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2nd Year Insurance Rates Go Down

J

jjhoneck

Well Known Member
Just a data point for y'all. We bought our RV-8A last year (June 2013), with NO time in type.

The insurance company required five-hours of transition training for each of us. (My wife, Mary, is a pilot, too.) The bill for $78K of hull insurance was $1604/year. (Mary had about 800 hours, I had about 1500, at that point.)

This was quite a bit -- like, 25% -- higher than we were paying for insurance on our Piper Pathfinder, with $80K in hull insurance.

This year, after a year without a claim, the annual rate has dropped to $1300. This is still about $100/year higher than the Piper insurance, but within the margin of error, factoring in inflation.

I presume this is the norm, and that all of you first-year owners can expect to see a similar drop in the second year. YMMV.
 
Mine kept going down every year. It started about the same as yours for similar hull coverage. After 5 years and over 500 hours in type it's leveled out in the $9xx range now.

G
 
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that's the beauty of the RV world

my lancair rates are undetermined each year, and with the IV and IV-P accidents, some underwriters are even running scared at times saying they won't underwrite them

those that do, are asking for 50hrs of DUAL before solo PIC and other crazy things

point is, the RV community has done a great job keeping and excellent safety record in a very stable platform airframe, keep up the good work!
 
Maybe there is hope yet that my life insurance will go down if I don't die in the first couple of years with my experimental inclusion.

Glad to know it continues ($ reduction) with happy flying year after year!
 
I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

Aviation insurance rates are much more dictated by market conditions than by individual claims history or pilot experience.

The expectation is that you have no claims. It's a negative if you do, but not much of a positive if you don't. Group claims trends are much more important in underwriting (ie Lancair, or Maules, or Lake Renegade seaplanes)

There are / will be times when rates go UP (sometimes significantly) even with accident free hours accumulated. Rates are going down now because of the competitive forces in the market. There are 4-5 viable companies writing the coverage. If that were to shrink to 2-3 (which it very well could at most any time) we would see a significant increase in premiums.

It last happened in 2001 - 2005 timeframe when the aviation insurance marketplace contracted significantly. It's been expanding from that contraction since 2005 with rates trending downward. If you've entered the market since 2005, you might assume that rates ALWAYS go down if you build experience and stay claim free - but those that have been airplane owners for a long time know that that's not true.
 
not obvious perhaps...but effective

...another great way to reduce your rates is annual safety or endorsement training.
Heck, my RV is NOT on floats, but a $250 water egress course netted me a $150 discount on last years rate.
....but, you gotta do something every year that they recognize.
( my pole-dancing workshop at the rec centre did NOT qualify, for some reason!?!? ) :rolleyes:

does the BFR count on the years that you do it?
 
Guy Prevost said:
Mine kept going down every year. It started about the same as yours for similar hull coverage. After 5 years and over 500 hours in type it's leveled out in the $8xx range now.

G
Click to expand...

Just qurious who you are using to get800 ish a year?
 
My situation was a little different. When I called Jenny @ NationAir for a quote on the RV-6 I was planning to buy I didn't have ASEL on my certificate yet, much less a TW endorsement or any RV time. What I did have was around 4,000 hours of airplane time, nearly all multi-engine turboprop, and about the same amount of Rotorcraft-Helicopter time. At the time I called I was scheduled for an ASEL Commercial add-on in a couple of days, and 3 days with Mike Seager the next week. I would be picking up the airplane in Alabama immediately following my training with Mike.

Despite thinking that she might laugh at me, Jenny didn't bat a eyelash at my situation. My quote for $45K hull and pretty darn good coverages was $1314, with the stipulation that I was signed off as a TW PIC by Mike, no hour requirements or other limitations. Underwritten by US Specialty.

I just renewed through Jenny/NationAir again, the policy I chose this time was underwritten by Global Aerospace. Year two was $987 for the same hull value and with EAA membership the deductibles went to $0. Same liability coverage and somewhat better on a few other things. I put about 100 hours on the RV this year so I'm sure that helped.

It's still more than I would like to see for such a low hull value, but when I compare to to my automotive insurance it ain't bad...
 
Doug, sounds quite fair. I think we will all benefit from this thread. We can all see legitimate training helps as well as safe history.
I also like the AOPA online courses and FAA wings classes.
We as a group can keep the track record positive. Cheers.
 
JDRhodes said:
Aviation insurance rates are much more dictated by market conditions than by individual claims history or pilot experience.

The expectation is that you have no claims. It's a negative if you do, but not much of a positive if you don't. Group claims trends are much more important in underwriting (ie Lancair, or Maules, or Lake Renegade seaplanes)

There are / will be times when rates go UP (sometimes significantly) even with accident free hours accumulated. Rates are going down now because of the competitive forces in the market. There are 4-5 viable companies writing the coverage. If that were to shrink to 2-3 (which it very well could at most any time) we would see a significant increase in premiums.

It last happened in 2001 - 2005 timeframe when the aviation insurance marketplace contracted significantly. It's been expanding from that contraction since 2005 with rates trending downward. If you've entered the market since 2005, you might assume that rates ALWAYS go down if you build experience and stay claim free - but those that have been airplane owners for a long time know that that's not true.
Click to expand...

To expand on this, the market that drives insurance rates is *the* market, not just how many underwriters are selling a/c insurance. If the insurance company is making money on our premiums (from investing them), they are much more willing to offer lower rates to get or keep our business. In a bit over 20 years of flying, my rates have pretty much *inversely* tracked stock market trends.

Charlie
 
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I just got off the phone with Falcon regarding my insurance renewal.

Here are the things that made up my quote:
Airplane: RV-9 taildragger
TT: 975
License: PPL
Ratings: None
TTTW: 755 (Total Time Tail Wheel)
RVT: 600 (RV Time)
Home field: 2500’ grass strip, no lights
Insurance Value: $85K
Deductibles: $0
Liability Limit: $1,000,000 / $100,000 per passenger
Medical Payments: $10,000 Each Person

My insurance quote was for $1500, which is down $100 from last year.

A couple of things that stuck out when I spoke to my broker:
1. Global refused to even quote me because of the airport (SC86). He didn’t know what there was about the airport that concerned Global. I could be the length or it could be the grass, he simply didn’t know.
2. Getting an instrument rating might reduce the rate by nine to ten percent.
3. My total time and TW time is no longer factor in my insurance rates.
4. The rates for RV's is very good, when compared to other EAB's. As a group, we have a good safety rating. However, this could change based on the number of accidents, the number of insurance companies willing to write EAB policies, etc.

How does that compare? More importantly, how does that compare to “A” models?
 
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Bill,
My 9A is covered now at just under a thousand. I park at an asphalt airport.
Had no RV time to speak of when I bought it.
Hull: 71K (what I paid) Maybe I should raise that next year.
IFR/ATP/CFI etc.
Hope that helps
 
flightlogic said:
Bill,
My 9A is covered now at just under a thousand. I park at an asphalt airport.
Had no RV time to speak of when I bought it.
Hull: 71K (what I paid) Maybe I should raise that next year.
IFR/ATP/CFI etc.
Hope that helps
Click to expand...

When I run the math, using my payment to insured value ratio and compare it to what yours is, your insurance is $100 lower than mine. I would say that is within the hours/experience margin that I would expect. Maybe even toss in a few bucks for the nose wheel vs. tail wheel thing.

Pretty much a wash.

Thanks!
 
That is what I thought as well Bill. For the Cessna that we insured for 7 years, the rate dropped each year. I always felt over the years that I should add some training rather than just a BFR. Took a long time, but now I feel like I can be safer on each flight. The CFI and CFI-I is useful... as it allows me to give flight reviews. I don't charge for them... but have fun riding in a new kind of plane now and then.
Glad others are sharing rates here. Not only for the cost comparison, but to see how the market works and what myriad factors come into play.
 
Just Renewed, rate went down $400 with $30K more hull value

Just renewed my insurance through Falcon with AIG for my RV-10. The best rate this year was again with AIG. Even though I increased my hull coverage by $30K the insurance went down by $400.

For Comparison:
RV-10 500hrs TT
PPL: 450 TT
Time in Type: 290
Hull Value: $150K
$1M liability
$100K/pasenger
Premium: $2385

An IFR Rating will reduce it 5%
 
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