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Edge distance issue

High_Flyer

Well Known Member
Hello everyone,
Yesterday I installed the rollbar on my RV-7. I then dismanteled it and saw this:




Obviously there is an edge distance issue here with the hole on the F631A channel.
These are the holes through which the AN 509-10R10 screws are going in (see pic below). The edge distance inside is good as there is another strip of aluminum F631B-L. The The F631A aft channel where the mistake is located is sandwiched between two pieces.

Is that a problem??

Thanks and Merry Christmas to all.

Alain.


 
That part is only critical untill you really need it. I'd shoot Vans an email with a few more pics just for peace of mind, (because I wouldn't be comfortable.) See what they say.
Regards
 
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I would not worry to much about this - 'When you need it' ... as I see it ... is when you flip over (hopefully never) ... and even so ... the assembly is not going to go anywhere as it is being pushed down into the bracket.

For ultimate peace of mind ... ask Vans and let us know what they have to say ... Good luck with the rest of the build ..
 
Thanks

Thanks for the replies.
I've sent an email to Vans a couple of days ago, still waiting for a reply. I'm not expecting anything before January anyway, the guys at the mothership need a break for the festive season as well...
I will post the reply here when I get it.
Alain.
 
just did this

Just did the same thing a few days ago. This is the photo of my proposed fix to send to Vans. Will wait to see their response to you.

Found a piece of scrap aluminum the same thickness as the roll bar, and filed it to fit within the channel. After drilling for 3 rivets, used a round file on the scrap piece to open the bolt holes, deburred, then riveted. I also placed 1 rivet between the bolt holes because the outer section was trying to lift away from the thinner material.
2m5fig9.jpg
 
Thanks for the replies.
I've sent an email to Vans a couple of days ago, still waiting for a reply. I'm not expecting anything before January anyway, the guys at the mothership need a break for the festive season as well...
I will post the reply here when I get it.
Alain.

Van's normal response is that they do not approve of any changes including "screw ups" that do not meet the intent of the original design. It is up to the builder or A&P/IA to determined if the condition is safe. Just went through a similar scenario with a friends RV-9A where the fuel tank attach screw holes were dimpled without first drilling to size. All of the holes have slight stress cracks from stretching the metal.
 
Reply from VANS, not good...

Here is the reply from VANS regarding the mistake I made on my rollbar:

"The final answer on this is the role bar chanels should be replaced so these holes will have some edge distance with the chanels.
Sterling
"

So I will order some new parts and re-do this bit :mad:

Alain.
 
I would not worry to much about this - 'When you need it' ... as I see it ... is when you flip over (hopefully never) ... and even so ... the assembly is not going to go anywhere as it is being pushed down into the bracket. "snip"

"the assembly is not going to go anywhere as it is being pushed down into the bracket" is generaly true if there is no further forward travel after a flip.
But if there is continuing forward momentum after the flip the roll bar may fold forward. Such an accident happened to a local pilot who crashed his RV9 in Penticton, British Columbia, Canada (due to fuel flow issues) a number of years ago. The forward momentum of his flipped RV9 caused the roll bar on his tipper to collapse forward causing unstated trauma to his neck and head. The poor chap didn't survive. Really tragic.
 
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roll bar

Scott A., not sure if I properly responded to your PM.

I was holding my email to Vans until High Flyer got a response, but somehow missed this thread when Van's response was posted.

While it doesn't look good for me, yes, Scott, I will send in to Vans anyway. What a pain, not just to re-build the roll bar, but likely to re-fabricate the match-drilled angles which support it.
 
I have received my new parts only 3 days after ordering. Bravo Vans...
My fix is as follows: I drilled out the left side of the roll bar assembly (left aft and fwd channels), match drilled the new aft left roll bar channel through the F-631B inner and outer strips, including the holes at the bottom of the channel making sure that I have proper edge distance. It's all good and I'm now about to re-rivet the roll bar assembly.


Scott A., not sure if I properly responded to your PM.

I was holding my email to Vans until High Flyer got a response, but somehow missed this thread when Van's response was posted.

While it doesn't look good for me, yes, Scott, I will send in to Vans anyway. What a pain, not just to re-build the roll bar, but likely to re-fabricate the match-drilled angles which support it.

Moondog I didn't have to re-fabricate the the supporting angles. I only replaced the left aft roll bar channel and re-used all other parts. I worked for me.
In my case when I drilled the bottom holes in the channel I didn't notice that the roll bar assembly channels got a bit too wide, resulting in the faulty holes. But luckily the two F-631B strips had good edge distance so for me it was just a matter match-drilling the new channel through the F-631B strips and I now have proper edge distance everywhere.

I'm still hesitating to drill out the right side aft channel to be able to re-rivet the two F-631E plates with AN-426 rivets, or leave the right side as it is and use pull rivets to rivet the left side of the F-631E plates to the left fwd and aft channels.
I'll send a quick email to Vans to ask for opinion, I'll post the reply here when I get it.

Alain.
 
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Here is the reply I just received from Vans, and my initial email:

"In this area I would recommend using cherry CR-3213-4-? rivets or MSP-42.

Sterling

On 9 Jan 2015 at 9:08, Alain VAN SEVEREN wrote:

> Sterling,
>
> One last question:
> Please refer to Dwg 39 (picture attached).
> Instead of drilling out the aft right roll bar channel to be able to
> re-rivet the F-631E plates and F-732 angle using AN-470 rivets, is it
> OK to leave the right side roll bar as it is and use eight pull rivets
> to rivet the left side of the aft F-631E plate and F-732 angle to the
> aft left roll bar channel?
> If yes what kind of pull rivets would you recommend? I'm thinking LP4-3? "

So I'll be using MSP-42 instead of AN-426 rivets for the F-631E back plate so there is no need to drill out another 40 or so rivets.

Alain.
 
rebuild

Van's reply is below. Their response to my mistake was what I expected, certainly can't disagree. Will rebuild this part as posted by High Flyer, thanks Alain.
From Sterling:
The advice from the engineering team on Alain's parts was to rebuild this to have better edge distance. Your picture on VAF would get the same recommendation. In normal operations this would not cause any problem the way it is. The fact that this is the roll over structure of the aircraft and if ever needed it would be best to have it at full strength.​
 
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