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Concerns about Avery Hand Squeezer

WingedFrog

Well Known Member
Hi fellow builders,
I just finished the 10 steps of the first page of section 6 Vertical Stabilizer.
The first difficulties I faced was for using the Avery hand squeezer that came with the Avery RV-12 tool kit: sparse documentation, clearly not intended at the new bee I am. With the help of a fellow EAA member (thank you Dwight Frye!) I was able to squeeze my first 10 rivets of the lower and upper hinge assemblies. It took me a while to figure out that I had to do the squeezing in two pass because I am not Schwarzeneger when it comes to muscles. I also found out that to determine if a rivet head is properly set I needed a rivet gauge... which is not included in the tool set! I managed to make my own gauge following instructions from a previous posting on this forum (thank you very much!). I think that I did a decent job with my first ten err twenty squeezes but ...
I don't dare to check the coming instruction pages to figure out how many more solid rivets I will have to squeeze. My question to those who have been trough the empennage: is it reasonable for a guy in his sixties to complete all the solid rivets with this tool? If not I will feel cheated by Avery, unless they accept to take the squeezer back. I read all what's available on the subject and knows the alternative (Cleaveland or pneumatic) what I want to hear is from folks who did it with the Avery tool... all the way... if these folks exist... I need hope!
:eek:
 
Theres no way in HECK you could do the whole plane with just the hand squeezer. There are a number of bucked rivets (all the #4s) that are nearly impossible with the hand squeezer, and even a few that require a bucking bar/ air hammer.

Definitely pick up an air squeezer, and borrow/buy an air hammer and bucking bar for a few parts on the fuselage.
 
Hi fellow builders,
I just finished the 10 steps of the first page of section 6 Vertical Stabilizer.
The first difficulties I faced was for using the Avery hand squeezer that came with the Avery RV-12 tool kit: sparse documentation, clearly not intended at the new bee I am. With the help of a fellow EAA member (thank you Dwight Frye!) I was able to squeeze my first 10 rivets of the lower and upper hinge assemblies. It took me a while to figure out that I had to do the squeezing in two pass because I am not Schwarzeneger when it comes to muscles. I also found out that to determine if a rivet head is properly set I needed a rivet gauge... which is not included in the tool set! I managed to make my own gauge following instructions from a previous posting on this forum (thank you very much!). I think that I did a decent job with my first ten err twenty squeezes but ...
I don't dare to check the coming instruction pages to figure out how many more solid rivets I will have to squeeze. My question to those who have been trough the empennage: is it reasonable for a guy in his sixties to complete all the solid rivets with this tool? If not I will feel cheated by Avery, unless they accept to take the squeezer back. I read all what's available on the subject and knows the alternative (Cleaveland or pneumatic) what I want to hear is from folks who did it with the Avery tool... all the way... if these folks exist... I need hope!
:eek:
I'm 58 and have used the hand squeezed rivet tool exclusively. I've also found Avery tool to be very supportive and exemplary in terms of customer support. IMHO it is difficult for any company to meet everyone's need with a "one-size" fits all, but Avery comes as close as can reasonably be expected. My bet is that they'll work with as best they can to support your success. Slane
 
Get yourself a pneumatic rivet puller and a pneumatic rivet squeezer. You'll be glad you did.
 
I bought my Avery Hand squeezer 15 years ago, and it still worked great today, at my 59 years of age. I'm doing a few cowl modifications. For the areas of building, that you'll use this tool, it does a great looking job.

edit: And as mentioned get the pneumatic rivet squeezer too. I sold mine when the plane was completed.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
Skinny old man

I am a skinny old man and got by without a pneumatic rivet squeezer by using the Cleaveland tool. I think that there was only one rivet on the whole plane where the squeezer would not fit and I used a hammer and a punch and a bucking bar. You could buy a pneumatic squeezer and then sell it when the plane is completed. But nobody ever sells their tools do they? LOL
Joe
 
Tough to Squeeze!

These rivets are definately not like "Charmin". I have squeezed several and got the bulkhead for the tailcone and started those and cried help. I had a friend(fellow builder) graciously loan me his pneumatic riveter he got from Isham and WOW what a difference. I started having more fun instantly. You can do it without but why? Either buy or borrow one. Then you can sell it for almost what you payed for it(at least little loss) when the kit is finished. Pneumatic rivet puller is cheap. I got mine from Harbor Freight on sale for $29.00 and it works great. Have fun with the build. Keith Lee:)
 
I built the whole kit with the Avery squeezer. The 3's were no problem at all, and the 4's require two passes, with the spacing readjusted in between to keep the tool in the range of the maximum mechanical advantage, that is with the handles nearly closed. BTW, age is not a factor. Note my new N number. The two digits are the year I was born.
 
I built the whole kit with the Avery squeezer. The 3's were no problem at all, and the 4's require two passes, with the spacing readjusted in between to keep the tool in the range of the maximum mechanical advantage, that is with the handles nearly closed. BTW, age is not a factor. Note my new N number. The two digits are the year I was born.

All right BigJohn you gave me heart at least to try and proceed with the manual squeezer... plus an idea for my N number, that would be N41JP as JP are my initials as well. But I will keep the pneumatic squeezer in mind just in case my enthusiasm wears out... always good to have options. Thanks everybody else for your help.
 
Avery Hand Squeezer

I started my project using the Avery Hand Squeezer. I soon discovered the difficulty I had make consistantly acceptable rivets. After some research I discovered the Cleaveland "Main Squeeze". This allows you to squeeze rivets without smileys, offsets, slanted or damaged heads. On a #4 rivet you have to maintain considerable pressure on the handles while keeping the properly oriented, even with two squeezes. The Cleaveland, with its cam system, gives you a greater mechanical advantage at the handles and lets you concentrate on how the rivet is squeezing.

Now I had two squeezers, check that, three squeezers. I had a brand new squeezer from a previous project. It had a 1-1/2" fixed yoke. Now how could I use it? One day while installing some nutplates I discovered the 3" yoke would not fit, but the 1-1/2" yoke worked great. And this squeezer will set #3rivets easily. In some cases I was able to use solid rivets in lieu of the pull rivets the plans show. (This was with Van's Support Blessing). Now that squeezer is dedicated to set most nutplates.

The Avery squeezer can also be used to set #3 rivets, but it's size and weight are greater than the fixed yoke. I set it up to do my dimpling and #3 rivets greater than 1-1/2" from the edge.

Pneumatic riveters are great, but the cost is considerable. The're bulky and heavy. When you pull the trigger, you will not have an opportunity to make adjustments while it squeezes.

The Avery and Cleaveland squeezers have standard interchangeable yokes, so you could buy a 1-1/2" yoke to use on either squeezer. I recommend it.

Art Pennanen
 
I started my project using the Avery Hand Squeezer. I soon discovered the difficulty I had make consistantly acceptable rivets.

This is just something I have to disagree with. I know that builders have preferences between Cleveland and Avery.............yet my airplane has some of the best rivets seen by man/women, that are all Avery installed. There has often been comments about how good the rivets look.

I'm not saying that every rivet is excellent on my airplane. Because they're not. Yet, the Avery tool produced an exceptional job. And that's what counts.

L.Adamson -- RV6A
 
Theres no way in HECK you could do the whole plane with just the hand squeezer. There are a number of bucked rivets (all the #4s) that are nearly impossible with the hand squeezer, and even a few that require a bucking bar/ air hammer.

Definitely pick up an air squeezer, and borrow/buy an air hammer and bucking bar for a few parts on the fuselage.

I strongly disagree.
It may be possible that particular builders are unable to do all of the rivets with a certain tool, but I guarantee that an RV-12 can be built with only a hand rivet squeezer if it has the specified 3" yolk and all of teh specified rivet sets are available.
 
Rivet squeezers come in many flavors. Some are distasteful to everyone (I wont mention the brand name...). Some are just distasteful to a few.
You need to find what works for you. Often times this needs to involve an experienced builder to show you some tricks and techniques to using the tool that you have. Often it is not the fault of the tool but the way you are using it.
I have used a lot of different squeezer tools over the years. I personally have mixed feelings about the Cleavland main squeeze. It's mechanical advantage is great for bigger rivets. It's disadvantage is that the improved mechanical advantage puts the handles at a much wider distance when starting the squeeze. This makes it pretty much impossible to get the squeeze process started one handed unless you adjust it for close handles and then you will need to do multiple squeezes on a rivet just like the other squeezers. My experience (most recently working with twelve teenagers) is that this makes it more difficult on small parts. On large heavy parts that will stay stationary on their own it works fine.
With that being said...anyone can make good rivets with any good quality rivet squeezer. It just requires learning to properly use the tool.
 
I strongly disagree.
It may be possible that particular builders are unable to do all of the rivets with a certain tool, but I guarantee that an RV-12 can be built with only a hand rivet squeezer if it has the specified 3" yolk and all of teh specified rivet sets are available.

This is what happens when I click on "Today's posts", and fail to see it's in the RV-12 column. So forget other rivet squeezers, besides a hand squeezer --- I guess. :)
 
Concerns about Avery Hand Squeezers

Don't get me wrong. I agree that you could build a complete -12 with the Avery Squeezer. I could also build a complete -12 with a Cleaveland Squeezer. Using various yokes and sets would make the job easier with either squeezer. I just happen to have three squeezers and utilize each for separate application. This saves time resetting the squeezer for a different task.

Art Pennanen
 
I strongly disagree.
It may be possible that particular builders are unable to do all of the rivets with a certain tool, but I guarantee that an RV-12 can be built with only a hand rivet squeezer if it has the specified 3" yolk and all of teh specified rivet sets are available.

Even with a 3" yoke, we were unable to get to a few of the 4-10s attaching the baggage floors to the center section. Those we had to do with an offset air hammer.

As far as using the hand tool, squeezing a large amount of rivets at once is a real pain. Even today, just doing about 40 nutplates was a giant pain in the butt, and only ~20 #4 rivets with the hand squeezer hurt my hands.
 
Even with a 3" yoke, we were unable to get to a few of the 4-10s attaching the baggage floors to the center section. Those we had to do with an offset air hammer.

As far as using the hand tool, squeezing a large amount of rivets at once is a real pain. Even today, just doing about 40 nutplates was a giant pain in the butt, and only ~20 #4 rivets with the hand squeezer hurt my hands.

The team members that did that work on the Teen Flight RV-12 did all of the baggage floor rivets with an Avery hand squeezer.
 
WingedFrog...Sorry I could not attend ....

...our last Chapter's Builders Meeting. I am currently just north of Oshkosh helping my father-in-outlaw pack up his house for his move to the Cary area. I ended up pullig a back muscel an d spent a day in the hospital emergency room up here, and am presently resting in a brother-in-law's house in Milwalkee.

I am hoping to start driving back to Cary on Thursday, should be home by Saturday. When I get back, if you like, I can spend some time with you on using the rivet squeezer, some tricks of the trade, etc. I have an extra set of the go-no go rivet gauges that I can lend you if you want to use them. I also have a video tape on using the aircraft building hand tools if you want to view it for future reference.

I see that Dwight was able to help you. Good guy. Good craftsmanship.
 
The team members that did that work on the Teen Flight RV-12 did all of the baggage floor rivets with an Avery hand squeezer.

I'm not a teen (add about 50 years), and I too did all the baggage floor rivets with my Avery. I have a pneumatic squeezer also, but it doesn't work well when you have to put the cupped die on the ram, like when doing these floors. The Avery did a nice job, like BigJohn said, taking two squeezes to keep the tool working where the leverage is maximum. I ended up with one smile on one of the far corner rivets that are a bit hard to get onto evenly.
[url=http://tonytessitore.smugmug.com/RV-12-Project-N577RV/RV-12-Fuselage/8010094_YTLQe#564868221_jGNVz-A-LB][/URL]
I painted these parts before assembly so had to protect the floors with cardboard when riveting.

Tony
 
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I removed the plastic caps on the handles and inserted 18" long 1/2" steel rods in the hollow handles, put 1/2" PVC over them and taped the PVC to the squeezer handles. My birth year is '30 and so far have had no problem.
 
For new builders...

If I had my time again, I would still go with the Avery toolkit but delete the squeezers and buy the Cleaveland ones - personal view based on a demo at Oshkosh this week...

By the way, the 3 inch head is not big enough to squeeze all rivets in the right instrument panel, assuming you install the map box. Vans plans direct you to install pulled 3/32 rivets which looks horrid. This has been noted elsewhere. You might wish to consider getting/borrowing a larger head for the few times it would be useful.

Cheers...Keith
 
By the way, the 3 inch head is not big enough to squeeze all rivets in the right instrument panel, assuming you install the map box. Vans plans direct you to install pulled 3/32 rivets which looks horrid.

Get creative...
Five minutes spent using some JB weld or other type of filler to fill the centers of the blind rivets, and you can't even tell them from the others after painting.
 
I actually like the Avery squeezer for its one-hand starting capability and using my whole body weight of 180 lbs. I just finished riveting the aft bulkhead in about 2 hours and I can still hold a coffee mug without my hands trembling.
So why am I posting this? Well, yesterday I had to dimple a few holes after a long period of riveting AD4 rivets and I noticed a pretty wide gap between the dies when they were supposed to sit snug.
I took the squeezer apart and found that the base of the pushrod that controls the movement of the lower die has developed a significant recess where the free handle engages it to apply the upward movement.
The recess is about a 16th to 3/32nd of an inch deep and the dimple dies did not work correctly on thin materials anymore. A workaround for me was to use a washer under the upper die to close that gap and ensure proper engagement again. That worked so far but it left a bad taste behind because it shows that the material of the stem has not the adequate hardness to withstand the forces necessary to squeeze 1/8 rivets.
I think I'll take some pictures these days and send them to Avery to see if they had some trouble with suppliers. I can't imagine that he wouldn't agree with me on this to be bad material. We'll see.
Oh, I should mention, that this particular squeezer hasn't done more work than necessary to almost get me through the tail kit. That is really not that many rivets at all.
 
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a new problem

As posted before I was quite OK with the squeezer considering its moderate price. On the weekend though I was running into a really annoying problem.
When working on 11-07 I had to squeeze AD3-9 rivets holding a threaded insert in an aluminum tube. First I tried the recently acquired pneumatic squeezer, only to find that it does not produce nearly enough force when the jaws are open that wide. So I pulled out the manual squeezer and was shocked to find that this one wouldn't open wide enough to even get the rivet in between the dies! One of the screws on the riveter also works as a backstop for the movable arm and I had to remove it to open the jaws wide enough. Squeezing without the screw on an AD3 rivet is no problem as the forces are low.
You could probably disassemble the riveter and file a recess into the movable arm to allow for a bit more travel (by hitting the backstop a bit later) but I found that the riveter moves a bit cranky at first when the jaws open that wide, so I didn't want to make this change permanent.
What concerns me is that I might have to do this a few times as there is a significant amount of AD3-9 rivets in the kit.
How did you guys squeeze these rivets? Or is it just mine that wouldn't open far enough?
 
In the Avery dimpling kit that comes with the RV-12 tool kit, I was able to find a 3/32 die that has a shape accommodating the AD3-9 manufactured head (I don't think the hole would be a problem but please correct me if I'm wrong). Combined with the thinest flat die which is 3.7 mm thick, there is enough clearance to put the AD3-9 in
 
So I pulled out the manual squeezer and was shocked to find that this one wouldn't open wide enough to even get the rivet in between the dies! ...What concerns me is that I might have to do this a few times as there is a significant amount of AD3-9 rivets in the kit.
How did you guys squeeze these rivets? Or is it just mine that wouldn't open far enough?

Are you sure you are rotaing the adjustable shaft of the sqeezer as low as it will go? With the handles held together I can spin the shaft until there is about 1/4 inch showing, then release the handles and the shaft disappears below the level of the yoke. I can fit a 4-9 and the width of my pinky in the open space between the dies. I have a standard model Avery squeezer that I bought 7 years ago with no defects. Works like a charm.
 
Are you sure you are rotaing the adjustable shaft of the sqeezer as low as it will go? With the handles held together I can spin the shaft until there is about 1/4 inch showing, then release the handles and the shaft disappears below the level of the yoke. I can fit a 4-9 and the width of my pinky in the open space between the dies. I have a standard model Avery squeezer that I bought 7 years ago with no defects. Works like a charm.

Yeah, I'm just coming back from the shop to try different things. The piston is as short as it allows me to set it and I can definitely not get a -9 rivet in there. If I use WingedFrog's suggestion I can though. It didn't occur to me yet but the 3/32 dimple dies fit the manufactured head of the AD3 rivet better than the standard die that I am supposed to use for it. The hole appears to be small enough to be ok, considered that an AD3 doesn't need a lot of force to set. I'll try that to squeeze one thse days using the dimple die and se how it looks like.
 
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