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Changed operating limitations

Ed_Wischmeyer

Ed_Wischmeyer

Well Known Member
So I'm putting a constant speed prop on the RV-9A, and the FSDO says that the plane will get new operating limitations. Changes from the old operating limitations will include:
* "EXPERIMENTAL" sign is no longer enough, now must have the passenger warning;
* When filing a flight plan, must include that the plane is experimental;
* Life limited components must have an equivalent level of safety.

None of these are show stoppers, but when did they come into play?

Ed
 
Things are getting weird in FSDO land. Sounds like they are updating your OpLims to the newest verbiage. A fellow I know has a plane where he needed to get new OpLims, and an update to the new verbiage would have helped the situation, but the FSDO said they could not do that, they could only modify the verbiage of the old one to accommodate the changes. Yay, lack of standardization!
 
Ops lims

Ed,the pax warning and flight plan language have been around a long time. The latest FAA order is 8130.2 J

It explains some. The Ops lims are now generated by DARs using a job aide computerized form that spits out the required boilerplate language for your Ops lims.

EAA is working to clarify some of the odd requirements
 
RV7A Flyer said:
What does that mean?
Click to expand...

Probably related to this paragraph in 4-10 in 8130.2J:

(b) Non-Type-Certificated Products. Unless otherwise determined by the FAA, all articles installed in non-type-certificated products operated in the experimental category, in which the manufacturer has specified limits, must include in their program an equivalent level of safety for those articles. Although the FAA recommends adherence to part replacements, achieving an equivalent level of safety for non-type-certificated products is acceptable. The article must be inspected to ensure the equivalent level of safety still renders the product in a serviceable condition for safe operation.
 
Just thank God you're not in Texas !! The North Texas FSDO has no clue what to do with Ops Limit for Experimentals. I've had to resort to getting help from our two Senators to try to get them to fix mine after talking with the FSDO, opening a complaint with Washington, having someone from the FAA Quality Control & Investigation Branch, AFB-470 show them how to fix it, and STILL nobody has fixed it.
 
Last edited:
jacoby said:
Probably related to this paragraph in 4-10 in 8130.2J:

(b) Non-Type-Certificated Products. Unless otherwise determined by the FAA, all articles installed in non-type-certificated products operated in the experimental category, in which the manufacturer has specified limits, must include in their program an equivalent level of safety for those articles. Although the FAA recommends adherence to part replacements, achieving an equivalent level of safety for non-type-certificated products is acceptable. The article must be inspected to ensure the equivalent level of safety still renders the product in a serviceable condition for safe operation.
Click to expand...

OK, so it seems like one line should suffice..."All life-limited items will be inspected on a regular basis to ensure the product is in a serviceable condition for safe operation." Ta-da!

What silliness...and I'm curious what problem this is meant to solve? Have we had a rash of accidents due to people not replacing worn-out parts that had a manufacturer's life-limit specified?
 
RV7A Flyer said:
Have we had a rash of accidents due to people not replacing worn-out parts that had a manufacturer's life-limit specified?
Click to expand...

Think that depends on how "we" is defined. When I talked to the FSDO this morning, I suggested that life-limited rotor blades would fit this limitation, and he thought this was a good example.

It's also not clear that the language is unique to Experimental, Amateur Built. For example, this limitation might make a lot of sense for a helicopter flown Experimental, Exhibition.

Apparently the FSDO now fills in some information on line and the software spits out the operating limitations.
 
Ed_Wischmeyer said:
Apparently the FSDO now fills in some information on line and the software spits out the operating limitations.
Click to expand...

Although correct regarding the computer templates to try to standardize everything, the FSDO employee still has to pick what to include and what not to include. I just got off the phone right now with a FSDO manager and the standard excuse that they're overworked and understaffed.....but at least this person sounded like he wanted to help resolve it. Time will tell...
 
RV7A Flyer said:
OK, so it seems like one line should suffice..."All life-limited items will be inspected on a regular basis to ensure the product is in a serviceable condition for safe operation." Ta-da!

What silliness...and I'm curious what problem this is meant to solve? Have we had a rash of accidents due to people not replacing worn-out parts that had a manufacturer's life-limit specified?
Click to expand...

Actually, this was originally meant to address the large influx of Eastern Bloc aircraft coming into the country. They in fact have many life-limited parts, especially rotor blades, and they are mostly licensed as Experimental-Exhibition. It wasn't meant to be included for us, and we are working with the FAA to figure out a solution. No need to be concerned. :)

Vic
 
vic syracuse said:
Actually, this was originally meant to address the large influx of Eastern Bloc aircraft coming into the country. They in fact have many life-limited parts, especially rotor blades, and they are mostly licensed as Experimental-Exhibition. It wasn't meant to be included for us, and we are working with the FAA to figure out a solution. No need to be concerned. :)

Vic
Click to expand...

Not concerned at all...I *have* my Ops Lims :). Seriously, though, thanks for the info...that does make a lot more sense now, and I'm sure that will put some people at ease (and likely help them navigate FSDOs who don't understand it yet).
 
RV7A Flyer said:
OK, so it seems like one line should suffice..."All life-limited items will be inspected on a regular basis to ensure the product is in a serviceable condition for safe operation." Ta-da!
Click to expand...

Well, let's see - that statement pretty much applies to the entire aircraft - none of them are designed to last forever, and are thus life-limited. And we inspect them annually for "condition for safe operation" - so...

Nothing to see here, move along...
 
airguy said:
Well, let's see - that statement pretty much applies to the entire aircraft - none of them are designed to last forever, and are thus life-limited. And we inspect them annually for "condition for safe operation" - so...

Nothing to see here, move along...
Click to expand...

See Vic's comment above...looks like this OpLim is being misapplied to EAB, and was intended for imported warbird conversions or the like.
 
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