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Thoughts on Building Assistance

acpilot

Well Known Member
Patron
I am getting closer to starting an RV build. I have gone back and forth on various models, building vs buying etc. and believe building is the best route for me. I am probably still a few years away from being totally ready to enjoy the RV lifestyle so I figure a build will fill that gap. Also ,I don't think hangar space near me is that plentiful so I will have to wait for that as well. I figure it will be a couple of years before I am at the stage that I would require a hangar so a build makes sense. I have basically settled on the RV-7A as I like the idea of a tricycle gear a hope that my kids may some day use it to learn to fly.

I have never built anything like an RV before and am quite intrigued with the various assisted building courses. I think it would be an excellent way to start my kit and learn valuable building skills. It will also be nice to use certain tools and decide which are the correct ones to purchase. I really like the idea of someone with experience taking me through the overwhelming experience of a crate of metal to a finished empennage in a week or so. I have seen 2 that are fairly close to me, Axsysair (WA) and Synergy Air (OR). If anyone has any advice on starting a build this way they would be very much appreciated.

Thanks
 
Impossible to answer for someone else, but if you think you need it, you probably do. And possibly, even if you don't. ;-)

Seriously, if you have a well developed skillset using tools and reading/following directions, and you have some local support like a good EAA chapter, you can do it without a paid assistance program. But those programs will almost certainly get you up to speed a lot quicker.

BTW, being near the end on my -7 and seeing the start of a -14, I'd put good money on the -14 being a lot easier/quicker to build, just because of better docs.
 
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Mentor

Building is not magic. Anyone can learn it. One of the classes is great but I've always been a proponent of finding a skilled Mentor. I can't count the amount of money and mistakes my Mentor saved me.
 
..... I have seen 2 that are fairly close to me, Axsysair (WA) and Synergy Air (OR). If anyone has any advice on starting a build this way they would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Went to Synergy last November to build my empennage.

If you have a spouse or friend who is interested in helping, there no additional charge to have them with you when your there. My wife had a great time learning all the basics.

If you do go, take the fundamental class, usually on the Saturday before the empennage class starts. The fundamental class introduces you to all the tools and you complete a practice kit in one day.

One of the benefits of working with all the different tools is you learn which one you think are needed and the ones that are just a luxury. You won't waist your money on unnecessary ones.

Even though I'm an A&P (hadn't worked as one for over 25 years) I really thought I came away with new skills.

I was a great experience and I can't say enough about Synergy Air.

If one builds their whole kit at Synergy, it can be expensive but I thought the fundamental and empennage classes were a great value.
 
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Synergy is an option, as mentioned, and a great one at that. You can also order the tool kit from van's and build it. You might be surprised. :)
We ALL had to learn at one time, and the kits 40 years ago were a WHOLE lot different than they are now. The RV-14 and RV-12 (and even the RV-10) are pretty much assembly manuals. There are no blueprints. If you can build something from Home Depot or Lowes, for sure you can build these. You even get to fly it when you are finished. :)

There is so much help these days, from things like these forums, to Tech Counselors and other builders. Most are just a phone call or FaceTime away from getting your questions answered.

Take the first step and build the tool kit. It will be the start of a wonderful journey. :)

Yes, I'm the Van's rep, but I get nothing whether you buy a kit or not. I've been encouraging builders for decades before Van's made me official. I'm encouraging you from my heart.

Vic
 
Synergy Air Recommendation

I highly recommend the Synergy Air Empennage Class!

Even though I have been involved in auto mechanics, woodworking, plumbing, etc. all my life and am an engineer, I still took the Synergy Air empennage class to start my RV-10 project. I found it to be a great way to learn a variety of ways to accomplish the build, working with several of the Synergy Air A&Ps during my 8 days there. It was a great learning experience and helped me to be able to confidently continue the build once I got home. And it was a great introduction to a variety of tools that helped me decide which to purchase as a starting point.

I also took the EAA Sport Air sheet metal workshop ahead of the Synergy Air class, which helped me learn some of the basics. But you get essentially the same thing with the Synergy Air Saturday intro class.

Yes, it costs both time away from home and money. But it helped me avoid the typical early builder mistakes. For me, it was well worth the cost.

Best of luck with your new project.
 
I really like the idea of someone with experience taking me through the overwhelming experience of a crate of metal to a finished empennage in a week or so. I have seen 2 that are fairly close to me, Axsysair (WA) and Synergy Air (OR). If anyone has any advice on starting a build this way they would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

I did an RV building course with Axsys Air before starting my build, back in 2015. They ran the course even though I was the only student (I paid for a couple and brought my son along). It was an excellent introduction for me and gave me the confidence to get a good start on the project. We built the Vans practice airfoil which gave a pretty good overview for a lot of the earlier parts of the build. The location was great, much closer for you in Langley than it is for me from Central Alberta.

As far as building the whole empennage in a short period of time - you'll have one hurdle coming from Canada. The pre-cover inspection. You won't be able to completely close up the empennage unless you arrange for an inspection down there before coming back - probably not a practical idea. I bought my project already started so I didn't have much to do on the empennage. I think I would have preferred starting from scratch since the empennage is such a good learning opportunity. The empennage also has the benefit of being much less expensive to make mistakes on.
 
Something else to consider with Synergy and others, there is a riveting partner there when you are ready!:D
 
I had never bucked, driven, or squeezed a rivet before starting my 7A project. I did have good mechanical and electrical skills. I went to an EAA RV assembly weekend seminar to learn the basic skills. I knew I would need a partner to assist and buck rivets, so my husband also attended to learn skills to assist. There is a lot of help on this forum and classes to attend to learn skills. I would spend the money on education and build on. You can invest in the tail kit at a reasonable cost and test your skills and learn that way.

Roberta:)
 
Flying Canuck

Thanks for the info on the inspection, didn't think of that. I am new to this whole build process. Does the inspection need to be done by a Canadian Inspector and if so how do I schedule one? Is there a document that I can download that explains at which stages I need to have an inspection?
 
A few thoughts to add here...

MD-RA can delegate pre-cover inspection to a DAR in the US. It's a royal pain in the keester to set it up if you're doing something other than a 'factory' program like Glasair's Two Weeks To Taxi. And it's not cheap. I don't think it would make sense to jump through all the hoops of a DAR delegation from MD-RA unless one was doing pre-cover on the entire airplane.

If you're wondering about assistance, have you found an EAA or RAA chapter in your area? If not, get hooked up with one. Often there's somebody (or several somebodies) who would be quite happy to give you some "hands on" experience building their aircraft. If you were in the nation's capital you could come out to our EAA chapter and help build our chapter project.

One doesn't necessarily have to go whole-hog when it comes to assistance. Check your local area, find out what resources are locally available and then go from there.

Also, don't underestimate the value of purchasing a partially-completed kit. As long as it's well built and well documented, particularly vis-a-vis the MD-RA, you can save a bunch of time and effort.
 
I expect you can find someone locally to offer this, however if not, you are welcome to come up to Salmon Arm. I can show you the tools I used to build my Rocket, we can drive a few rivets (I have lots of scrap), play with some fiberglassing, discuss various aspects of building, show you my plane, and weather permitting go for a flight.

I don't consider myself a master craftsman, however the professionals who have inspected my plane have been complimentary so it seems acceptable. There were a few things I did more than once to get a decent end result (still have some of those scraps around also).
 
Experience with Synergy Air

I started to build an RV-10 from partially built kits I bought from a couple of sources. The build quality was not great and I didn't initially have the skills to fix someone else's work. I sold all of the kits after deciding to start with new parts.

I attended an EAA SportAir workshop on RV building during AirVenture a couple of years ago. The class was crowded, the instructors skilled but stretched pretty thin, the tools were poor quality and I came away knowing only a little bit more than I did at the start. I wasn't impressed.

I later traveled 2600 miles to Eugene, OR to attend the Synergy Air Fundamentals class on a Saturday and then start a new RV-10 empennage the following Monday. I learned more in the first four hours of the Synergy fundamentals class than I did the entire two days at EAA. The class was reasonably priced, the class size small, the instructor was knowledgeable, patient and right there the whole time. Synergy provided lunch and Van's gave a $50 coupon for a parts order. I had a lot more confidence coming out of that class and we built a really nice empennage and tail cone in the following two weeks.

I enjoyed working with Synergy so much I went back a few months later and "quick built" an RV-10 fuselage from a slow build kit. Took three weeks and the build quality exceeded the quick built fuselage one of Synergy's customers had ordered. We used the QB fuselage as a 3D "model" when the plans were not totally clear.

I put the RV-10 project on the back burner and bought a partially built RV-7A project. I had that shipped to Synergy and we have been working on it since January. In retrospect, I should have started new. We had to rebuild the tail feathers, the canopy and even the QB flaps. We should finish it next month and then it will be truck shipped back to Locust Grove for final assembly, inspection and Phase I test flying. I would have flown it at Synergy but the weather in the PNW is lousy for several months - so it was more cost effective to bring it back home to fly.

Synergy has plans to open a facility in the S.E. U.S and I plan to complete the RV-10 with them there.

If you can't tell, I'm a huge fan. Yes it costs more, but for a first time builder like me, there was no way to achieve the build quality I wanted without the assistance of a company like Synergy. There is almost nothing they haven't seen (my Bill Lane plenum was an exception). If the technician you are working with has a question or concern, they reach out to the others in the hangar. Someone there usually has the answer. They operate as a team, they all look over each other's projects and they take great pride in helping you achieve your goals. Not only are they technically competent, they are patient and great teachers. It's a unique combination of talents.

They are a wonderful group of people, I look forward to traveling to Oregon every time and I can't recommend them highly enough.

I can't answer the challenge of required Canadian inspections, but I suspect Synergy may have a solution for that.
 
My understanding is it will be around June or July of next year. The challenge right now is finding a suitable facility that they can get up and running by then. They have identified the location and we have been working with them on finding the right hangar. Thanks for asking!
 
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