Certified Engine Requirements/Mods & Insurance

Hi All-

I am new to the site and I am in a bit of a quandary in terms of an engine to put in my aircraft. I would like to have an IO-360, but cannot find one complete for a reasonable cost. I have found an opportunity for a O-360-A1D at a decent price, but my cowl would require a forward facing horizontal sump which would potentially cause an engine ID data plate mismatch, which would only further complicate things if I added fuel injection to it.

The reason that I ask, is that the insurance company that gave me a quote said they will not ensure the hull unless there is a certified engine on the plane (I would really prefer to have hull insurance if at all possible; or at least the opportunity to obtain it). Furthermore, I am concerned with regard to what a DAR would say to the aforementioned concerns. Is there any work-arounds here? I was told by one guy selling an engine that I needed to buy a Bendix fuel injection system and replace the engine ID data plate with an M1B, but I am not sure that is the right thing to do.




Thanks in advance for your assistance!

First question to ask the insurer is do they mean a factory type engine, be it a Lycoming XIO360 or the same engine but with papers being the IO360 ?

The difference is in my opinion that an certified engine loses its certification once you start installing or maintaining it. So what is the point? Might as well go to Vans and buy the XIO-360 and save many thousands.

This next point is my personal opinion, how much money is there between a XIO360 from Vans and your anticipate budget? If the margin is huge, then maybe you have just discovered you should not have built a plane to begin with or that you need to save up a bit more. There are many ways to save money, but unless you find just the right lucky break, you will be between a rock and a hard place.

My advice is either a Aerosport, Superior or a Vans Lycoming XIO series, and just bite the bullet.

There may be hundreds of other options though.

What they mean is a Lycoming, or Lycoming-type engine (or Continental, I suppose) as opposed to an auto engine conversion, experimental diesel, nuclear powerplant, or stem turbine.

You need to find a more knowledgeable insurance agent. Jenny at Nationair particpates on VAF and there are few that know RV insurance better than her.

I don't think I was even asked if I had an experimental or certified engine in my RV-10. I recently received quotes from 4-5 underwriters. They were only concerned about horse power, since the IO-540 is considered a high performance engine.

An RV is an experimental. Lycoming sells both experimental and certified engines. The only differences between the two are price and data plate. They are functionally the same engine. As soon as you place a non-certifed accessory on the engine, you just made it an experimental. I think would be safe to say that a large number of flying RVs are in that state.

Give Allen or Rhonda at Barrett Performance Aircraft a call ((918) 835-1089 ). They can assist in guiding you through the engine decision. They put engines in many a RV. They are located in Tulsa. With a 360, you have plenty of options.

Yep!

Bob is on the money, here. Your problem is not with the hardware side of this question it is with the software side of the insurance company. Keep plugging on that side till you find an agent that understands.
Yours as always R.E.A. III #80888

Welcome to VAF!

rjp280 said:

Hi All-

I am new to the site -------

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Ryan, welcone to the good ship VAF

rjp280 said:

I would really prefer to have hull insurance if at all possible; or at least the opportunity to obtain it

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Yes, as answered above, they probably only want an aircraft engine.

Been flying a homebuilt for about 20 years. Never had hull insurance. If you take care of business and don't ignore the obvious warnings, it is probably something you'll never need. Liability insurance, maybe. Most public airports require it anyway.

rleffler said:

...As soon as you place a non-certifed accessory on the engine, you just made it an experimental...

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Actually, as soon as you hang the "certified" engine on an experimental airframe and update the aircraft records, the engine is now an experimental.

Limited use

rjp280 said:

they will not ensure the hull unless there is a certified engine on the plane!

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There is a way to change the model number and get a new data plate. I changed a B1E into a B1B (rear to vert induction).

You have to create a form 337 (IA must sign) before Lycoming will issue a new data plate. I am working through this myself but it really has limited use in our market and none that I know of for insurance purposes.