
 
Thank you Vans

Thank you everyone working at Van's Aircraft for doing all you do to support the over 11,000 flying aircraft and all the ongoing projects that are started all over the world. Rian, Greg, and Mitch working together are doing a great job running the company and preparing for the future.[/QUOTE]

+1

After touring the factory recently, it was clear to me that Van's is full of people who care about the company and customers...that's such a rarity. Given people are waiting 15 months for appliances, 9 months for Suburbans, etc I think Vans is doing a heck of a job.

Merry Christmas!
 
This is the message I just received from VANs today as an answer to my question about my RV10 finish kit status (was initially planned for begin of February 2022 pickup and ordered in March'21 or so). Looks like things are going in a bad way scenario and no improvements so far.
I feel that VANs needs to start updating their customers about possible delays in better and timely manner. By saying that I mean that looking in to the list of customers (which VANs obviously keep track of) select all customers to the date whose place in line is due say in the next 90 days ahead - contact and update them about any forecasting delays and new ETA. People who build airplanes tend to do plans, do some financial investments, renting locations and many other things. I feel that VANs customers deserve to be updated in timely manner.

:(

//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WE are very late getting parts and materials in in order to fill orders. Especially RV-10 weldments such as engine mounts are coming in very slowly so most Finish kits are going to be later than planned.

Recently our team has been working through the process of reviewing all kit orders, and liaising with our various external vendors, due to delays caused by material, labor and manufacturing shortages.

This review is currently underway, and Van’s will communicate with all customers regarding updated statuses.

We are very sorry for the delays you and all of our customers are experiencing, and please know that we are equally frustrated with these delays and we are working hard to address the situation and communicate new informatione are trying to review the kit lead times for everyone.

//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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It has been 3 weeks as of tomorrow since this thread was started by Greg Hughes/Van’s Aircraft. I would have thought at the very least some form of update would have been made for all those with kits on order. I still have 4 kits on order with absolutely no updates for any of them. No expected crate dates or anything. My empennage was due last month. I totally understand there will be a delay, and am good with that, but Van’s should have provided some sliver of information by now. Communication is key, and it appears to be lacking. An update explaining what stage the evaluation is in would be welcome, or perhaps an ecd for when the new delivery dates would be a great first step.
Henry
RV-10
42583
 
Rian and I will be recording an update and posting in the next day or two. We understand the importance of updating and we’ll have it for you. I’ll be sure to link from here as well.
 
It's tough out there, so I get it. I'll be patiently waiting for my kit to crate.

However, to make up for the delays, Van's should secretly show those with kits delayed the new RV-15 :D
 
Ordered my finish kit June 2021 with a 6 month lead time. Well life has been busy. Progress is slow and steady, and I'm still in no way ready for the finish kit.

The additional delays are actually working in my favour.

Website is currently saying 10 months, that means crating in April for May delivery. That might work out well.

I know this doesn't help out those who are waiting with nothing to build, just offering a positive perspective
 
Rian and I will be recording an update and posting in the next day or two. We understand the importance of updating and we’ll have it for you. I’ll be sure to link from here as well.

Thanks Greg, many of us will be happy to get an update and hopefully have some expectations set.

Best,

Patrick
 
Rian and I will be recording an update and posting in the next day or two. We understand the importance of updating and we’ll have it for you. I’ll be sure to link from here as well.

Thanks Greg,

It's tough to plan out the big expenditures in tools and workspace with the big unknown of the Van's schedule. I look forward to the near term update and also the improved communications going forward.

Just a though for your consideration. I know as the lead times went thru the proverbial roof, so did the orders for kits not really needed right away. I may have been a part of that. Perhaps as part of the communications to each kit customer, Van's could ascertain if the project is on hold for that specific kit, or if the delivery can slide a few months or so to allow those projects awaiting that kit to continue unimpeded. Personally I'd be willing to let one or more of my kits slide a few months or so (maybe longer) to allow others to get theirs sooner to continue work.

Regards,
Henry
RV-10 (building once empennage arrives)
 
Just a though for your consideration. I know as the lead times went thru the proverbial roof, so did the orders for kits not really needed right away. I may have been a part of that. Perhaps as part of the communications to each kit customer, Van's could ascertain if the project is on hold for that specific kit, or if the delivery can slide a few months or so to allow those projects awaiting that kit to continue unimpeded. Personally I'd be willing to let one or more of my kits slide a few months or so (maybe longer) to allow others to get theirs sooner to continue work.

We appreciate that thought, and it's something we've discussed. At the moment, adding the additional complexity and overhead of rescheduling the delivery priority of existing orders at the scale we're dealing with would be another tax on getting to where we need to be. We will discuss the idea again at some point in the future.
 
We appreciate that thought, and it's something we've discussed. At the moment, adding the additional complexity and overhead of rescheduling the delivery priority of existing orders at the scale we're dealing with would be another tax on getting to where we need to be. We will discuss the idea again at some point in the future.

For a builder in this position, what are the implications of deferring crating and shipping of a kit? For example, I get the phone call/email tomorrow, but don't need the kit yet. Can I defer my crating date? It would accomplish a similar thing and potentially less to manage.

Don't want to create further hardships at Van's Aircraft. However, others are sitting twiddling their thumbs with nothing to build while I'm banging rivets on the fuselage with no need for the finish kit for several more months.
 
For a builder in this position, what are the implications of deferring crating and shipping of a kit? For example, I get the phone call/email tomorrow, but don't need the kit yet. Can I defer my crating date? It would accomplish a similar thing and potentially less to manage.

Don't want to create further hardships at Van's Aircraft. However, others are sitting twiddling their thumbs with nothing to build while I'm banging rivets on the fuselage with no need for the finish kit for several more months.

David,
I believe that Van's would need to agree to and manage this type of swapping positions in the shipping order. I fully understand what Greg posted (and no doubt Greg will be responding here soon), and I'm sure there would be tremendous overhead for them if they put such a plan in place. From the Van's page (I added the underline for emphasis):

DELAYING YOUR KIT DELIVERY
If you choose to delay the delivery of your kit from the originally scheduled timeframe and priority on our customer order list, we will schedule your kit delivery slot for the next customer in our queue. We will change your kit delivery to a future kit manufacturing batch/slot and communicate the approximate timeframe for availability to you. Note that customer-initiated delays in kit shipments from the original kit order timeframes will result in a price change to the current price of the kits/items on order.


As the kit prices have changed (sometimes substantially since we ordered), I don't plan on requesting a delay in my kit, unless Van's offers this with a cost neutral basis. I suppose after receipt of a kit, I could do some trading locally with a builder needing the kit now, and wait for their kit. That wouldn't cause any added work for Van's.

Henry
RV-10
42583
 
kits shipped daily

Personally I would like to see a daily posting of the type and number of kits that shipped. Customers deserve transparency in what is shipping, not vagaries about material lead times, labor shortages and process improvement.

I believe the majority of customers who have faithfully spent tens of thousands of dollars are loosing, or have lost faith in Vans ability to meet any time commitment.

For example, I recieved the following email in October for a kit that was already delayed: "It should go to the crating dept in November. Right now we are still producing parts for those kits. You will be contacted before it goes to the crating dept. Crating is very backlogged so it may not ship for a few weeks after it gets into their department.

So how about a daily update?
 
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Personally I would like to see a daily posting of the type and number of kits that shipped. Customers deserve transparency in what is shipping, not vagaries about material lead times, labor shortages and process improvement.

I believe the majority of customers who have faithfully spent tens of thousands of dollars are loosing, or have lost faith in Vans ability to meet any time commitment.

For example, I recieved the following email in October for a kit that was already delayed: "It should go to the crating dept in November. Right now we are still producing parts for those kits. You will be contacted before it goes to the crating dept. Crating is very backlogged so it may not ship for a few weeks after it gets into their department.

So how about a daily update?

The time required to produce a daily shipping document for release would probably be greater than the time to crate a kit. Just adding more overhead. I think the queue will move fastest if everyone just takes a patience pill and let them do their job as best they can.
 
Personally I would like to see a daily posting of the type and number of kits that shipped.

That's an interesting idea: a listing of how many orders are ahead, updated on some regular schedule. That would give the builder a more accurate picture of delivery time.

The ability to 'swap places' in the delivery line seems risky in that it might generate a black market, like ticket scalping. Having said that, I wouldn't mind a call from Vans when my kit was about to ship asking if I was willing to swap places with a more urgent builder (assuming no penalty to me).

I do get that nagging feeling that at some point the demand is going to collapse....
 
Seems like everyone is in the same boat

I have a friend who ordered a kit from another manufacturer roughly the same time I ordered my RV12is....he was told to expect a 2 year wait. It's brutal out there for any/all manufacturers and anything requiring skilled labor. Hang in there everyone.
 
A friend of mine has waited a year and counting for a wooden wing spar for her cub.
I personally think Vans are doing pretty well, it’s a mess out there, and getting worse.
 
dont see how this is difficult

We appreciate that thought, and it's something we've discussed. At the moment, adding the additional complexity and overhead of rescheduling the delivery priority of existing orders at the scale we're dealing with would be another tax on getting to where we need to be. We will discuss the idea again at some point in the future.



Why couldn't Vans review the customer numbers and those that have two (or three or four) kits ordered together push one (or two or three) back 60 days? I'd hope Vans would be a better gate keeper for clients who trusted Vans projections of lead times and placed their purchase orders accordingly.


The current situation reminds me of when there is a real or perceived gas shortage and the masses race to get in line and fill up their car with fuel not needed "just to be safe". I am reading A LOT of ppl ordered everything at the same time.

Greg's above comment needs context "...on where we need to be..." is it filling every tank to the top more quickly or is it getting those individuals that are empty some gas to continue working?
 
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Why couldn't Vans review the customer numbers and those that have two (or three or four) kits ordered together push one (or two or three) back 60 days? I'd hope Vans would be a better gate keeper for clients who trusted Vans projections of lead times and placed their purchase orders accordingly.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I really wouldn't want Van's to get into the business of trying to guess what resources a builder has available and trying to prioritize on that guess.

I'd certainly like to know how the queue is moving and where I am in line, but I don't know any company that offers that kind of internal information.

Given all the bare shelves in my local grocery stores, I don't really have great expectations that Van's is somehow immune to the uncertainties we face in global business operations right now.
 
I'd certainly like to know how the queue is moving and where I am in line, but I don't know any company that offers that kind of internal information.

Stein tells me this every time I check in on the avionics package for my -12. They tell me where I am in the production queue with a specific number, as well as delivery expectations for components with specific dates. When components were delayed they let me know the new ETA. Then they go even further to explain how production queue and component arrival work together for an overall expectation.
 
The time required to produce a daily shipping document for release would probably be greater than the time to crate a kit.

This was true in 1975. In 2022 it is complete nonsense.

In fact, Van's has done this with parts orders for years.
 
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RV-12is builders, for the most part, are captive to buy everything from Van's including the engine. As mentioned in this thread it's become more common for people to order everything at once so for many -12 builders that includes the engine. I know of at least one person who has a crating date very soon for his power plant package but no ETA on his finishing kit. The warranty clock on the Rotax engine starts with retail delivery.

Imagine facing a decision to delay delivery on the engine to avoid a warranty issue while doing so would lead to a price increase on the kit because Van's can't get parts together...at least per the policy.


David,
I believe that Van's would need to agree to and manage this type of swapping positions in the shipping order. I fully understand what Greg posted (and no doubt Greg will be responding here soon), and I'm sure there would be tremendous overhead for them if they put such a plan in place. From the Van's page (I added the underline for emphasis):

DELAYING YOUR KIT DELIVERY
If you choose to delay the delivery of your kit from the originally scheduled timeframe and priority on our customer order list, we will schedule your kit delivery slot for the next customer in our queue. We will change your kit delivery to a future kit manufacturing batch/slot and communicate the approximate timeframe for availability to you. Note that customer-initiated delays in kit shipments from the original kit order timeframes will result in a price change to the current price of the kits/items on order.


As the kit prices have changed (sometimes substantially since we ordered), I don't plan on requesting a delay in my kit, unless Van's offers this with a cost neutral basis. I suppose after receipt of a kit, I could do some trading locally with a builder needing the kit now, and wait for their kit. That wouldn't cause any added work for Van's.

Henry
RV-10
42583
 
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RV-12is builders, for the most part, are captive to buy everything from Van's including the engine.


Is it true situation if you intend to register your finished RV12 as an ELSA? If you want to register it as EAB, then you can definitely go the full experimental route.

What kit are you waiting for?
 
Is it true situation if you intend to register your finished RV12 as an ELSA? If you want to register it as EAB, then you can definitely go the full experimental route.

What kit are you waiting for?

Yes, you have the correct assumptions regarding E-LSA and EAB.

My comments are not based on personal frustrations about kit delays, this isn't about me and my kits. They are observations of things getting worse across the board at Van's. Repeated poor experiences with support, parts orders, prior delays and backorders that I'm past now, etc. To answer your question though, I'm waiting on engine and avionics and it would be unfair for me to imply that either is late right now.
 
RV-12is builders, for the most part, are captive to buy everything from Van's including the engine. As mentioned in this thread it's become more common for people to order everything at once so for many -12 builders that includes the engine. I know of at least one person who has a crating date very soon for his power plant package but no ETA on his finishing kit. The warranty clock on the Rotax engine starts with retail delivery.

Imagine facing a decision to delay delivery on the engine to avoid a warranty issue while doing so would lead to a price increase on the kit because Van's can't get parts together...at least per the policy.

And the warranty clock starts ticking when Vans get the engine. there is a six month clock that starts upon receipt of the engine by the reseller. So even asking vans to warehouse the engine for you, if they would do it, has a shelf life before you eat into the 18 month warranty from rotax.
 
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And the warranty clock starts ticking when Vans get the engine. there is a six month clock that starts upon receipt of the engine by the reseller.

I am the first time builder but the clock on my engine will start ticking soon. I think I am past the avionic warranty, if not it will be expired by my first flight. Talking to a lot of builders in the Socal area, it seems to be the common thing, not because of Vans or any vendor. My original first flight estimate is way overly optimistic. 1/2 of EAB is education and I am learning a lot.
 
And the warranty clock starts ticking when Vans get the engine. there is a six month clock that starts upon receipt of the engine by the reseller.

It is possible that things have change from how I understand them, but the standard non-certified Rotax warranty is 18 months or 200 hrs, whichever comes first, and in the past, RV-12 builders were given a warranty start date as their certification date (with some level of limit to that I think, based on when they took delivery)
 
It is possible that things have change from how I understand them, but the standard non-certified Rotax warranty is 18 months or 200 hrs, whichever comes first, and in the past, RV-12 builders were given a warranty start date as their certification date (with some level of limit to that I think, based on when they took delivery)

Hi Scott,

To clarify, my understanding is upon receipt the reseller has six moths to deliver the engine to the retail customer before the 18/200 warranty begins. Upon receipt by the retail customer the 18/200 warranty begins or continues if the reseller took more than six months to deliver.

It would be great if Vans has dispensation from what I understand is the warranty. If you could verify there is some grace period I'd be delighted as would all rv-12 builders. (especially the guy who's engine is about to ship and finishing kit does not have a crating date...) My data is from the rotax service letter for warranty information as follows:

https://www.leadingedgeairfoils.com...WNxVTdiYRxtB6NZPBXUsKI676qGWuFwH3d8OEVDu9RO78

thanks for the help.
 
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