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Todd's Canopies

J

JohnF

Well Known Member
I have had some communication with Todd's Canopies regarding a plexiglass rear window for the RV-12....he requested, but I cannot supply, some detailed photos so he can assess if he wants to see if he could provide an alternative to the Lexan one in the kit.

If you have such photos and want to pursue this send them to www.toddscanopies.com and who know what might/might not happen.
 
My son works for a large plastic supply company in Atlanta. I gave him the specs, on Van's s rear window material and they told me it is a good grade of polycarbonate, with a scratch resistant coating. The problem is when fuel gets on the exposed edges (screw holes). They said the only solution is a military grade material which is very expensive and not available in small quantities. My cost for a 4' x4' sheet is well under $100. If I every need to replace it I will use my old one as a pattern and cut out a new one using my band saw with a small tooth blade.

Ron Russ
RV9A
RV12
 
Coat the edges?

This has been discussed before, but no definitive answer has come forth. Can any of you chemist types recommend something to seal the edges that will not itself attack the polcarbonate? I haven't installed the rear window yet and it sure would be nice to seal those edges before it goes in.
 
ProSeal doesn't harm plexi. My Rocket canopy is completely set in a ring of ProSeal and has been for 7+ years. Works great.

Vince
 
Canopy protector

Our -12 is flying and we fill the tank from a barrel with a hand pump and hose. So far so good. Very little chance of a problem this way because nothing splashes or pours.

I am now wondering about the occasional time when we need to fuel up from a 5 gallon container. This could happen away from the field. Has anyone thought of a way of protecting the canopy from accidental spills or splashes.

What are you using?

Rich
 
Rich,

Since I ruined mine with a "splash" I went out and bought one those things mechanics lay on the fender when they work inside the hood. Its heavy enough that it will stay in place and a least will direct a splash onto the paint.
 
Fuel and Aft Window

Pending replacement of the aft window with plexiglass I purchased a fueling system called Flo-Fast, which has (either 5, 7.5 gallon or larger) plastic bottles or jugs and a hand-cranked rotary pump which screws onto the top of the jug and that empties 5 gallons in one minute. It has a hose that you can push down into the RV-12's fuel input.

I also purchased 2 linear feet of 1/16th inch thick rubber sheet that's 36-inches wide to lay over the adjacent window while refueling. Aircraft Spruce has the rubber sheet for $7.95/ft. Their part #05-01000, page 127 or current catalog.

I hope this belt and suspenders approach will keep me out of trouble, at least for a while.
 
I bet Sikaflex would also worik

to protect the exposed edges.
Of course, it is too expensive to buy just for such a small job, so maybe the dreaded ProSeal is better. If you know someone who is gluing in a canopy with Sikaflex, there will likely be enough left over that you could coat the edges of your polycarbonate rear window with it.
 
Proseal is the easiest and cheapest because I have some. Before I apply it to my window I sure would like confirmation from someone who has actually used it on polycarbonate without any bad effects. Anybody out there?
 
Sounds like a great idea if the proseal is compatible with the lexan. In addition to sealing out the fuel, it would also keep out rain water.

If one was to use the proseal on the edge, it would be imperative to mask off the remaining glass to keep it clean. Mounting the rear window is not an easy task. It's like trying to put a ten foot boa constrictor in a burlap bag. Takes two people at least.

Art Pennanen
 
RUINED REAR WINDOW

Yesterday, despite all my care and planning not to spill fuel on the rear window, while fueling, the filler tube "burped" and gas splashed onto the polycarbonate. It apparently wicked quickly between the aluminum skin and the plastic and even though I had a rag handy and wiped up what I could get off the exposed surface, what ran under the alum. skin caused multiple cracks (all the way through the wall thickness of the polycarbonate window) destroying it. It did this in about 30 seconds.
Are these alternate (plexiglass?) windows that some people are making resistant to gasoline and are any of you who have installed them, happy with the results?
I was so upset, I contemplated replacement with an aluminum skin instead of more plastic. Splashed gas will IMHO happen again.
Larry
 
Last edited:
JohnF said:
I have had some communication with Todd's Canopies regarding a plexiglass rear window for the RV-12....he requested, but I cannot supply, some detailed photos so he can assess if he wants to see if he could provide an alternative to the Lexan one in the kit.

If you have such photos and want to pursue this send them to www.toddscanopies.com and who know what might/might not happen.
Click to expand...

Aren't these things cracked or miscut with amazing regularity?

Could he not just be sent a canopy?
 
LIMA HOTEL said:
Yesterday, despite all my care and planning not to spill fuel on the rear window, while fueling, the filler tube "burped" and gas splashed onto the polycarbonate. It apparently wicked quickly between the aluminum skin and the plastic and even though I had a rag handy and wiped up what I could get off the exposed surface, what ran under the alum. skin caused multiple cracks (all the way through the wall thickness of the polycarbonate window) destroying it. It did this in about 30 seconds.
Are these alternate (plexiglass?) windows that some people are making resistant to gasoline and are any of you who have installed them, happy with the results?
I was so upset, I contemplated replacement with an aluminum skin instead of more plastic. Splashed gas will IMHO happen again.
Larry
Click to expand...

Larry, Very sorry to hear about your rear window. Would a small bead of clear silicone in this area keep the fuel from wicking down? I've been thinking of doing this and your situation is motivating me to do something.

This might be a good building tip. Seal the rear windo with silicone!
 
Larry,

Prevoius threads on this subject have said silicone also attacks Lexan. Proseal apparently would work, but that raises the question of how one would apply it to the edges and the screw holes without making a complete mess.

John
 
Rich, I picked up a 2' wide roll of ribbed black vynil at Home Depot for about 5 bucks. Cut a pc about 3' long and lay it on the window when fueling. If any splashes the ribs direct it down onto the fuse well below window.
Dick Seiders
 
BigJohn said:
Larry,

Prevoius threads on this subject have said silicone also attacks Lexan. Proseal apparently would work, but that raises the question of how one would apply it to the edges and the screw holes without making a complete mess.

John
Click to expand...

Whoa, I must have missed that! Thanks for responding!

Alan Z, Grand Island, NE came up with a light, rubber, welcome mat that covers the fuel tank hole that should protect the rear window in the event of a spill.
 
madhun said:
Aren't these things cracked or miscut with amazing regularity?

Could he not just be sent a canopy?
Click to expand...

As a registered victim of rear window destruction, I can tell you that Lexan is used because it bends. For Todd to do a plexi replacement he would have to make a mold of the shape after its bent. Van's did look into it and decided the expense of such a mold is not justified. Fortunately, replacement is easy, forking over the $200 (includes shipping) hurts. I have become a very careful fueler to say the least. To me, the more important issue behind fueling is to avoid the use of plastic gas containers because plastic generates static electricity...and yes people have been injured using them. Metal ones are more expensive but certainly safer.
 
jersey said:
John,

There is already a source for an alternative plexi-glass rear window.

Click on: http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4876/aftglass.jpg

Email: [email protected] if you are interested. He has developed a thermo mold etc. and currently has several orders.

The rear window is available in dark, medium or no tint.



Gary Eldridge
Click to expand...

This looks like the way to go, and then install it with proseal, gives you the belts and braces option! What is the cost for these windows? At about $200 including freight to replace them with genuine, it would only need a couple of window changes to justify it! .....may be better to spend the extra initially, and save all the heartache!
 
I was not fueling with plastic cans. While still building the plane, I built a tank on a trailer with an electric pump, filters and regulation hose and nozzle, like Larry Geiger has. Only not as large a tank as I don't want the gas to get stale.
I fueled successfully about five times before yesterday. The pump is too high in the GPM department and yesterday I apparently squeezed the nozzle open too much.

I still want to know if anyone has used anything besides the Van's polycarbonate window? And will it resist gas?

Larry
 
Plexiglass rear window for RV-12

Carl, in Wharton, TX, has built a mold and made a plexi rear window for his friend who had a rear window disaster and he said he'd make one for me if need be. You can see how much, if any, he might be willing to expand his plexi offering. His email is [email protected]
 
LIMA HOTEL said:
I was not fueling with plastic cans. While still building the plane, I built a tank on a trailer with an electric pump, filters and regulation hose and nozzle, like Larry Geiger has. Only not as large a tank as I don't want the gas to get stale.
I fueled successfully about five times before yesterday. The pump is too high in the GPM department and yesterday I apparently squeezed the nozzle open too much.

I still want to know if anyone has used anything besides the Van's polycarbonate window? And will it resist gas?

Larry
Click to expand...

Larry,

Plexiglass is not affected by combustibles/gasoline. I don't know of anyone that has tried it. Try the guy John just mentioned. Good for you with the tank etc. Tractor Supply sells an 8 GPM hose that you could switch out to...that is pretty much an unburpable speed.
 
Marcus

VHRV12 said:
This looks like the way to go, and then install it with proseal, gives you the belts and braces option! What is the cost for these windows? At about $200 including freight to replace them with genuine, it would only need a couple of window changes to justify it! .....may be better to spend the extra initially, and save all the heartache!
Click to expand...

I assume if you replaced it during the initial build prior to inspection, it would be regarded as an unacceptable E-LSA modification? However, with our hot Australian summers, I like the idea of a tinted and fuel resistant rear window.

rgmwa
120346
 
rgmwa said:
I assume if you replaced it during the initial build prior to inspection, it would be regarded as an unacceptable E-LSA modification? However, with our hot Australian summers, I like the idea of a tinted and fuel resistant rear window.

rgmwa
120346
Click to expand...

Agreed Robert, but if you use the windows in the kit, then modify it after the inspection, at your convienience, (much like the sight glass in the fuel tank) that should fix the problem for life!
 
Just thought that a bit of experience with my Cessna 180 might be worth relating. Probably you all know what a Cessna 180 looks like... basically an older fastback Cessna without the rear window. The fuel tanks are on top of the wings just outboard of the cabin.

Anyway, I've been flying it since '86. And here's the point: at one time or another, gasoline has gotten on every window on the plane. You won't be able to avoid it. If it doesn't happen soon, it'll happen later. Fuel hoses burp and dribble, the wind blows, you can figure out other things. But count on it, fuel will get to your windows.

Got to say that thanks to the acrylic (plexiglas) windows and windshield, there's never been any damage.
.
 
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