Transition training and insurance requirements

Hi Folks.
I am looking to buy an RV-4 soon and started getting insurance quotes. My question is in regards to getting the training as indicated in the pilot requirements section of the quote. How am I going to do that? Is there anyone offering transition training in an RV-4? I thought most folks were using an RV-6.
Thanks,
Dom

Pilot Requirements
You are to receive a minimum of 3 hours dual flight instruction in the make/model by a CFI who meets all the requirements of the policy and receive a written endorsement in your logbook from the CFI prior to solo; then 2 hours soloin the make/model prior to carrying passengers.

Dom, the guys do usually get dual in a -6 or -7 and the Insurance Co. usually will buy that.

If you can comfortably handle a -6 or -7. you'll have no trouble soloing the -4.

Best,

Since you are looking at buying, not building, an RV (presumably out of phase 1), one option is to get trained in your own aircraft. Then you do not need to find someone with a LODA allowing them to use an E-AB for compensation.
e.g., find a CFI (who meets the insurance policy's requirements!) and hire him to ferry your new plane back to your home base, while giving you instruction. Continue training at your home base until insurance company is satisfied. Get CFI's name on your insurance for this specific purpose if there is not a general clause allowing you to get instruction in your plane.

Dual in a -4 would be worthless for the pilot. It may satisfy insurance requirements but you can't get much from it. I think it would be safer to just jump in it solo because the -4 can be handful with 2 guys in it.

Like Pierre said, get some -6 or -7 time. If you can land the side-by-side then you can land the -4 solo with no problems.

Ditto the above

I bought an RV-4 back in September 2012 and had the same dilemma. With just a stick in the back seat and my extra pounds of insulation I carry around there isn't much weight allowance left for anyone in the back seat.

I flew with Mike Seager in Oregon in his Van's provided RV-7. After gettting comfortable in that airplane with Mike, the RV-4 was a piece of cake. I had to wait almost 2 months to get time with Mike, but it was worth the wait.

I had a 5 hour requirement with my insurance and I specified that the training would be in an RV-7 and that was factory authorized and they had no problem with it.

Thanks for the input guys. As I get closer to buying, I will have to stipulate with the insurance company that the training will be in another type and have that stated on the policy or quote.
Dom

Transition training

I purchased my RV-4 about a year ago. The insurance company wanted 15 hours in type. All it took was a short talk with the agent and they lowered the requirement to 10 hours considering I had scheduled that amount of time with Mike Seager in a RV-7. I flew out to Portland, did the training, and flew the -4. I do think the RV-4 is more challenging to land than the RV-7, but the two are similar enough to satisfy both the pilot and the insurance company.

Jim
Leesburg, VA
N444JT

Go to your agent with a plan: I'm going to get training with Joe Instructor, who has a formal RV transitioning training program (or, is a CFI with xxx hours in RV models X, Y, Z). I will be doing my transition in an RV-6 (TW). I have xxx hours in tailwheel aircraft. I expect to get XX hours of transitioning training prior to my first flight in my RV-4.

...99.9% of the time they will approve this plan.

Hi Guys.
I would like to get more details on transition training. I read the syllabus on Vans website but I am wondering about the financial side of things. This is something I will have to budget for so I need an estimate of the cost. I know everyone is different but on average how many hours will it take to complete transition training? I am a 600 hour private pilot (Cessna and Cherokee time) with zero tail wheel time. I need a tail wheel endorsement and wonder if I can combine that with the transition training. If so, figure that into the estimate. What is the going hourly rate for the training? Is that one wet rate for the aircraft and instructor? Of course I need to figure in the cost of travel and lodging as well.
Thanks!
Dom

Maj. Woody said:

Hi Guys.
I would like to get more details on transition training. I read the syllabus on Vans website but I am wondering about the financial side of things. This is something I will have to budget for so I need an estimate of the cost. I know everyone is different but on average how many hours will it take to complete transition training? I am a 600 hour private pilot (Cessna and Cherokee time) with zero tail wheel time. I need a tail wheel endorsement and wonder if I can combine that with the transition training. If so, figure that into the estimate. What is the going hourly rate for the training? Is that one wet rate for the aircraft and instructor? Of course I need to figure in the cost of travel and lodging as well.
Thanks!
Dom

Click to expand...

I suggest you get the tailwheel endorsement prior to transition training. That way you won't be trying to learn two new skill sets at the same time.

Dom, You might consider getting your TD endorsement locally in a Citabria or Super Decathlon probably at a local flight school if a freelance is not available. Then find an RV CFI with a legal waiver to give you the transition training in their own RV.
I think you will only get a good idea of cost once you talk to the people who will give the training and where you need to go in your area for the training. Larry

Maj. Woody said:

Hi Guys.
I would like to get more details on transition training. I read the syllabus on Vans website but I am wondering about the financial side of things. This is something I will have to budget for so I need an estimate of the cost. I know everyone is different but on average how many hours will it take to complete transition training? I am a 600 hour private pilot (Cessna and Cherokee time) with zero tail wheel time. I need a tail wheel endorsement and wonder if I can combine that with the transition training. If so, figure that into the estimate. What is the going hourly rate for the training? Is that one wet rate for the aircraft and instructor? Of course I need to figure in the cost of travel and lodging as well.
Thanks!
Dom

Click to expand...

Dom,
Make sure that you get your official "tail-wheel sign off" in your log book and not just the documented hours needed to satisfy your insurance company. There has been some confusion in the past regarding this issue. If you log the hours that the insurance company requires but your log book doesn't show an official "tail-wheel" sign off endorsement, and you then fly off thinking that you're good to go, and you get into an accident, your insurance company will not pay the claim and you'll also be up a creek with the FAA. It may even pay you to get your initial tail-wheel training and endorsement in something like a Citabria that you can bang in and not really worry about damaging the aircraft and then go get the minimal number of hours that your insurance company is requiring in a 6 or 7.

Thanks for the input guys. My initial plan was to get my tail wheel endorsement locally in a Citabria. I drove to the airport last week to find the Citabria completely disassembled and stripped of its covering. I was told they in the process of re skinning it but it will be a long term project. I dont know of any other airports around here that offer tail wheel instruction. I guess I will have to do some searching on the internet and plan to fly my Cessna to the closest airport that can accommodate me.

Dom

Dom, a few thoughts. Background: I have a LODA (waiver) allowing me to use my RV10 for hire, for transition training.
1. There is some variation between FISDOs, but here (OAK) I am restricted to transition training only in the RV. No high performance, no Flight reviews, no ipc; if it was a tailwheel there would be no tailwheel signoffs. Their logic is that the waiver is only for things which cannot be done in a certified aircraft. So just a heads up that getting the tailwheel endorsement in someone else's RV may be hard.
2. It is not inexpensive. But before you complain about cfi's ripping you off you should know that getting insurance coverage for this sort of operation is expensive. With the possible exception of one or two cfi's who are very well known (and very good) this is a low volume business, so insurance costs get amortized over relatively few hours. E.g., in the past I have charged $50 per hour for my instructional services, and $50/hr (dry) for the airplane, but another $150/hr (average) to cover the insurance cost!

Dom,
I just completed RV training with Kent Gorton down in ATL. I did my TW endorsement and the RV training at the same time. Personally, I would do it all at the same time - it really isn't a big deal. Kent charged in the ballpark of $160 an hour for him, the RV6, and the fuel. All in all about 6 hours of instruction in done in 2 days. Worth the trip there if you can swing it. The guy is top notch.

Thanks Tom!
Dom