What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

You may have an invalid pilots license..

gasman

Well Known Member
Friend
You may have an invalid pilots license.. or, flying without a CRETIFICATE.

I carried my paper license for 20 years and hated to give it up for the new credit card type we now carry. When it was replaced, it was still in perfect shape.

I don't take it out of my wallet very often, but I did today.

The license is defaced to the point that it is probably invalid. The print has scuffed to the point where America is all but gone, eyes are gone, hologram is 30% gone and most of the print on the back is illegible. So much for progress. I will be ordering a replacement today.

What do you have in your wallet?
 
Last edited:
A friend of mine has a plastic one, but without the "proficient in English" statement. I believe that makes it invalid also.
 
I rarely need my card so rather than keeping it in my wallet, it stays in the plane along with the registration and operating limitations.

erich
 
Interesting Info!

.... In all the forty plus years of flying, I have never had occasion to show
my pilots license to anyone in less I was looking for my own edification. I
jokingly made a statement in a large group of guys," In retrospect, I really
didn't need a pilots license as I've never been asked to produce it." I was
then informed by a couple of guys that they never, ever had one! Since then
I have become aware of several more that never felt the need, stating
"Haven't been pulled over yet". This was a total surprise to me as I try to do
most flying related things by the book. I wonder if this same ratio exists at
other airports? Thanks, Allan...:confused::eek:
 
.... In all the forty plus years of flying, I have never had occasion to show
my pilots license to anyone in less I was looking for my own edification. I
jokingly made a statement in a large group of guys," In retrospect, I really
didn't need a pilots license as I've never been asked to produce it." I was
then informed by a couple of guys that they never, ever had one! Since then
I have become aware of several more that never felt the need, stating
"Haven't been pulled over yet". This was a total surprise to me as I try to do
most flying related things by the book. I wonder if this same ratio exists at
other airports? Thanks, Allan...:confused::eek:

Sounds like a good way to fail a ramp check. Not sure what the penalty would be, but why not just follow the rules? This one is really, really, really simple to abide by.

?61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.
(a) Required pilot certificate for operating a civil aircraft of the United States. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that person:
(1) Has in the person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization?
(i) A pilot certificate issued under this part and in accordance with ?61.19;
...
 
A few years back I attended an FAA presentation where the presenter said that while stationed in Alaska his goal was to 50% of the pilots in his district licensed.

It just goes to show that a piece of plastic or paper doesn't mean you know how to do something.
 
I was driving a pickup for a few years before I got my drivers license, and a tractor before that. Funny that my dad trusted me to drive the tractor before I could drive a pickup, but I guess he figured the field was safer than a public road.

I'm sure there are quite a few other gray-hairs on here that can relate. Alaska would be no different, other than the distance and difficulty to "do it right". If you grew up with it, you just kept on doing it.
 
I spent a few months Champ shopping. I was surprised at how many I found that were decades out of annual (still flying regularly), and/or being flown by guys who had never bothered to get a medical or pilot's certificate. I guess when you'e flying off a farm strip in North Dakota or wherever you just don't have to worry too much about it.
 
I spent a few months Champ shopping. I was surprised at how many I found that were decades out of annual (still flying regularly), and/or being flown by guys who had never bothered to get a medical or pilot's certificate. I guess when you'e flying off a farm strip in North Dakota or wherever you just don't have to worry too much about it.

You may not have to, but that pretty much means you're not flying with insurance of any kind, either. I guess if you don't care about your estate/heirs losing that farm (and all the rest of your assets, money, etc.) in the event of the unthinkable (injuring or killing someone else), then by all means, fly around with no license, medical or insurance, in a plane that's not legal to fly. (I mean "you" in the rhetorical sense, not you personally :)).

Those ambulance-chaser lawyers everyone likes to bag on? They eat, live and breathe for cases like this.
 
You may not have to, but that pretty much means you're not flying with insurance of any kind, either. I guess if you don't care about your estate/heirs losing that farm (and all the rest of your assets, money, etc.) in the event of the unthinkable (injuring or killing someone else), then by all means, fly around with no license, medical or insurance, in a plane that's not legal to fly. (I mean "you" in the rhetorical sense, not you personally :)).

Those ambulance-chaser lawyers everyone likes to bag on? They eat, live and breathe for cases like this.

You're absolutely right. I expressed my surprise to one or two codgers. Seems they fly off their farm strip, never go more than a few dozen miles, they're out in the middle of nowhere, just inspecting their fields and hitting an occasional pancake breakfast I guess. Been doing it for decades. They didn't seem worried about it. I'm slightly more uptight about things like that, but then I'm a city person. Maybe I'd feel different if I lived on a farm halfway between Dickey and Gackle (to pick two random North Dakota towns). ::shrug::
 
You're absolutely right. I expressed my surprise to one or two codgers. Seems they fly off their farm strip, never go more than a few dozen miles, they're out in the middle of nowhere, just inspecting their fields and hitting an occasional pancake breakfast I guess. Been doing it for decades. They didn't seem worried about it. I'm slightly more uptight about things like that, but then I'm a city person. Maybe I'd feel different if I lived on a farm halfway between Dickey and Gackle (to pick two random North Dakota towns). ::shrug::

And right there, they've entered into a larger "system" and are putting others at risk. Accidents, injuries and fatalities can occur at occasional pancake breakfast airports and fly-ins, too... :)

I guess I'd have to wonder about the mentality of a pilot who doesn't think he needs to follow the law when it comes to something as simple as a license. What else isn't he following the law on? Or standard procedures? Or good maintenance/engineering practices?

I think that's one of those personality types they talk about in all the courses on accident prevention: the one who willfully ignores or violates regulations and rules.
 
flying

I liked the one were they ramp check a guy in Alaska that had 15 thousand hours and student license.
 
I guess I'd have to wonder about the mentality of a pilot who doesn't think he needs to follow the law when it comes to something as simple as a license. What else isn't he following the law on? Or standard procedures? Or good maintenance/engineering practices?
Like I said, some were flying planes out of annual, no medical, the list goes on. I'm a relative newbie, it was an eye opener.
 
I liked the one were they ramp check a guy in Alaska that had 15 thousand hours and student license.

Back when I was teaching full time I had a guy come to me to finish his private certificate that was sort of like that.
He had received some training but then just kept on flying. Operating his own Cessna 210, taking passengers, IFR, border crossings etc over about a 10 year period. It was all recorded in his log book (the teeth marks from the dog chewing on it were my favorite). He just decided to come clean and make things right. Got him through ground school and the written and then flew with him enough to meet all the requirements and he passed his check ride with flying colors so to speak. The examiner (who I had briefed about everything before hand) said he did a great job.

My favorite student though was the older gentleman who came in and said he wanted to get his BFR. He had just completed cancer treatment and wanted to fly again. He said he had a commercial instrument multi engine but had not flown for "many years" in his words. I did not press for the definition of many years but we agreed his best bet would be to attend the schools private pilot ground school to cover all the (then) recent changes to airspace etc while he waited to get his medical back. About three months later he comes back with a third class medical and a good score on the ground school final. We sit down to start the brief for the first flight and he hands me his log book. His last flight was in 1945 in a P-38J.
 
So...The recent probable cause NTSB report on the RV-10 accident in GA (5 fatalities) mentioned that the pilot/owner never received his PP license. Does anyone know if he had insurance, and if so, did they pay out or refuse?
 
I would be too paranoid to fly without a license and here's why! My girlfriend kids me all the time about being the most by the book guy she's ever known, I do not speed and NEVER drink and drive etc. Funny thing is I've been stopped by the police at least 6 times in the last 8 months, (no tickets!). Each time I wasn't speeding, swerving... anything! The last time an officer stopped me, it was the same guy from several weeks before. He walked up and said, "Oh, it's you!" I'm sure I looked puzzled, I said nothing and he turned went back to his car, got in and drove off! :)

p.s. Have to add that each officer was professional and courteous.
 
I would be too paranoid to fly without a license and here's why! My girlfriend kids me all the time about being the most by the book guy she's ever known, I do not speed and NEVER drink and drive etc. Funny thing is I've been stopped by the police at least 6 times in the last 8 months, (no tickets!). Each time I wasn't speeding, swerving... anything! The last time an officer stopped me, it was the same guy from several weeks before. He walked up and said, "Oh, it's you!" I'm sure I looked puzzled, I said nothing and he turned went back to his car, got in and drove off! :)
p.s. Have to add that each officer was professional and courteous.

OK, I gotta ask; if you never break the law, why are you stopped so often?
I get stopped, on average, about once every 15-20 years, and it's usually because I've done something wrong.
My last ticket was for speeding, the last day of college in 1964.
 
Funny thing is I've been stopped by the police at least 6 times in the last 8 months, (no tickets!). Each time I wasn't speeding, swerving... anything!
8< snip...
p.s. Have to add that each officer was professional and courteous.
I wouldn't think "professional" would be a term I would use if they were pulling you over for no reason.
 
I feel most of it is just the time of night. Statistically it's probably when the greatest number of people that might drink and drive would be heading home. I get off work around midnight and go thru a few small towns on the way home so not much going on then. Maybe I look suspicious in my 2004 Honda Civic but as soon as they see me in a pair of scrubs, (work in health care), and a military style bomber jacket they just move on. Once I was stopped because my tag lite was out. The last time I had turned into a drive and turned around and an officer thought it was suspicious so he stopped and made sure everything was ok. They all have been VERY professional and courteous! I've been stopped more in the last 8 months than the rest of my life.
 
Last edited:
Watched an incident happen where I hangar my project recently and the cavalry showed up. Everything but black helicopters overhead. Guess what the poor soul had to produce who's shiny Cherokee 180 was sitting in the ditch? Nothing happens until something happens. :(
 
Next time someone asks to see your pilot's license, tell them the truth, you don't have one.

If they know what they're talking about, they will ask to see your pilot's certificate and that you must produce.
 
Last edited:
Quick to judge

Having lost an older aviation friend to cancer last week, I must say that I've learned more from "those old guys" about flying, building, maintaining and just general aviation history than I ever will from any modern internet source. While I agree that operating by the rules is the only way to fly, don't be too harsh on more experienced generations of pilots and mechanics. Condemnation is an easy way to shut a door. Their experience is a great source of information, we just have to slowdown and listen and you just might be surprised what you can impart to them, with respect.
 
So...The recent probable cause NTSB report on the RV-10 accident in GA (5 fatalities) mentioned that the pilot/owner never received his PP license. Does anyone know if he had insurance, and if so, did they pay out or refuse?

I can't imagine an insurance company paying out in that case. I don't know the law in the US, but I would expect that not having a license, not being eligible for one (recent DUIs would disqualify him in Canada) and all the operational violations would give them any number of excuses to refuse a claim. Strangely they don't like giving people large amounts of money and they avoid it where possible.
 
Having lost an older aviation friend to cancer last week, I must say that I've learned more from "those old guys" about flying, building, maintaining and just general aviation history than I ever will from any modern internet source. While I agree that operating by the rules is the only way to fly, don't be too harsh on more experienced generations of pilots and mechanics. Condemnation is an easy way to shut a door. Their experience is a great source of information, we just have to slowdown and listen and you just might be surprised what you can impart to them, with respect.

I don't think anyone is implying that older pilots are any less knowledgeable. I don't have any data on the number of old, vs young pilots who ignore the regs. It is the people who just ignore all the basic regs that are at issue here. They can be from anywhere or of any age group. I think the big issue here is exactly what has been mentioned above - insurance. Anybody can have an incident. Anybody. Airforce top gun, astronaut, test pilot, airline guy, student pilot - aviation is one of the great equalizers. And where and when it happens (excluding doing something really foolish) can be largely a matter of luck, good or bad. You might have options, you might not. If you don't have insurance backing you up, and the insurance is not valid (because of license, medical etc), then you are risking everything you own. Some people roll the dice. I wonder if they have considered the insurance angle?
 
.... In all the forty plus years of flying, I have never had occasion to show
my pilots license to anyone in less I was looking for my own edification. I
jokingly made a statement in a large group of guys," In retrospect, I really
didn't need a pilots license as I've never been asked to produce it." I was
then informed by a couple of guys that they never, ever had one! Since then
I have become aware of several more that never felt the need, stating
"Haven't been pulled over yet". This was a total surprise to me as I try to do
most flying related things by the book. I wonder if this same ratio exists at
other airports? Thanks, Allan...:confused::eek:

Waylon Boatright from Alma, Georgia put 300+ hrs on his RV-10 without one.
 
Back
Top