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Route advice sought

tcoverst

Active Member
Looking for any and all route and weather advice you want to offer.
My situation: I fly a RV9A with fixed pitch O-320 with autopilot and ifr capability - no oxygen. I am instrument rated with about 300 hours - mostly over the flat midwest. I have flown over the Appalachian mountains several times but otherwise have limited mountain experience. I just moved from central IL to northern AZ. Given my equipment and experience, I am looking for the best route and plan from 3MY in Illinois to KCMR in Williams, AZ. I gotta get the plane out here before I can start improving my mountain flying!
The flat midwesty parts of the trip will be fine - but looking for the best ideas for going through the mountains to final destination.
1. Route suggestions?
Maybe stay north and enter the mountains from Amarillo and fly over I-40 - but peaks are a bit higher so mtn waves will be too.
Maybe go south to El Paso and skim the border - but lots of moa’s and it is not as direct.
2. Weather tips?
What is the best predictor of mtn waves? Wind speed? Direction? I have read lots of you Rocky Mtn flyers descriptions of wind patterns and predictions etc - really helpful stuff - thank you for posting. Anything else I can look for on the ground to increase the odds of an easy flight over the mountains?
Thanks for any ideas you have.
Tim
 
My advice, worth what you’re paying for it:
1. Buy portable O2 , now, before you leave. Get canulas, oxygen conserving. Get a pulse oxymeter. Based in Northern AZ you’ll want to own these things anyway.
2. -9 likes to fly high.
3. If vfr, winds aloft less than 20 knots, go direct, with a few small deviations to go thru passes/not over highest peaks. Plan 14,500’, on O2, for the high areas.
4. Going direct KAMA, then due west direct Williams, is a good alternate. It will add an hour compared to (3).
5. When planning fuel stops, keep density altitudes in mind. DA above 5,000’ it may be necessary to lean for best power on takeoff. Use the airspeed indicator! On final approach and rotation speed, it will look faster than you’re used to because it is!
6. You may want a stop just east of the mountains where there’s a hotel, in case you’re tired or the winds are strong. It’s generally more calm/less turbulent early in the day.
Have fun! Looks like a nice trip.
 
The I40 option would be a easy flight.. Just pick a day with nice weather and you'll be fine..
 
On a recent trip back from Florida to Los Angeles we stopped the night at KAMA and at the FBO we ran into a nice couple flying an RV-9A. We ended up having dinner with them at "The Big Texan Steak Ranch" which has a complementary limo service to the hotels. We had a great evening! If you decide to stop, check out the steak house. Also it would be a good stop for you so you could leave early in the morning and not have to deal with all the turbulence and thunderstorms that come in the afternoons.
 
I have flown this route numerous times. KDHT-TAFOY-LACRO-NELGE-GARTY-ZUN-KCMR. Enter this into Foreflight and look at the profile view. Just fly when it is VFR and surface winds less than 25kts. Here is a route that will keep your terrain under 8K ft. I too suggest you invest in an oxygen system. You will use is quite often once you get settled in your new location. Last time I made this trip I stoped at Dalhart (KDHT), which used to have a very nice restaurant on the field.
 
Illinois to Arizona

I am in agreement with all of the previous posts, with one addition, remember if the engine fails you are committed to land, that is why when I have flown this route four times, (Citabria, Acro Sport, 172, 182) I always fly IFR, “I follow roads”, as close to I 40 as you can legally fly will usually give you a good off field landing site and the quickest help if needed. I go direct with two jet engines and pressurization and FL450
 
I like your attitude! I paid some mountain flying dues based out of Prescott, AZ, for four years in a Cessna 175 with 180HP and a constant speed prop, but that airport is about 2,000 feet lower than Williams. A few more suggestions / comments / ideas:
* For mountain clearance, one good source says 1,000 feet per 10 knots of wind. Above 30 knots, don't. Given the relatively light wing loading of the RV-9A, I'd stop at 20.
* Look at a couple of videos on mountain flying. Pay particular attention to temperature / dew point spread, virga, dry downbursts, etc.
* For my taste, the RV-9A is one of the less crosswind-capable aircraft because if you approach faster, you'll only float longer. (I've got 300+ in mine).
* Be conservative if things start to look even slightly questionable. The closest airport is often on the other side of those mountains over yonder, so your options can disappear quickly. Once you've got local experience, you'll be better able to read the cues.
* I just upgraded my -9A to a constant speed prop. It made a world of difference on takeoff and climb, and greatly improved deceleration on landing. Strongly recommended if your crankshaft will take it. It will be worth maybe 30HP on takeoff.
* Feel your way along as to what your airplane will do with what load in what conditions.
* Find a local instructor if you can to learn more about mountain flying.
* There's mountain flying and then there's mountain flying. Even after four years experience in Arizona, when I looked at the high mountain passes in Colorado, I decided not to attempt it.
* Definitely second the idea on portable oxygen with pulsed delivery. Everybody's hypoxia tolerance and symptoms are different. My physiology really likes O2 at 8,000...
* Think seriously about survival gear, especially water.
* Seriously consider XM weather instead of just ADS-B.
* High density altitude on the ground can limit your aircraft's ceiling. One summer day in the Cessna, I was cleared to 12,000 but couldn't get past 11,300.

Lastly, enjoy it like mad! That's one of my favorite parts of the country. Seligman is a wonderful tourist trap, walking distance from the airport. Phoenix controllers have not always been friendly, but sometimes they have. Don't know if the coffee shop at Prescott survived the new airline terminal being built. Good coffee shop at Payson.

I'm a little bit jealous...
 
Hi Tim, My advice is not good since I live here. With that in mind, my suggestions for a flat lander making this trip during the summer months are as follows:
1. Once into the mountains, fly EARLY (as in 5-6am). Plan to be on the ground by noon. After noon expect hot and rough.
2. If forecast wind at 18k is 50kts or more (over the mountains), stay on the ground. (https://aviationweather.gov/windtemp/plot) This is regardless of the altitude at which you will be operating. This is a good indicator that the air will be rough due to the mixing action caused by the mountains.
3. If you follow rule #1, thunderstorms are unlikely to be an issue (assuming there isn't an obvious weather system). Thunderstorms build in the afternoon and you can see them for a 100 miles (unlike flying back east).
4. Routing to LVS (Las Vegas, NM) and then generally following I-40 is a good option. You can easily make that flight at less than 10k MSL and there are a number of good stops if required.
5. Be mentally prepared for high density altitude operations. That means very reduced take-off and landing performance. The ground is moving fast at landing and the climb is oh.so.slow after takeoff. Don't rush it.
6. Be mentally prepared to be indicating high altitude (e.g. 8,500' MSL) but skimming the ground.
7. Lean for taxi-takeoff-climb (once in the high ground). This varies a bit from airplane to airplane so know your airplane.
8. Assuming VFR, there are many times that the autopilot/altitude hold should be turned off. You will find it diving towards the ground (in up currents) and pointing the nose straight up (in down currents). Just let the airplane do its thing if you encounter this. Trying to maintain altitude plus or minus 100' is silly in these conditions (IMO).

I understand that some folks prefer operating up in the flight levels but it really isn't necessary. I do nearly all of my flying out here at less than 10k. Obviously, one must go around or over the rocks.
 
Route

Direct to Dalhart is my standard routing from IL and WI
Watch out for variable wind direction and velocity at DHT. If it doesn't look right go around.
If no ADS B and above 10k go north of the ABQ Charlie airspace.
You may want to stop at Las Vegas NM or Santa Fe. Otherwise you will be dealing with single runway airports and if there is any wind at all the odds ar it will be crosswind.
Overnight at Dalhart would be an option. That would put you at Williams early in the day.
I would limit winds aloft at 18k to 25 knots.
You might consider parking the airplane at Holbrook for the first few weeks. Much more user friendly than Williams.
No ADS B in the mountains is a problem. The regulation says unless within 2500' of terrain. They do not define how to determine that. Do they expect you to climb over a mountain, then descent below 10k and then climb over the next mountain?? FAA is on record threatening revocation of certificate for ADS B violation. Except for the ABQ Charlie the 1 40 route can be flown as low as 8500'. Not recommending this but it can be done. I did ABQ-GUP in light twins for five years. Couple of interesting times at Grants/Mount Taylor with mountain wave but 95% uneventful. We flew 95% of the time except in extreme surface winds or severe icing.
Order a O2 from Sporty's and have it shipped direct to your departure point.
 
Route

Forgot to mention from DHT go direct to TCC which will put you over I40, then north of the ABQ Charlie if necessary, then I40 the rest of the way.
 
Thanks and looking forward to it

Thanks all for the advice and experiences. I just picked up pulse ox and will work on O2 next. I typed in each of your route suggestions and it does look like there are passable ways without going all the way down to El Paso - weather dependent obviously. If I do it solo I will definitely overnight at DHT to get an early jump on the conditions from there. Keeping Holbrook in my hip pocket as an alternate if Williams does not feel right for any reason. Great weather tips too - gives me some specific cutoffs for searching for my weather window.
Obviously, I welcome any other thoughts, but wanted to say thanks a bunch for sharing your experiences to those who have chimed in. Looking forward to a great x-country!
 
Been to Dalhart too

I see lots of people have been through Dalhart on this route. me too. One thing though, it seems like all the lodging in Dalhart is within 2 blocks of the railroads. And from experience I can tell you the trains come through hourly, blowing the horn at every level crossing in the town! IOW, not on my list to overnight at again :D
 
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