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Build or Buy?

AKHM462

I'm New Here
Hello,

I am interested in the opinion of other members regarding the following:

1. Is it better to purchase a completed RV and upgrade to what I want, or build and get exactly what I want? (Keep in mind that I would utilize a builder assist program should I choose to build).

2. If I were to build, is it better to purchase a partial build, or start from scratch?

Thank-you for your thoughts.

Joe
 
1 question

Do you want an airplane or do you want to build an airplane? If the answer is the former, buy an airplane. The only way you will be able to stay motivated to finish a project of this magnitude is if you enjoy the project itself. Plenty of people who wanted any airplane have started building one only to never finish it.
 
How old are you? Are you retired so you have time to do a lot of building? How good are you at making parts with precision? Do you like to fly or build? Waht is the real total price when it's all said and done versus buying one and flying it now while changing a few things to make it "mine"?

These are just some of the questions I asked myself when I was thinking about the same thing as you. some answers will make the build longer or shorter while others will be the deference between enjoying the building experience or getting tired of building while others are out there flying.
 
If getting a flyable airplane matters most, buy one, if you can find one.

If saving money matters most, build it, using slow-build kits and no builder assist. Except that if it's an RV-3, buy a flying one, they are cheaper than the cost to build.

From your post, it sounds like a custom-built airplane will suit you best. Please stay within the rules for amateur-built aircraft while you navigate that.

Dave
Slow-building an RV-3B
 
Buy it

I don't usually like to get involved in this type of discussion, but...

In 2012 I purchased a flying RV4, and in 2015 I purchased a flying RV8. Over the last 9 years I have learned a lot about RVs, and I've made many small/significant changes to these airplanes. I've learned construction techniques and maintenance procedures. Thus I have experienced the joy of building to some extent.

But when I show up at fly-ins I'm frequently asked the question, "Did you build it?" And I just say, "Nope, I just fly it".

Regardless of your choice, my advice is "Do it". These are wonderful airplanes, you will make a lot of good friends, and you will never regret it.
 
I am 35, I always wanted to build an RV. I feel like I have the skills to do it and the shop space but I don't have the time and money. Therefore we purchased an RV6-A and love it. Hopefully one day I can build an aircraft but now what little free time I have I spend it flying.
 
I’d rather fly than build and don’t really have the time or the resources to do both, so I bought an RV-9A a few months ago. I’ve spent enough time here on VAF as well as tinkering and adding to that plane that I have become completely convinced that that was absolutely the right choice for me. I respect those who commit to the building process but it’s become crystal clear that it’s not for me. On the positive side....that plane is a blast to fly.
 
I don't usually like to get involved in this type of discussion, but...when I show up at fly-ins I'm frequently asked the question, "Did you build it?" And I just say, "Nope, I just fly it".

When I get asked that question my usual retort is: Do I look crazy??? :D

I then go on to explain that I've done enough work on it I feel like I've become competent doing my own repairs and maintenance.

-Marc
 
The only way you will be able to stay motivated to finish a project of this magnitude is if you enjoy the project itself.
t.

There is the answer.
For myself, the building experience was a joy. I’m glad I did it. But I also waited until retirement. I didn’t think I had time for a full time job, family life, and building, all at the same time. For me, I still think that was the right call. Everyone is different, but few who consider building ‘work’ ever finish.
 
If I had it to do over again, I would have bought a basic VFR RV-4, flown it awhile. Then, decide whether or not I really wanted to build.

I probably would have ended up building something anyway. But, I feel kinda like a got into it backwards.

Spending beautiful flying days in the shop, listening to the endless drone of Cessnas and RVs going over my house was sometimes disappointing. And, spending wet winter days in a freezing cold shop was sometimes de-motivating.

But, every time I get out and fly my little Sonerai for a hour or 2, then spend more time talking trash with the RV guys that are ALWAYS at the airport, and ALWAYS ready to talk about there airplanes and let me drool over them is a huge motivator to get back into the shop and keep pounding rivets.

Its a good thing I have an understanding wife!
 
I’m in the BUILD catagory

For me it was about the build as much as it is about owning an RV.
Here are my pros and cons ( for me ).
Pros:
I love to build things
I’m in the HVAC industry, Im already familiar with metal.
I have two awesome kids but they are grown and moved out.
I am lucky that my finances allow me such a cool hobby.
I have the space and extra time for such a project.
I have the mental capacity to learn the techniques for building a safe and airworthy airplane. Some may disagree.
As someone mentioned in another post, the massive ego of knowing you built it.
Most importantly,I have great wife who puts up with me and the project. I’m just a tad over two years on the project and as most have learned, I’m 90% done with 90% to go and she still supports me and the aluminum mistress.

Cons:
The wife will only let me build one RV. (So far)
 
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If you aren't actually interested in building just buy a flying airplane and enjoy it.

Please do not go with one of the airplane mills out there that very obviously break the FAA E-AB rules but pretend it's fine because you work on the plane for 4 weeks and go in to get your picture taken holding tools. Those shops are gonna end up bringing the wrath of the FAA on all of us :(
 
All the bad news... It's an incredible amount of never ending work. You can learn the skills to do a good job, but if you are a quitter, quit now and buy a flying plane. It will take way longer than you think. You will make a lot of mistakes. Good news... Good way to avoid watching TV. You will learn to recover from your mistakes. Hugely rewarding to finish and fly. Flying airplanes are not that expensive, especially if you look at 4's and 6's with a VFR panel.
 
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1. Buy less than what you need so you can fly now.

2. With less than you want, you can then build what you dream of.
 
I bought the best RV-8 I could find. It was $125K. The receipts for parts and paint in the records added up to $40K more than I paid. Even though the builder did it all on his own, this total is way high but reflects the fact the second owner from who I bought it had loads of custom work done professionally including extended range tanks, G3X avionics panel and custom paint and airbrush work. The nose art was North of $3K alone. So there are in fact a few RV's that have more cost into them than market price.

I searched for 3 years and didn't compromise what I wanted. When my bird showed up on the market one afternoon I called and then jumped in my car and drove overnight to be at the seller's hangar first thing in the morning. A local had beat me to it and wanted it but he was a student pilot so the seller felt better selling it to me. Good RV's only last a few hours on the market and many times without formal advertising.
 
When people see my 8, they ask, "did you build it"? I always answer " No, if I built it, you wouldn't wanna fly in it, and neither would I":D:D
 
This Question comes up from time to time on numerous forums, build or buy.
No one can answer that for you directly only you can determine the outcome, all any of us can do/say is how 'we' made the decision.
Two things that determine the outcome to consider however and that's time & money, both precious commodities especially the former, you don't want to waste either.
Personally and this was my decision I bought, I let someone else take the loss.
I use the same philosophy when it comes to cars, nearly 50 years driving I've never bought a new car, again I let someone else take the loss/hit, each to their own.:)
 
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"built it yourself?"
"nope, but bought it myself" :D

Some very good advice in the preceding posts.
There has been quite some evolution in kit aircraft building over the years... a short (and hopefully more or less accurate ;)) history at Vans:

Phase I (also called the Jurassic Age)
The older design, namely the -3, -4, and -6, were either entirely plan built, or using a raw material kit, neither drilled nor bent nor trimmed sheetmetal, ribs and bulkheads requiring many hours of work, lots of figuring out for engine install, etc.

Phase II (Middle Age)
Building on the success of these designs, Vans acquired 2nd hand CNC machinery and started producing pre-drilled material, which later evolved into the match hole technology. Used on the -7, -8, -9, and I believe the first -10 (someone correct me on any detail, thanks)

Phase III (Modern Age)
This is today... basically no more "building", meaning the work left is an assembly of the different bits and pieces. Matched drilled to final size structure, quick-build options, pre-wired PNP panels, FWF kits, and more. Used on the -10 and -14, and soon the -15...
There are quite a few advantages to this phase, the biggest in regard to your decision is probably time. The assembly time for the kits using this LEGO tech can nowadays be measured in months, rather than in years as it used to be.
This is also something which you might have to consider should you acquire a project that has been started, for instance a phase I could still require many years of building to completion.

In any case wishing you good luck on your decision.
 
I my opinion you need to make sure your decision to build or buy should not only think about can you do the structural kit from Vans But also should include thinking about your skill level for the fire wall forward and panel/equipment install. Even when I built my 6A in 2000-2005 the non-prepunched Kit was relatively easy and had good instructions. That obviously has improved a lot in the last 15 years so I feel the structure is pretty straightforward now.

Were you really need to decide is on if you can do the engine and panel install as the costs can be great, options are limitless, lots of decisions on what to buy, mixing and matching different stuff can get complicated, many different skills required, and nothing is just following steps in a manual. Now that has also gotten better with FWF packages and some great panel providers but you, the builder, need to have a plan and skills to make it all come together. Structure is pretty easy to inspect and tell if it is good and safe due to great design and build manuals from Vans. Knowing engine and equipment failure modes and if you designed in any are a bit more complex.

I don’t know facts on where builders that don’t finish run into issues and decide to stop. Probably most are early with tail kit. But I do believe that FWF and panel are more complicated.
 
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1. Is it better to purchase a completed RV and upgrade to what I want, or build and get exactly what I want?
2. If I were to build, is it better to purchase a partial build, or start from scratch?

Joe, to answer question #1, here's my two cents worth.... Ask yourself this question, "If you knew you could never fly it, would you want to build it anyway?" If the answer is yes, then you certainly should build! If the answer is no, then maybe buying a flying plane is better. Building is about the journey, buying is about the destination, so ask yourself which is more important to you.

To answer your 2nd question... buying someone else's project would indicate that getting to the destination quicker is the goal, in that case, see answer to question #1.
 
Joe, welcome aboard the good ship VAF

there is an old saying, if you want to FLY=BUY. ;)

=VAF= RULES

IMG-2368.jpg
 
Things to ponder

  • It used to be that you had to build an RV if you wanted one, but that is no longer the case. There are plenty out there for sale, depending on which one you want and the condition you are willing to accept.
  • You can buy more airplane with your money than you can build with that same amount, typically.
  • Build quality is a big issue so what one person thinks is a 9 you may think is a 5 or 6, so be ready to be disappointed. Pictures can lie so always look at it in person.
  • You may never find the exact package you want in paint, interior and/or avionics so you will have to be ready to compromise.
  • Rebuilding/upgrading is always more difficult than you think. To me, its easier to build new rather than redo something.
  • Buying a flying plane means its already licensed. Unless you are an A&P you will need to find someone to do thorough condition inspections for you, which can be harder than you might think. As a builder, you can do your own inspections.
  • Buying kits from builders that gave up works great for me. I have done it several times, but be ready to redo some work that you don't like.
  • If you build, you will have to invest in more tools than if you buy.
  • If you buy a flying plane, and you are married, there is a higher likelihood that you will stay married than if you build.
  • If you decide to build, staying with the plans will get you flying quicker. Modifications or changes to the plans will add a lot of time to the build.
 
Thank-you to everyone

I really appreciate everyone's input and the warm welcome I have received; I'm glad I joined VAF.

Respectfully,

Joe
 
Consider this tip of the iceberg

If you slow build, you need to be -
a bit obsessed, persistent, resilient to discouraging occasions, ready to spend more than you expect to.
Each new kit makes you more committed to finishing, building is a huge commitment.
Maybe a little less if you can pay for quick-build kits and out sourcing things like the panel/avionics build.

If you buy a flying airplane -
clearly define your mission to set your sights for the model to fit it, and get the best pre-purchase inspection done that you can arrange. And, be very patient.
 
My Story:

Found an RV-6 with a fixed pitch, 160hp engine, tipper canopy, and old panel. All of this made the plane more affordable. I got a good prebuy and understood the build quality was good.

After flying for a while, I was able to save and get a new panel.

Today I help with the condition inspections, and get to fly a lot.

I may try a build someday with everything I want, but today I know that having a flying plane during the build will be a nice time compromise vs having nothing flying while taking the time to build "a perfect plane".

Like others have said...Time vs Money.
 
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