What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Bloody annual - DONE

Scott Hersha

Well Known Member
I finished my annual condition inspection on my RV8 yesterday, and I've stopped bleeding. The bruises will take a while to heal though. I'm talking about injuries inflicted on my hands, arms, and torso while attempting to check torque on the landing gear bolts located in the practically inaccessible corners of the gear towers. But, I'm happy to say, NEVER AGAIN! No, I'm not selling my RV8. I have instead modified those nasty bolts by just turning them around, with the nut on the bottom. BUT - you say - 'you still have to put a wrench on the bolt head to check torque on the nut down below!' Not so fast grasshopper.... not If you have the handy-dandy bolt-holders designed by fellow two time local RV8 builder Bruce Brielmaier. It is essentially a U-shaped receptacle that captures the bolt head on the flats, and prevents it from turning when installed in the RV8 landing gear weldment. I'll try to upload pics to show how it works, but I think you get the idea. These metal receptacles are made out of chromoly steel and have one side of the clip longer than the other. This part either bumps up against a #10 bolt/nut in the weldment, or the edge of the weldment channel, depending on which way it is try to turn while torquing, preventing that from happening. I now torque these rascals from the bottom, all by myself, in maybe 40 seconds. No more bleeding, bruising, and gnashing of teeth. The exposed bolt/nut on the bottom protrudes slightly lower than the bolt head did, but I've never seen an upper intersection fairing that wouldn't easily cover this up.

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg


If you are building your RV8, this would be a good time to install these little jewels. If you've been flying for a while, like me, and want to do the mod, there are a couple things/tricks you should know about first. The first thing is, these bolts don't just slip right out when you take the nut off. They have to be coaxed. I first tried to tap on the bolt with a couple ratchet wrench extensions stuck together and a hammer. This was difficult on the forward bolt, but I got it done. It is impossible on the back bolt for a couple reasons. You do this one bolt at a time with the airplane standing on its gear. Take the bolt out and then reinstall it the other way around and torque it before moving on to the next (aft) bolt. The bolt doesn't just slip back in either - it needs a little help. The aft bolt is more difficult because of lack of visibility, and because the fuel vent line is in the way right above it. When I torqued this one in the past, I had to remove the B-nut on this line and get it out of the way in order to get the universal socket with extension down on the nut. Now, when you go to put the bolt back in from the top, the AN4 bulkhead fitting is also in the way because you need to 'coax' it down into it's hole and that fitting is in the way. There's also a #10 screw/nut just above it that has to be contended with by making sure a flat on the bolt is just in the right position to let it pass by on its way down into the hole. Here's how to tap these bolts out and then back in easily. Use a double offset rivet set in your rivet gun - set at low pressure. It doesn't take a huge amount of force, just a little help. It's a good idea to have a 9/16 stubby open end wrench handy to line up the bolt head flats with the bolt-holder receptacle. This receptacle has to be set in position before inserting the bolt. This part is pretty easy to do.

Now that I've done it and know what to do, I could probably do all 4 bolts in an hours time. First time, I spent 1 1/2 hours on the aft left bolt alone. Bulkhead fitting removed, plus rivet gun instead of hammer saved tons of time.

I'll never have to do this again, and my condition inspection will no longer involve trauma. This issue has created the common modification to the holes in our gear leg towers, and is the only reason I can think of for putting a nose wheel on a beautiful RV8.
 
Last edited:
I've spent more time trying to post pictures on this subject than it took to do the mod. I've tried several times, three different formats, and nothing seems to work. I've posted pics in the past, but it's never been easy, and usually didn't work. If anyone is interested in this mod and would like to see a pic, just let me know and I'll email you some pictures. That method works every time.
 
That idea would be a good one to apply to the engine mount bolts on the firewall for all of the Van's models. It is easy to get to the nut on the engine side, but putting a wrench on the interior side is impossible.
 
handy dandy chromoly steel bolt holders

..."the handy-dandy bolt-holders designed by fellow two time local RV8 builder Bruce Brielmaier. It is essentially a U-shaped receptacle that captures the bolt head on the flats, and prevents it from turning when installed in the RV8 landing gear weldment. ....These metal receptacles are made out of chromoly steel and have one side of the clip longer than the other. This part either bumps up against a #10 bolt/nut in the weldment, or the edge of the weldment channel, depending on which way it is try to turn while torquing, preventing that from happening.

Scott,

Glad to hear you've stopped the bleeding and are recovering. Great write up! Thank you for sharing.

My annual is coming up and I would like to do this mod.

Any chance Bruce Brielmaier can make me some of the "handy dandy chromoly steel bolt holders"?

Thanks,
 
Will not, with time and use, the bolts stretch, washers crush, and contact surfaces indent enough to require re-torqueing?
 
Milt,
Yes you re-torque these things every year. It's no different than with the bolts installed the other way around. The space between the clamp bar material and base will eventually close up - in theory, which would require you to remove some material from the clamp bar stock - like when you built the airplane. It may take 25+ years for this to happen, depending on how big the gap was to begin with, but this is a very gradual wear point because of the flexing of the gear leg. If you lubricate properly, I don't think I'll need to worry about that in my lifetime, and in the mean time, I have an easy way of checking the torque on those bolts.
 
These retainers are working very well. I installed a set in my current build, and Scott just installed in his -8 during the Condition Inspection.

Once installed tightening and re-torque is easily done from under the aircraft instead of threading yourself into it. Then attempting a Bio-mechanical melding of self and socket extensions, hoping to grab a nut you cannot see and your convinced is changing location.

In concept the installation is as easy as removing the bolts and reinstalling oriented from top down instead of bottom up as original Vans instructions. The retainer is about the same thickness as a -L AN washer so the bolt length remains unchanged. What can complicate this process is how cluttered your gear tower is with protruding hardware, wiring, brake lines, and fuel vent tubes.

If there is interest in purchasing, PM me and I can forward info.
 
Still using those weak nuts?

The retainers shown in this thread are a great idea. Good to use 4130, since it is acting as a high-strength washer as well. And use the minimum clearance hole that the bolt will fit through, to maximize the bearing area under the head.

The one alarming thing is to see that anyone is still using the weak NAS679A nuts. Those are not high-strength nuts. We have witnessed the failure mode where under tension, they elastically expand radially enough to "leapfrog" over the threads one at a time. Thus the bolt gets loose, even though the nut never turns, and there is no obvious indication of stripped threads.

There have been several documented cases now of gear leg nuts found loose, and a couple of crashes that have resulted.

I really strongly recommend switching to the NAS1804 high strength nuts.
GAHCO sells them, as do other venders.

The old thread in the archive where we tested them is here:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=42630
 
Been using cut resistant gloves from Ansel = Hyflex. Been a while since my knuckles have been bleedy.

Cut Level 2 rating and they are very flexible allowing good dexterity.

Mike
 
handy-dandy bolt-holders for RV-8 gear bolts

I have instead modified those nasty bolts by just turning them around, with the nut on the bottom. BUT - you say - 'you still have to put a wrench on the bolt head to check torque on the nut down below!' Not so fast grasshopper.... not If you have the handy-dandy bolt-holders designed by fellow two time local RV8 builder Bruce Brielmaier. It is essentially a U-shaped receptacle that captures the bolt head on the flats, and prevents it from turning when installed in the RV8 landing gear weldment. These metal receptacles are made out of chromoly steel and have one side of the clip longer than the other. This part either bumps up against a #10 bolt/nut in the weldment, or the edge of the weldment channel, depending on which way it is try to turn while torquing, preventing that from happening. I now torque these rascals from the bottom, all by myself, in maybe 40 seconds. No more bleeding, bruising, and gnashing of teeth. The exposed bolt/nut on the bottom protrudes slightly lower than the bolt head did, but I've never seen an upper intersection fairing that wouldn't easily cover this up. .

Does anyone have pictures of these bolt holders or a similar devise. Even better does anyone know where I could purchase a set. If I have to make a set I’d love to see a picture of one first so I have a better idea of what is known to work already.
 
Does anyone have pictures of these bolt holders or a similar devise. Even better does anyone know where I could purchase a set. If I have to make a set I’d love to see a picture of one first so I have a better idea of what is known to work already.
Hi John, if you have not already, I recommend having a look at this very helpful thread kicked off by some good research done by Steve Smith.

https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=42630

There are a lot of other threads that talk about solutions to this problem, but it really seems that the root cause is what Steve addresses.

You can find more about the nuts that come with the kit by doing a google search like this:

https://www.google.com/search?&q=site:vansairforce.com+NAS679A6
 
Last edited:
Research..

Hi John, if you have not already, I recommend having a look at this very helpful thread kicked off by some good research done by Steve Smith.

https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=42630

There are a lot of other threads that talk about solutions to this problem, but it really seems that the root cause is what Steve addresses.

You can find more about the nuts that come with the kit by doing a google search like this:

https://www.google.com/search?&q=site:vansairforce.com+NAS679A6


Mickey, thanks I have read those threads as well as several other related ones.
My plane has been flying for ten years now and I want to reverse the bolts to make the torque check easier.
 
Back
Top