IO540

Found a IO540 C4B5 in WA. It has all accessories with logs 1760hrs SMOH by Van Deusen. Last log entry was 2005 salvaged from a Aztec. He said he had intentions of flying it out to his place to part out but had some fuel leaks so they parted out in place. Being sold by airplane salvage company. I'm not even close to needing an engine, starting on fuselage now. My A&P AI is on holiday for next two weeks so I thought I would ask you guys opinions. They are asking $10k for it. Should I grab it now for overhaul or wait till later. Parallel valve io540's seem to be getting harder to find unless you want to spend 50 k on a new one. My plan so far has been to find a mid- high time engine for overhaul.

First step: See if you can find the logs for the engine.

You're looking for engine total time, how far the crank has been ground, if the crankcase has been reworked (and how many times - there will be stamps on the crankcase flanges indicating this), and if the engine has any odd events in its history.

Second step - look at the market. I was in a similar situation a while back and the best deals I found were:

1) A running O-540, 1700 hours since OH for <$10,000, with missing logs from >10 years ago.

2) A "parts" 0-540 with missing logs. The crank, crankcase, cam, and all steel parts (gears, con rods, etc.) had been shipped to the various rebuild shops and reworked and recertified with paperwork. Accessories were included. The price was $11k. This engine is/was in Northern VA and might still be available. If anyone is interested, let me know by PM and I'll try and find the info.

3) A fresh rebuild O-540 for ~$20k. Needed upgrading to fuel injection, and had been sitting for a decade. Needed (IMO) to be pulled apart and inspected, then reassembled.

I would take any of those deals over the one you listed unless you know the engine you found is a first run core.

Being so far away you should consider hiring an independent AP/AI knowledgeable in Lycoming's to inspect this for you and give you a fair report on what is found. One thing in particular is the crankshaft AD to look at. $10,000 would be a good buy if everything is in order. For less than $7000, you could put brand new Superior Millennium power assemblies (Cylinders, pistons, & rings) on it. A few thousand dollars more for machine work, inspections, bearings, maybe a new cam, and your way ahead of the game. There are people on this forum that have more money than they know what to do with and would NEVER give the thought of putting in a salvage engine. They will tell you every reason not to! There is nothing wrong with building on a budget and saving whenever possible. Just be fully aware of what you are getting and making a thorough assessment before you buy.

9GT said:

Being so far away you should consider hiring an independent AP/AI knowledgeable in Lycoming's to inspect this for you and give you a fair report on what is found. One thing in particular is the crankshaft AD to look at. $10,000 would be a good buy if everything is in order. For less than $7000, you could put brand new Superior Millennium power assemblies (Cylinders, pistons, & rings) on it. A few thousand dollars more for machine work, inspections, bearings, maybe a new cam, and your way ahead of the game. There are people on this forum that have more money than they know what to do with and would NEVER give the thought of putting in a salvage engine. They will tell you every reason not to! There is nothing wrong with building on a budget and saving whenever possible. Just be fully aware of what you are getting and making a thorough assessment before you buy.

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He'res another data point:

With a $10k core, new cylinders, machine work, new miscellaneous parts (bearings, oil pump, con-rod bolts, and rebuilt or new accessories, etc), you'll have mid-high $20's in an engine if the crank, crankcase, and gears are useable.

Kyle Boatright said:

He'res another data point:

With a $10k core, new cylinders, machine work, new miscellaneous parts (bearings, oil pump, con-rod bolts, and rebuilt or new accessories, etc), you'll have mid-high $20's in an engine if the crank, crankcase, and gears are useable.

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Maybe and maybe not. It depends on the core and that is why I recommend a thorough inspection/evaluation prior to purchase consideration. I was just a bit under $20K total on my engine. I did the disassembly and reassembly myself also. The only thing found on my engine that needed work on was the crank flange needed straightening. (Prop Strike IO-540V4A5) The case, cam, rods, were all good. I eventually purchased new mags, power assemblies, starter and alternator, but that was what brought me up to the $20K. I spent more money on shipping the case, crank, cam & rods than the bills for services came to. I used the two companies most commonly used,,,not some backyard machine chop. New rods bolts and bearings were high expenses. I picked up my new accessories new in box but "used" and saved considerably. These are my real numbers, my numbers not estimates. Even at mid to high $20's for an overhauled engine, its a whole lot less than buying new. Its not an option for every builder. But for those of us with limited funds, its a great option that can help keep costs down.

Thanks for all the input. I sent an email to a FBO out there with mechanic services around Spokane to maybe take a look at it. Anyone here know any AP AI in Spokane area that may take a look next week?

C4B5 core for the -10

We bought a core IO540C4B5 for the RV-10 --- took it to a reputable engine shop and told them to make a "like-new" engine ---- about 32K when delivered. New cylinders, new cam, new mags,etc. -- glad we did it, but it can be done for less cost.

Ron

RONSIM said:

We bought a core IO540C4B5 for the RV-10 --- took it to a reputable engine shop and told them to make a "like-new" engine ---- about 32K when delivered. New cylinders, new cam, new mags,etc. -- glad we did it, but it can be done for less cost.

Ron

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Ron,
Do you remember what that the core cost you? Was it 32k total with core cost? Just trying to get price points.

Joe

That was total price

The core, at that time (circa 2007) was about 5000, bought from an airboat guy who got it from a parted-out Aztec.

Zephyr engines (Zephyrhills, FL) did the rebuild ---- our mistake was to spec ECI cylinders ---- AD came out before we had even flown the airplane.

Ron

Everything depends on condition, which unless you're able to tear it down, must be determined via the logs.

One piece of advice I read a few years ago was to walk away from anything that was a box of parts. It usually means someone has torn down an engine and harvested the good, serviceable parts and left boxes of unknowns.

I bought a core from Wentworth, an IO-540-C4B5 from a salvage Aztec for $10K. All signs pointed toward it being a good gamble: Mfr'd 1976, first run with 2400 hrs TTSN, full logs. Wentworth can be a little steep on cores but they guarantee the bottom end for serviceability. This was clutch in my case because the crankshaft on this engine showed a crack during magnaflux test, even though it showed zero runout.

Wentworth stood by it and sent me another crank, which is currently being inspected.

Always plan to replace the top end, save for rocker arms, which are reusable.

The most valuable tool you can get for engine shopping is knowledge-- know the difference between narrow and wide deck, how to tell them apart at a glance, study the model distinction list, know what is desirable and what is not. Study the illustrated parts manual and Lycoming overhaul manual. Much of this I have learned in the heat of it but have luckily had some good tutelage.

A complete engine with logs is kinda like a See's chocolate: It could be really great on the inside or something you just chuck in the garbage. It's a roll of the dice even on the "good" ones.

Logs

I looked through some of logs. Looks like almost 5000 ttsn with an overhaul from van deusen at 3700 hrs sn. I would imagine crank has been ground at least once with at least 2 overhauls. So unless they can guarantee a serviceable crank and case I'm walking away from this one. Engine is complete as removed with all accessories.

If your in no rush keep looking on Barnstormers and eBay. I took about 9 months to find a sound engine. Walking away from a few that initially looked good. In the end I got an Aztec engine - wide deck C4B5 that had 200 hours since 1st overhaul and had a low speed overrun. New cylinders at overhaul. One prop blade slightly bent. The Salvage company guaranteed the bottom end would be serviceable or they would supply another crank or case. $15k.
The engine was stripped new bottom end bearings, new cam fitted plus new exhaust valves so it could be zero houred again. So for less than $25k I have a 2000 hour engine.
Things I learnt are that the Aztec engine is a excellent donor. Just the mounting ears that need to be replaced. Check the crankshaft and cylinders aren't effected by any AD's.

kiwipete said:

The engine was stripped new bottom end bearings, new cam fitted plus new exhaust valves so it could be zero houred again. So for less than $25k I have a 2000 hour engine.

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I'm not familiar with UK rules, but in the U.S. only the engine manufacturer can "Zero Time" an engine.

"zero time"

Be VERY careful about buying a factory "Zero Time" engine. Do your research and you will find that you may not me getting what you think with a "zero time" engine.

I just had a friend replace an engine in a T210 and we went through this with Continental. Apparently, as long as the parts they are using are within "factory" specs, they can and do use used parts in a "zero time" engine...that is why it is cheaper than "new".

Buyer Beware.

OR, the perfect engine can come to you......Because I was calling salvage yards, one guy kept my number. A customer came to him trying to sell a K model (300HP), it was a little higher that what they pay for cores. In-turn, the salvage yard called me. I now have a 1st run (never been split) 2000HR gem. The kicker is I paid less than 7k.

In the -10?

The K is an angle valve, correct? Will that even work in the -10?

Abraham said:

OR, the perfect engine can come to you......Because I was calling salvage yards, one guy kept my number. A customer came to him trying to sell a K model (300HP), it was a little higher that what they pay for cores. In-turn, the salvage yard called me. I now have a 1st run (never been split) 2000HR gem. The kicker is I paid less than 7k.

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rocketman1988 said:

The K is an angle valve, correct? Will that even work in the -10?

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It's not that it won't work but an angle valve IO-540 is a lot heavier and a bit wider than a parallel valve engine. That translates into a lot of extra work in order to get it to fit and weight and balance issues to overcome. My advice is steer clear and stick to a parallel valve engine even if you have to pay a little more.

I ended up making a deal for the 540. They will warranty the crank and crankcase to be serviceable to factory spec tolerances. Had to sweeten the pot alittle for the warranty but he included freight in the deal. It came from a running aircraft that the owner lost his medical years ago, but kept the engines running every couple months. They, were going to fly the plane to the salvage yard but the fuel tanks were leaking so they parted in place. I've been searching for awhile and the parallel valve 540 is getting scarce to find without prop strikes. Wentworth has several but all prop strikes and they still want 6k. I don't need the engine yet but it seemed to be a good deal and they are getting harder to find with the boost of experimental ac needing them.

rocketman1988 said:

The K is an angle valve, correct? Will that even work in the -10?

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Yes correct. I don't have an RV so it is perfect for me..