What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Ground Run for 15 minutes

blueflyer

Well Known Member
I was looking at the attached Lycoming service manual for break-in after overhaul. It says to ground run the engine at 1500 RPM for 15 minutes.

I have read all the archives about keeping ground runs to a minimum, so I am confused. I thought the general consensus was to keep ground runs to a minimum.

Do people really ground run their engines for 15 minutes during break-in?

http://www.lycoming.com/support/publications/service-instructions/pdfs/SI1427C.pdf
 
We ran our factory Lycoming engine for 90 seconds on the ground. The next day we cowled it up, taxied 5 minutes, quick runup, then took off and flew max power for an hour and a half.

I think the steel cylinders may tolerate ground running more than the chrome or nickel versions, but we didnt fool around. Get cylinder pressure on the rings ASAP.
 
I have done that

I followed this procedure for a 160hp O-320 installed on a cub. Check calibration of your cht against boiling water. I motored the engine without the top plugs installed until I got an oil pressure reading. First run was into the wind on a cool morning. I think it should be done PROVIDED that no engine limits are exceeded. The frictional losses/forces are going to be highest during this first run until things wear in. You may find silver paint slivers it the oil screen after the first run, I did (it had primer on the other side and was soft). I believe the first flight @ 75% power makes sure there are high enough cylinder pressures to make the rings slide to the bottom of the piston ring land on the power stroke so the pressure can get behind the ring and push it out, seating it. And the power is not so high that the increased friction of a new engine, and power, drive the temps up.
I think it would be worth renting a club to swing if you can't keep it cool enough. I don't like the idea of taking off with an engine that hasn't shown it can go 15 minutes without making metal.
 
Last edited:
What jetdriven said.

For engines that have not run on the builder's test stand, I wouldn't fool around with ground runs. (Even if run on a test stand, be careful.)

I've done a couple, and I have learned to limit starts to 2 minutes or 200 degrees CHT (which ever first).

#1 - intended to find oil leaks - let it completely cool down

#2 - intended to prove it can do takeoff power - let it completely cool down.

If you can't taxi to runway and go within 2 minutes, tow it cold. Then fly it like you stole it.

Initial ring seating will be in about 3/10ths of an hour and you'll see the temps (both CHT and EGT) drop pretty uniformly.

Dan
 
Minnesota requires an hour on the engine - on the airframe!

My state requires an hour on the engine - on the airframe!

My engine was run for an hour at the Factory. They manage cooling. It's OK to ground run your engine if you are instrumented and know what temperatures you are running.

I did multiple runs, some as long as 15 minutes. Somewhere there is (was) a nice article that Mahlon Russel did about ground runs and temperatures. If I can put my hands on it, I will post a link. Basically, if you manage cooling, you don't impact break in.

I followed these instructions and all is well. I just finished Phase I yesterday and my engine burns < 1 quart in 10 hours. It broke in nicely around 5 hours in the air.
 
Some breakin info part I

Hope this helps!This is how I would do the initial runs. I have used this procedure thousands of times with complete success.
Good luck,
Mahlon

CYLINDER RUN-IN INSTRUCTIONS FOR CHANNEL CHROME,
CERMICROME, AND CERMINIL BARRELS

1] Install mineral oil in ALL normally aspirated engines and all Teledyne Continental turbocharged engines. Install AD oil in all Textron Lycoming turbo charged engines.

2] Start engine, run at 800 R.P.M.'s for three (3) minutes, shut down, check for leaks.

3] Start engine, run at 1,000 R.P.M.'s for three (3) minutes, shut down, check for leaks.

4] Cowl aircraft.

5] Start engine, run at 1,200 R.P.M.'s for three (3) minutes, shut down, park into wind.

6] Start engine, run at 1,400 R.P.M.'s for three (3) minutes, shut down, park into wind.

7] Start engine, run at 1,400 R.P.M.'s for five (5) minutes, run up to full power, check all engine parameters, retard power to 1,000 R.P.M. for one (1) minute, shut down.

8] Check for leaks The engine has now had it's Test Cell run time and is ready for other ground runs, taxi tests, adjustment runs, etc., observing the precautions from the post

All runs should be made into the wind.

At no time during these runs should CHT exceed 350F.

Between all engine runs, allow adequate cool off time.

Before proceeding to next run, you should be able to hold your hand on a rear cylinder head for three to five seconds.

CYLINDER RUN-IN FOR STEEL,
NITRIDED OR REBARRELED CYLINDERS

1] Install mineral oil in the engine.

2] Start engine, run at 800 R.P.M.'s for three (3) minutes, shut down, check for leaks.

3] Start engine, run at 1,000 R.P.M.'s for three (3) minutes, shut down, check for leaks.

4] Cowl aircraft.

5] Start engine, run at 1,200 R.P.M.'s for three (3) minutes, shut down, park into the wind.

6] Start engine, run at 1,400 R.P.M.'s for five (5) minutes, shut down, park into wind.

7] Start engine, run at 1,400 R.P.M.'s for ten minutes, shut down, park into wind.

8] Start engine, run at 1,400 R.P.M.'s for five (5) minutes, run up to full power, check all engine parameters, retard power to 1,000 R.P.M. for one (1) minute, shut down.

9] Check for leaks The engine has now had it's Test Cell run time and is ready for other ground runs, taxi tests, adjustment runs, etc., observing the precautions from the post

All runs should be made into the wind.

At no time during these runs should CHT exceed 350F.

Between all engine runs, allow adequate cool off time.

Before proceeding to next run, you should be able to hold your hand on a rear cylinder head for three to five seconds.

This is some information on running after completing the above schedule:
Knowing this crucial information allows us to make practical decisions regarding ground runs and flight profiles from the new or newly overhauled engine point of view.
To put it simply, if we get the ring to cylinder interface too hot from too hard of running, lack of cooling or another reason we will glaze the cylinder walls and prevent actual break in from occurring. Because, we are dealing with multiple independent cylinders on the engine, these conditions can happen to one cylinder, all cylinders or anything in between on the same engine. So our job above all other aspect of engine operation during the break in phase, is to keep the cylinder's as cool as possible. If we do this we will not have any problems or issues with the engine as far as break in goes. During any and all ground runs we should limit the duration and actual temps we encounter to prevent glazing from happening. We tell our customers to keep all ground runs less than 10 minutes. Don't run the engine above 2000 RPM unless you are doing a momentary full power check, high speed taxi tests or actual take off runs. If the CHT goes above 350*F or the oil temp goes above 180*F at any point during the 10 minute max. duration ground run, or at the expiration of the ten minute time limit, that run should be terminated. Then, park the aircraft faced into the wind and allow the engine to cool, until you can place your hand on the cylinder heads and barrels for 5 seconds without hurting or burning you hand and the cylinders feel relatively cool to the touch. After the engine has cooled, continue with the last run where you left off. Obviously, from what we have learned about temperature, running the engine more conservatively will not cause any problems and may even help the break in process but operating within these restrictions, on the ground, should prevent any glazing issues. These limitations apply to an engine that has had a test cell run before any ground runs are attempted. If your engine hasn't had any test cell time, then I can supply you with a ground run schedule, to replace the test cell run, which can be performed on the aircraft. If you want or need that information, just email me privately and I would be happy to send it along.
When it comes time to fly the aircraft, once again we want to observe the ground run rules, for taxi and warm up. Once we are ready to fly, we want to use full power for take off and initial climb and then we want to reduce power to climb power(normally around 85%) until we reach a safe altitude above the airport. Keep the climbs, as flat as possible, to maintain as much cooling as possible. Remember that heat is our major enemy and we can control that with climb speed. After establishing an appropriate altitude, reduce power to 65% to 75% ( preferably 75 % if speed restrictions will allow it). If we see temps, exceeding 15% of our ground run limitations, in initial flights, we should reduce power to control those temps and land the aircraft. Then, double check all cooling associated equipment, repair as necessary if you find a defect, let the engine cool off and fly it again, taking up from where you left off, observing the same restrictions. The first flight shouldn't be any longer than 10 or 15 minutes maximum, even with good cooling that would allow a longer flight. The first flight is a "test flight" and after landing you should do a through visual inspection of the engine and its installation, for leaks and any other operational issues like interference fits that showed up under power, chafing of lines etc. After the first flight issues are checked, we are ready for further flights under the same ground run and flight restriction's we have been observing. The key issue once again is heat. If we control the heat by power setting, airspeed, step climbing or any other means at our disposal we will not glaze the cylinders and we will successfully break the engine in. If we operate the engine at too low of a power setting, to seat the rings, we will not harm the engine or the eventual break in process, unless we develop enough heat to glaze the cylinders. In another words, operation at a low power setting, isn't a deterrent for break in unless we have the heat.
The rest of this article is in part II
 
Last edited:
Break in info part II

The amount of physical time we spend, at too low of a power setting to accomplish ring seating, does increase the available amount of engine operational time, that we could glaze the cylinders from excessive heat but it will not directly cause that heat unless there is something wrong or we screw up. The low power operation, without the heat, doesn't hurt anything, it is just wasted operational time, as far as, break in goes. To put it simply, if we ran the engine for 10 hours at 50% power it is unlikely that we would break the rings in, due to the low BMEP, but it is also unlikely that we would glaze the cylinders if we didn't get the engine and cylinders too hot. If we then operated the engine at 75% power for ten hours we would have the same chance of breaking the engine in successfully as we had before the ten hours at 50% power. But we have to understand, that ten hours at 50 % power is ten hours of, extra, wasted from a break in stand point, operational time where we could do something to cause the excessive heat, that causes glazing, if we weren't paying attention. That is the only risk of low power operation as far as break in is concerned.
If you look at this scenario, you can understand how anyone is able to run an engine, in a test cell for extended periods, when we have new rings. It is because, in a test cell, we can control the cooling and if for some reason we can't, we terminate the runs in the cell to prevent glazing just like you should in the aircraft. If you control the cooling by limiting run duration or max. temps. encountered, with the engine installed on the aircraft, you are able to run the same as if the engine were in a test cell. Thus, extra cell time, on a new engine, isn't really necessary to prevent glazing or worrisome.
 
Build a shroud

It is relatively easy to build a cooling shroud to run your engine on the ground without issue.

I built one and ran my engine for the first 2 hours with it. Plenty of cooling. I did not want to test an engine and an airframe at the same time. I also live on a runway that has very few options (none of them good) if you loose an engine soon after take-off.

Had to enlarge the hole and add a fence to the bottom of my cooler tap to get the correct amount of air to the oil cooler. I have an unusual cooler location so would not be needed or an issue for most.

Here is the thread with info.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=86912&highlight=shroud
 
Last edited:
My state requires an hour on the engine - on the airframe!

My engine was run for an hour at the Factory. They manage cooling. It's OK to ground run your engine if you are instrumented and know what temperatures you are running.

I did multiple runs, some as long as 15 minutes. Somewhere there is (was) a nice article that Mahlon Russel did about ground runs and temperatures. If I can put my hands on it, I will post a link. Basically, if you manage cooling, you don't impact break in.

I followed these instructions and all is well. I just finished Phase I yesterday and my engine burns < 1 quart in 10 hours. It broke in nicely around 5 hours in the air.


Since when does a state get to dictate this, and who is there to enforce it?
 
Mahlon, it's really good to see you're still here on the forums and contributing your considerable expertise. Thanks for sticking around after your shop closed.
 
Does it matter if the engine has been run at the build facility?

Would it change your break-in procedures if the engine had been test run with a club prop for about 15 minutes at the shop where it was built? They told me they ran my engine for a few minutes to check for leaks, etc.

They did tell me they didn't test it all the way up to full power. Only that they ran it enough to see that it wasn't leaking and made about 75% power.
 
And to add to the line of questioning, my engine had an hour in the test cell and was run to full power for at least a few minutes (I'm at work and don't have the data with me). Should I treat it more like a routine return from maintenance for a used engine vs a new engine break-in?
 
If Mahlon told me to stand on my head and whistle Dixie while breaking in my engine I'd do it without question!

deek
 
Our factory engine was ran 30 minutes twice at the factory, so we ran it 90 seconds, taxied quickly to the runway, and flew it at 90% power for 90 minutes. It still took 60 hours to break in the steel cylinders.
 
They told me they ran my engine for a few minutes to check for leaks, etc.

They did tell me they didn't test it all the way up to full power. Only that they ran it enough to see that it wasn't leaking and made about 75% power.
Seems they didn't follow the directions. Hopefully they didn't mess up the jugs.
We'd call Lycoming and ask them how to best to recover from the improper break-in activity.

It still took 60 hours to break in the steel cylinders.
Steel meaning not chrome? Seems like a long time. Sure it wasn't done well before that?
 
Nitrided steel barrels. From an oil consumption standpoint, it didnt use but a quart of oil in the first 5 hours, and it has averaged 8-10 hours per quart since then. But the CHT's remained elevated and the TAS was down ten knots for the first 60 hours. For the first 20 hours or so, couldnt close the cowl flaps. After 40 hours or so, we could close the cowl flaps but CHT's were still elevated, still 5 knots slow. After 60 hours the CHT's are stabilized to the normal baseline, which is what we also see at 200 hours SMOH now.
 
Would it change your break-in procedures if the engine had been test run with a club prop for about 15 minutes at the shop where it was built? They told me they ran my engine for a few minutes to check for leaks, etc....

I didn't read mahlon's post close enough. The answer to my question was in there. It says " These limitations apply to an engine that has had a test cell run before any ground runs are attempted. If your engine hasn't had any test cell time, then I can supply you with a ground run schedule, to replace the test cell run, which can be performed on the aircraft."
 
Since when does a state get to dictate this, and who is there to enforce it?

It's not the state, it's the MIDO. And, just like FSDOs, they seem to be their own little fiefdoms.

Enforcement is via the DAR; s/he needs to see a logbook entry attesting to the 1hr run time before issuing the pink slip.
 
I recall we had this conversation last year when I was trying to pull together the paperwork for the DAR inspection.

The dirty little secret here is that off-the-record, the DAR just wants to see a collection of numbers that add up to 1 hour. He doesn't care if you fake it or not, just as long as it adds up to 1.

I ended up getting the test cell data from Mahlon, which was very valuable. As it turns out, my engine was broken in by the time I received it or VERY early on in Phase I when I didn't notice it. I never had any oil issue or a sudden lowering of CHTs etc indicative of the "aha!" moment. (it could've happened on the first flight for all I know since I had an experienced test pilot do the first flight)

But I also ran the engine for at least a cumulative hour before the first flight. And for my ground runs, I paid religious attention to Mahlon's advice (You can NEVER go wrong paying attention to Mahlon's advice. Never.) But the late stages of the ground run regimen told me that something wasn't quite right even though none of the engine numbers off the monitor could prove it. and inspection didn't reveal anything.Even on first flight (done by a test pilot), the response was that the engine was fine. And it wasn't until the second flight that the problem presented itself in earnest.

I was ready for it, mostly because the first engine start several months earlier had imprinted itself in my brain, and I knew that she wasn't quite the same for the ground runs.

So put me in the camp that finds value in ground runs. The earlier you can "bond" with the sound and feel of the engine, the better.

And every time I listen to that engine start and purr, I feel sad that Mattituck closed up shop.
 
Last edited:
I called Lycoming tech support on this very issue for my new YIO-360-m1b. The tech said it had been fun for 10 hours and to do the procedure in the manual, which I did. He felt that the tests were important for reliability.

I ran mineral oil for the first 25 hours, staying above 65% when possible. Now I have 150+ hours and have never burned more than one quart in 20 hours.

-John

I was looking at the attached Lycoming service manual for break-in after overhaul. It says to ground run the engine at 1500 RPM for 15 minutes.

I have read all the archives about keeping ground runs to a minimum, so I am confused. I thought the general consensus was to keep ground runs to a minimum.

Do people really ground run their engines for 15 minutes during break-in?

http://www.lycoming.com/support/publications/service-instructions/pdfs/SI1427C.pdf
 
Ground Running and Cooling

I built a large cooling scoop about one foot high and as wide as the whole engine and then secured it to the motor and I had no problem cooling the engine on the ground. I used cylinder head temp. gauges and also a oil temp. gauge. I ran it one time for an hour, outside air temp. 70 degrees.
I did wide open run ups using a turbo charger and still did not over heat my engine. A large cooling scoop will work wonders and there is nothing like ground testing an engine to full power on the ground.
Note that the cooling scoop must be rigid enough not to deform under heavy prop blast.
 
Back
Top