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Checklist usage?

What kind of checklist do you use?

  • Checklist from memory

    Votes: 67 22.5%
  • Printed manufacturer's checklist

    Votes: 26 8.7%
  • Electronic (PDA device) manufacturer's checklist

    Votes: 4 1.3%
  • Printed custom checklist

    Votes: 198 66.4%
  • Electronic (PDA device) custom checklist

    Votes: 18 6.0%

  • Total voters
    298

Michael Burbidge

Well Known Member
There was an article in AOPA's Flight Training magazine that discouraged the use of custom checklists. Basically it claimed that the manufacturer knows best. Of course, there is no manufacturer checklists for an RV, but I'm still curious to know what you think about custom checklists in GA flying, and what kind of checklists you've used.
 
I always use a checklist. There have been times when I have landed, dropped someone off, and within minutes, im leaving and opted to skip the checklist, but I still forget to turn the transponder to ALT. :( Now I always use them. I may go through it quicker if I just stopped for fuel or something, but I still do it. Airline pilots use them. Fighter pilots use them. Every pilot SHOULD use them. Just MHO.

As far as which one? Doesnt really matter really as long as it is correct. Some people make their own just because they prefer doing things in different order from the mfg checklist. Which is fine. As long as it still covers everything the original one in the POH does.
 
Once apon a time I was pushing out my uncles c-206 with the use of a towbar attached to the front wheel strut. As I was pushing it out of the hanger a couple guys stoped to say hi and see what I was up to and where I was going. Ten minutes of talking later I figured since I'd just flown the aircraft 2 hours prior and already in a hurry, jumped into the plane and took off without doing a walk around or using the checklist. After finding a dinged propeller blade and a bent towbar on his runway the next day... Uncle Bob was quick to point out checklist item #1, REMOVE TOWBAR
Moral of the story... use an actual checklist, never memorize it.
 
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"Factory Checklists"

There was an article in AOPA's Flight Training magazine that discouraged the use of custom checklists. Basically it claimed that the manufacturer knows best. Of course, there is no manufacturer checklists for an RV, but I'm still curious to know what you think about custom checklists in GA flying, and what kind of checklists you've used.

I composed custom checklists for both my Cessna 182 and my Baron. The factory checklist supplied with the 182 was written by the legal department, not anyone having to fly the airplane. After editing a lot out it became a useable checklist. The Beechcraft was better, but the format was clumsy. The trick is to write a list that covers all the "killer" items and flows with the way you operate the airplane. Write a checklist then edit or correct it. The one I use in my '8' has been through several revisions.

The most important thing is to use a checklist! The human mind hates repetition, you will forget things. Also, don't use it as a "do list" do the tasks first, then run the checklist to check your work.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Member
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
I use checklists religiously...but in a sort of "interactive" way. Read the item on the checklist while doing the action at the same time. Regardless of the item and the "state" of the device, I touch whatever is being referenced (except for gauges and glass). "Fuel selector on fullest tank" - reach down and manually verify that the selector is, indeed, on the fullest tank or switch it if it isn't; etc.

I don't trust my eye-brain connection to always be correct, I want my hands involved as well...as one of my math professors said..."All your brains are in your writing hand...if you don't *write it down*, you won't learn it". :)
 
Thought I had finally perfected my checklist and had it ready for lamination. Note to self: add "towbar removed"

erich
 
I agree with the "touching" comment. Make it a real check of configurations and not just a rote once over.
 
I certainly use it, and when I do I never forget anything!

It is custom designed by me the manufacturer. I got used to the whole enchilada flying helos in the Army, and I like to start it up and check every subsystem as I go.

I swear, every time I don't use it, I forget somthing, and never the same thing.

I have 250 hours on my RV-8 and three years, and I have made two revisions to the CL, and I expect another minor one soon.
 
Flows

I use checklists religiously...but in a sort of "interactive" way. Read the item on the checklist while doing the action at the same time. Regardless of the item and the "state" of the device, I touch whatever is being referenced (except for gauges and glass). "Fuel selector on fullest tank" - reach down and manually verify that the selector is, indeed, on the fullest tank or switch it if it isn't; etc.

I don't trust my eye-brain connection to always be correct, I want my hands involved as well...as one of my math professors said..."All your brains are in your writing hand...if you don't *write it down*, you won't learn it". :)

Another helpful thing is to make the checklist have a "flow," a pattern to the tasks. Up one side of the cockpit, across the panel, and down the other side, for instance.

John S. Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Member
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Absolutely....

I don't trust my eye-brain connection to always be correct, I want my hands involved as well...as one of my math professors said..."All your brains are in your writing hand...if you don't *write it down*, you won't learn it". :)

I have heard that there have been studies done about this. Reading it off a list and your brain thinks you did it just by that action. The towbar example in this thread is a good one. If you did a walk around, everytime, regardless of the checklist, you would catch that 100% of the time. So, put "walk around" on your check list and then actually do it! However, if you put everything involved on your "walk around" on a written checklist, that list would be four pages long alone!
Many believe that a written checklist may actually contribute to oversight when dealing with simple machines. Comparing commercial jet liners with hundreds of specific systems is not really a proper comparison in my opinion.
There are other threads arguing use of written lists or not, so I wont venture there in this one.
 
Simple

I have heard that there have been studies done about this. Reading it off a list and your brain thinks you did it just by that action. The towbar example in this thread is a good one. If you did a walk around, everytime, regardless of the checklist, you would catch that 100% of the time. So, put "walk around" on your check list and then actually do it! However, if you put everything involved on your "walk around" on a written checklist, that list would be four pages long alone!
Many believe that a written checklist may actually contribute to oversight when dealing with simple machines. Comparing commercial jet liners with hundreds of specific systems is not really a proper comparison in my opinion.
There are other threads arguing use of written lists or not, so I wont venture there in this one.

To be effective the checklist should be short and brief. In the airline business we had very simple checklists. The point is to jog your memory, not outline how do do the task. Yes airliners are a little more complex than the average RV, but the same things are going to hurt you. The before takeoff checklist for a 747-400 only has 8 items on it. Same stuff that you should have on any list. OK you might remove one;

"Flight Attendants.....Notified" ;)

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Member
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
CYA?

There was an article in AOPA's Flight Training magazine that discouraged the use of custom checklists.

This sounds a lot like what's happened to Sport Aviation. Used to be that you could find really useful detailed construction information in SA (for example in the Bingelis articles). Now you find a lot of fuzzy articles with conclusions like "always follow manufacturer's recommendations" and "look up the appropriate information in AC43-13B". Not so useful. I assume the reason is fear of lawsuits.

Anyone using CIGAR or some variant?
 
Legal department

This sounds a lot like what's happened to Sport Aviation. Used to be that you could find really useful detailed construction information in SA (for example in the Bingelis articles). Now you find a lot of fuzzy articles with conclusions like "always follow manufacturer's recommendations" and "look up the appropriate information in AC43-13B". Not so useful. I assume the reason is fear of lawsuits.

Anyone using CIGAR or some variant?

I suspect that you are correct. Somebody does something stupid and his/her heirs hire an attorney that finds the "deep pockets" at the EAA. Sadly, it happens. In the case of a production aircraft, I am not advocating reinventing the wheel, just cleaning up existing factory checklists and adding items unique to the particular aircraft. For an RV, find someone's that works for you and edit it for your particular aircraft. Mine started with the checklist from a POH found on the web.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Member
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
John, you and others make several good points, and I'll bet your flying and NTSB experience weighs in heavily!

Absolutely concur that a checklist must be concise, or eventually it'll gather dust as one gets tired of reading a book, and defaults to memory for the "high points". Making it flow logically through the cockpit is a huge enabler of using a checklist. Muscle memory is easily trained if things flow, and the logic of a checklist that supports (follows) the flows makes the checklist all that more usable, and thus more likely to be used (the important part when you're single pilot and "doing, reading and confirming").

In my corporate pilot days, we did a complete re-do of our KingAir and Citation flows and checklists. Started with the manufacturers checklist, and moved things around to make it flow. If memory serves, we did keep most everything in from the mfgrs, just made it usable. We did discuss legalities and "following manufacturers recommendations" as we did it.

My airline's checklists were completely reworked a while back, making them very supportive of (backing up) cockpit flows, and simplying them as much as possible. Items placed on the checklists were primarily items that were either not backed up by warning lights, or items that were backed up by lights, but failure to have the system set up right would result in unsafe operation (like landing gear down, 3 green, on the landing checklist). I'm confident the manufacturer was part of the process in that one as well, and they did a great job!

For the RV, I tried to combine the experience of the corporate redo, the flows of the corporate and airline checklists, the several good RV checklists I've seen out there (some on this site) and some experience from the old CFI days, to come up with something that flows in my cockpit, and that I'd really use in day to day ops.

Still tweaking it, but to provide one answer to the previous poster (on CIGAR)...my run-up checklist is CIGAR, and my landing checklist is GUMPP (flow and checklist). I've seen others mention some other really neat acronyms in other threads here, and I'd just recommend to spend some time with your proposed checklists in the hangar, physically rehearse the flows and checklists for each phase of flight (making airplane noises is authorized), and move things around till it feels good..then go to print on an easy to use checklist that works for you, and that you won't stuff under the seat!! :)

Cheers,
Bob

PS: And you know John, no matter how many times I press the attendant call button in my RV, I can't get a fresh cup o' joe...got a few dirty looks from my bride...but no coffee. Guess I will take that item off the checklist! :)
 
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In the case of a production aircraft, I am not advocating reinventing the wheel, just cleaning up existing factory checklists and adding items unique to the particular aircraft. For an RV, find someone's that works for you and edit it for your particular aircraft. Mine started with the checklist from a POH found on the web.

In many POH's, you'll see references to using full rich for takeoff and landing. And then reading farther, or in some obscure paragraph, the POH will mention leaning at high altitude airports.

At our high altitude airports, you can count on leaning being in the checklist. Usually right after engine start, and certainly before takeoff. Full rich for landing (back at the high alt. airport).............doesn't happen either.

L.Adamson ---- 4602' msl before density altitude
 
I have a checklist for the kitfox in my PDA, GPS. But with over 200hrs a year, that went on the way side. THe panel is so simple, there is really nothing to do. Set altitude indicator, turn on master, pull choke, yell clear, start engine, turn on radio. That's it. As far as pre inspect, I do that the night before, and I look at everything, it's dark and nobody is around, nobody likes me I guess, because nobody bugs me, than again, I have the doors closed and nobody knows I'm there. So I guess it gets done right because I have full attention to it.

The RV, I'll have a printed check list that I will be religious about, much more to do before start up and such. I'll have that in a little pouch right next to the fuel valves I'm sure. I'll still do the nightly check over. One thing that I think is really great, I have a T-hangar and one for each airplane, no chance of someone getting to the aircraft but me, I know, things can happen. That's why I still give it a once around before going flying.

I think after the RV is finished and flying, I'll put a small check list on the panel for the kitfox, just for in case of brain farts, having two airplanes and such.
 
Abbreviated checklist

This is my small (3 1/2 * 5 1/2) --- get to the point-- checklist. I did away with the long version before the first flight. Yet while RV flying; I've seen a fuel cap left off, alternator left off, transponder never on, flaps partially deployed for a good 10 minutes, and canopy not locked. This simple laminated list is quick and helpful.

P.S. --- looks like I may have spelled abbreviated wrong.. :)

L.Adamson --- RV6A

 
Placard

This is my small (3 1/2 * 5 1/2) --- get to the point-- checklist.
L.Adamson --- RV6A


I like this approach. In my plane I have something similar attached to the panel as a placard. Always in view and never gets lost. I have a longer version available as well, but have never needed it.
 
Cup o' joe...

PS: And you know John, no matter how many times I press the attendant call button in my RV, I can't get a fresh cup o' joe...got a few dirty looks from my bride...but no coffee. Guess I will take that item off the checklist! :)

Yeah, me too! Although one of my favorite "back seaters," a lovely lady 737 captain, always responds to my pre-takeoff "are you ready?" with "the cabin is secure captain." Makes me smile every time.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
As required..

In many POH's, you'll see references to using full rich for takeoff and landing. And then reading farther, or in some obscure paragraph, the POH will mention leaning at high altitude airports.

At our high altitude airports, you can count on leaning being in the checklist. Usually right after engine start, and certainly before takeoff. Full rich for landing (back at the high alt. airport).............doesn't happen either.

L.Adamson ---- 4602' msl before density altitude

Good point. This is a place to use the term "as required" or similar wording. Whatever makes the pilot think about the item. Giving a hard value is going to be wrong some of the time in this case.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
This is my small (3 1/2 * 5 1/2) --- get to the point-- checklist. I did away with the long version before the first flight. Yet while RV flying; I've seen a fuel cap left off, alternator left off, transponder never on, flaps partially deployed for a good 10 minutes, and canopy not locked. This simple laminated list is quick and helpful.

P.S. --- looks like I may have spelled abbreviated wrong.. :)

L.Adamson --- RV6A


Following Phase 1 flight, I have not used a written checklist in my RV-6 (~900 hrs) since it has a simple VFR panel and I arranged things on the panel so it lends itself to a good flow check.

However, I like Larry's checklist so much, and since there is empty space on the latest rendition of the panel, the following checklist was printed into 2.5" x 3.5" size and now resides on the panel:

checklist.jpg



I like the idea of the abbreviated list that includes only the stuff most likely to be overlooked. For some reason, a checklist seems a bit more appropriate now that it did a few years ago........ :(
 
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Uh huh....

I like the idea of the abbreviated list that includes only the stuff most likely to be overlooked. For some reason, a checklist seems a bit more appropriate now that it did a few years ago........ :(

Hey, I resemble that remark! :rolleyes:


John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Agree with Scott -- really helpful stuff!

Great ideas for my version 3, and simpler than ever
 
Yeah, me too! Although one of my favorite "back seaters," a lovely lady 737 captain, always responds to my pre-takeoff "are you ready?" with "the cabin is secure captain." Makes me smile every time.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA


I mentioned my wife's mandatory uniform in my RV-8 would be the Braniff skirt and boots...the side of my head still hurts. :eek:


Joe
 
checklist template

Does anyone in the VAF have a Microsoft Word checklist template they're willing to share? Just bought N401R and would like to have a checklist, but would rather fine tune a racing tire than re-invent the wheel.
Thanks,
Curt
 
Yes, always. Pre-takeoff checklist is always done from the printed checklist. Pre-landing is normally done from memory. I fly this way both in the airplane and glider.

TODR
 
I always use a checklist... A real one - not the pilot written one that only has 6 items written on it.

I usually take a commercially available one and modify it with a few of my own notes with a magic marker.

Seeing a pilot not use a checklist or relying on a 6 item convenient one makes me nervous. I've been on a few of those flights, but only once... Never flew with them again.

Whether they're missing things or not in their head, I think a non-existent or intentionally short list reflects poorly on pilots understanding of the risks involved and judgment.

Not saying they're stupid, because that's a matter of opinion. But I am saying I don't care to be dangling in the air at 3,500 and held hostage by their abilities and judgment.

Phil
 
At my company we have been transitioning from a many-item written checklist to checklists that only cover the "killer" items. Let's face it, the RVs are pretty simple airplanes and as long as the engine is running you can pretty much do whatever you want during normal operations and not hurt yourself.
 
Checklists? Yeah, I've got checklists ... somewhere ...

I had to laugh when I saw the poll results. I doubt that very many stalwart souls who read the thread FIRST will admit to not using checklists. :D

I always used a printed checklist in my old Yankee. As simple a plane as it was, I just always did. I was trained to.

Insert thirteen years of building and almost as many not flying ...

Now, with a fancy-schmancy electronic panel with the capability of storing checklists electronically, I dutifully loaded in my checklists, tweaking them as I flew more and found things that I'd missed or items I didn't need on them.

Unfortunately, though, I have yet to remember to check the EFIS for my checklists! D'oh. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the reminder. I think I may make up some laminated checklists to remind me to use the electronic ones ... :D
 
a couple things I've learned along the way.

(a) take the long way around the airplane when getting in...even after the walk-around. Applies to those short stops...ever left the nose chocks in?

(b) don't ever leave the tow-bar attached. Put it on, move the airplane, take it off.

(c) don't ever close the canopy without locking it.

On the bonanza, my line-up check is "3 & 3". Strobes, pitot heat, transponder & mixture, prop, throttle.

Just another data point.

-Jim
 
Every time I skipped check-list I forgot something. Forgto a couple of times take-off flaps, set tx to alt and other few things. Always do check-list now, no matter what.
 
I instruct my flight students to always use a paper checklist on the ground. If they want to make their own they must use the POH and it must contain ALL the items found there, plus anything they want to add to it. We test it together.

In the air we use mnemonics (Includes Before Take off check).

Before Takeoff: T.F.F.-L.C.A.
T - Trim
F - Flaps
F - Fuel (on both or fullest)
L - Lights
C - Camera (transponder)
A - Actions (carb heat off, mixture rich, fuel to the firewall)

As an instructor I do F.A.F. before take off ALWAYS
F - Fuel, selector, Mixture, pump
A - Air, alternate, carb heat, cowl flaps
F - Fire, ignition,

Prior to arrival (10 miles out): W.I.R.E

W - Weather
I - Instruments
R - Radios
E - Environment

Landing (on downwind): B.C.G.U.M.P.S.

B - boost
C - Carb heat
G - Gas
U - Undercarriage
M - mixture
P - Prop, power, primer
S - seatbelts and switches

That is all for VFR. IFR has a whole nother set.
 
Wow... I'm gonna need a checklist just to help with all those mnemonics:eek:

I have a checklist in my RV, adapted from a Piper Archer. I've used it exactly twice... my first two flights, then no more. After that I had a flow and went with it.

The problem with many checklists (IMO) is that they are too long and become a "do" list rather than a "check" list. I suppose this could be a good thing if you're a student pilot, or are low time and don't fly much, or are transitioning to a different airplane. But in my case, I fly quite a lot, a 737 at work and my RV on days off. The RV is so stone simple I can scan the before takeoff "killer" items in just a few seconds using a flow... start lower right, up and across the panel then down the left side. Easy, done.

I'm not sayin' I'm perfect and don't forget things here and there, but my current checklist is just too lengthy... I can see the point of these abbreviated, 10-15 item checklists. I might even make up my own abbreviated list and try using it for a while.

a couple things I've learned along the way.

(a) take the long way around the airplane when getting in...even after the walk-around. Applies to those short stops...ever left the nose chocks in?

(b) don't ever leave the tow-bar attached. Put it on, move the airplane, take it off.

(c) don't ever close the canopy without locking it.

-Jim

All good points. May I add regarding the RV-8 baggage door, if you open it, leave it wide open. If you close it, lock it. I learned this the hard way with a C-310 nose baggage door back in my freight dog days... oops.
 
Ditto.
Lets not make it harder than it is... These airplanes are pretty simple.
Do what ever your comfortable with...
DM

A-300 at night, RV during the day...

Wow... I'm gonna need a checklist just to help with all those mnemonics:eek:

I have a checklist in my RV, adapted from a Piper Archer. I've used it exactly twice... my first two flights, then no more. After that I had a flow and went with it.

The problem with many checklists (IMO) is that they are too long and become a "do" list rather than a "check" list. I suppose this could be a good thing if you're a student pilot, or are low time and don't fly much, or are transitioning to a different airplane. But in my case, I fly quite a lot, a 737 at work and my RV on days off. The RV is so stone simple I can scan the before takeoff "killer" items in just a few seconds using a flow... start lower right, up and across the panel then down the left side. Easy, done.

I'm not sayin' I'm perfect and don't forget things here and there, but my current checklist is just too lengthy... I can see the point of these abbreviated, 10-15 item checklists. I might even make up my own abbreviated list and try using it for a while.



All good points. May I add regarding the RV-8 baggage door, if you open it, leave it wide open. If you close it, lock it. I learned this the hard way with a C-310 nose baggage door back in my freight dog days... oops.
 
Ditto.
Lets not make it harder than it is... These airplanes are pretty simple.
Do what ever your comfortable with...
DM

A-300 at night, RV during the day...

Almost the same exact reply I wrote, then deleted yesterday.

I have not used a checklist since my Private checkride... But I sure don't fault those that feel they need them either. Whatever works!
 
I think I'm going to put myself in the hotseat. A big checklist is for those that don't fly much and need one to figure out how to start the airplane. :)

Or those who fly IFR and know just how important it is to have the airplane properly configured before you get into the air.
 
All my checklists are in my D-10A and I always use 'em. Only time I didn't, I left the canopy unlatched and did an aborted takeoff--good practice, but once is enough. My favorite flight instructor uses a checklist before he even leaves his house. He never forgets his sunglasses, keys to the plane, or anything else. I think seeing him do that has inspired lots of students to use the checklist.

BTW, I consider paper lists just something else to misplace and therefore ignore. YMMV.

Bob Kelly
 
The issue is that sloppy use of a checklist leads to a pilot who's willing to accept being sloppy.

I expect every flight to be perfect - starting with a complete pre-flight and ending with tying down the aircraft with perfect knots. Anything less than perfect is sloppy - and I'm never okay with settling for anything sloppy or less than perfect. That includes using a real checklist.

Not saying I'm perfect. But if you aim for perfection and miss, you're probably going to be okay. If you settle for sloppy and miss, you're tearing something expensive up (best case) or dead.

There's absolutely no reason to settle for anything less.

These little planes will kill you faster than the big ones. They do every day.
 
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...These little planes will kill you faster than the big ones. They do every day.

...and so do slips in the shower... should we make a checklist for that?

As a systems engineer I write a lot of processes, and if there is one thing I've learned it's that personality as much as anything determines whether a process is valuable to the individual or not... In short, you need "buy in". Even a well written process is of no use if the person feels like the action is "serving" the process instead of the other way around. In other words, the process must add value to the action, or it becomes a hindrance to that person. If a checklist helps someone to remember to check the fuel level before takeoff, by all means use one! On the other hand, someone else might find that a checklist destroys the natural flow of their thought process and becomes a distraction.

Bottom line: This is an area of flying that really has no wrong answer. Some people should really use a checklist before they get out of bed, while others could likely complete a space shuttle mission from memory... Do what works for you.
 
Glad to hear that not using a checklist has gotten others in trouble as well. Like the canopy thing ...

"CLEAR!" I shouted and monitored the engine as it warmed up. It was warm outside and I wanted to taxi with the canopy open a bit, but the prop blast hitting my mike was echoing in my headset and distracting me as I studied the EMS, so I just pushed the canopy closed.

Taxied out, did my runup -- something didn't sound quite right, but I couldn't figure out why. Everything looked good. Temps were all coming up OK. So, checked my fuel selector, made sure flaps were up, flipped on the boost pump and hit ALT on the transponder ...

As I climbed out, something was DEFINITELY not right. Engine was strong, but there was TOO MUCH NOISE in the cockpit! Even my Bose headset didn't quiet the noise. Then I identified the source -- I hadn't latched the canopy!

I throttled back a bit, leveled off and set altitude hold on the AP, and pushed the canopy closed ALL the way and latched it. Whew!

Like slyfox, I seem to forget something everytime I don't use a checklist.
 
Yeah I agree, Michael...

Kinda funny.. I spent 13 years as a Systems Engineer too. :)

I think the big planes are safer because of 2 pilot cockpits, tight company policies, tight procedures, and teams of people for maintenance, weather, paper work, and briefings. None of us have that level of attention in our little planes. But mostly of all, I agree company policy and procedures are the greatest risk mitigation tools.

I just get a little bent out of shape when people think they're immune to behavior that we'd all classify as stupid when in reality it isn't necessarily stupidity - it's just some poor judgment that led up to a major problem.

I'm married to a Ph.D psychologist and her focus area is this exact behavior. So it's something that gets talked about every day in our house and we both get to do some consulting with other businesses who help eliminate this behavior in industrial environments.

There's reproducible evidence (I guess it has to be reproducible to be considered scientific) that defines the functional limits of a human brain. There's nothing we can do to expand those limits and we're all bound by exactly the same limits. The brain is a weird thing and it does some weird stuff that is completely beyond our control.

So working from that premise, the checklist isn't there because anyone is stupid or because they're a bad pilot. It's just a matter of recognizing that the brain isn't predictable and shouldn't be counted on in high risk environments.

Nice comment on getting out of bed..... I got out of bed 2 days ago and threw my back out immediately. Now I'm hobbling around the office and trying to sit up straight. So yeah, I could us a checklist for that too.... Good timing... :D
 
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Couple of added points. Who uses a written checklist and diagram to do their external walkaround inspection on their personal RV?

Personally, I check the flight controls three times and check the canopy lock twice between startup and takeoff every time I fly. Don't see these, or any other critical ones, listed more than once in the sequence on these written checklists. And please don't say items are never missed on checklists - particularly with single pilot ops.

Humans are terribly unreliable. Multiple critical items on one list being carried out by one person. Some would say that's a long shot.

As for when a written check list should be used, there's no one answer. Each scenario and pilot has different ansers and degrees of complexity. IFR, VFR, familiarity with the plane, giving dual, leaving a big fly-in, or an after work flight leaving your personal locked hangar.
 
Phil,

We?re in complete agreement that many forms of a formalized process have reduced accidents and fatalities when complex activity is involved. There are certainly limits to what the brain can deal with in these situations. My point (and again, I think we?re in agreement here) is simply that people are not in agreement defining ?complex activity?. While far from cavalier about safety, I don?t view this type of flying as any more complex than driving, riding a motorcycle, or taking the boat out (but I don't fault those that do, either). Interestingly, all of those earth-based activities kill far more people than aircraft. If checklists are the answer, perhaps we should focus on them?

Bottom line once again: Just as checklist use isn?t the sole mark of a good pilot, the lack of a checklist is not an indication of a bad pilot?

JMHO - Anybody on this board who thinks checklist usage (or not) constitutes absolute right/wrong, good/bad, or safe/reckless, has a lot to learn about human behavior.
 
I thought I'd download the 2009 NTSB accident database.

Yes, for those of you who like the raw data, you can do that. It can be found here:

http://www.ntsb.gov/avdata/

You just have to know how to work Microsoft Access, understand a bit about relational databases, and you can query the data well beyond the standard NTSB data query tool on their site.

I just ran a search and queried ATP pilots only, fatal accidents, and displayed the aircraft type. Here's the list.

ATP_Fatal_2009.jpg


I have a close personal friend who's an ATP pilot and his accident was listed as a serious injury but he died later. So I ran a list on Serious injuries too.

SERS_ATP_2009.jpg


Take a look through the numbers and you'll see that these small planes claim the lives of very experienced pilots much faster than any big iron airplane.

Couple that with ATP's spending many more hours in 2009 at the controls of the big iron than they did in the small stuff. They could fly the big stuff for the next decade and still not even touch the fatal accident total in 1 year of small plane flying.

The proof is in the numbers. For some reason, these simple machines are better at claiming lives than the complex ones....

We have it right when we're in the big airplanes, following company policies and procedures, spending time practicing, working in a dual pilot cockpit, etc.....

The issue is when we take these little, simple, not-so-complex airplanes for granted....
 
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I am not too proud to say that I use checklists. Sometimes a mnemonic, sometimes on paper. Good luck passing a check ride without the use of a checklist. Seems the FAA examiner's feel it's important.
 
Mostly from memory except......

...my before takeoff check list which I read off my Dynon D10.

I do have checklists in my POH which I update on a regular basis. I keep the POH handy in the cockpit in the same binder with a few approach plates, flight plan, map fragments, etc. In a pinch, I could use them in flight.

Actually this poll gave me the idea of putting my checklists on my Droid so I'll probably do that.
 
I notice on several sample checklists a few items that might be considered differently.
Example:

Flaps-Retracted; for short fields, I use 15* of flap. (Actually I use 15* always. The quicker I'm off the ground, the less I'm wearing the tires.) I might suggest:
Flaps-As Required

Mixture-Rich; for higher elevations, this is incorrect. I might suggest:
Mixture-As Required

Just my $.02
 
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Mel's $.02

Mel makes a very valid point, checklists shouldn't be "do" lists, or for that matter, instructions. They should be memory joggers You know how to do the task, the question is did you accomplish it this time? In his example of flaps, saying "as required" on the checklist makes you look, and think, about the flap setting.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
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