Obviously not allot of -3's around, not allot of market info. Also prices would vary greatly by how old, equipment, which wong it has etc etc, but what is a ballpark range one usually would expect and average one priced at? How much more is a newer "B" worth vs an older "A" with both of the wing mods done? Lets talk average airplanes both in condition times and equipment for simplicity. Thanks!
Van's Air Force
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RV-3 Market
- Thread starter NateZ
- Start date
Larry DeCamp
Well Known Member
3B Cost to build
There are old A's around with 0290 that need total refub for 15-20 k. I think A's in good condition ready to fly are about 35k. I am imbarrassed to admit that I have 55k in my B with steam gauges, Catto and NEW 0320 carb w/Pmags.
That said, when I costed out new a 3b fastback project with glass, new FI EI 3 blade etc. it came to 70k. My Current -4 project is on target for 65-70k. Biggest problem buying second hand is SOMETHING , paint, avionics,engine or prop is not what you would do and still need to spend money and time. Just my Observation.
There are old A's around with 0290 that need total refub for 15-20 k. I think A's in good condition ready to fly are about 35k. I am imbarrassed to admit that I have 55k in my B with steam gauges, Catto and NEW 0320 carb w/Pmags.
That said, when I costed out new a 3b fastback project with glass, new FI EI 3 blade etc. it came to 70k. My Current -4 project is on target for 65-70k. Biggest problem buying second hand is SOMETHING , paint, avionics,engine or prop is not what you would do and still need to spend money and time. Just my Observation.
Larry's numbers and comments are all in the ballpark. You don't even want to guess what we have into Tsam, with teh full IFR glass and the paint job. But the airplane wasn't built for economics, it was built because we wanted THAT airplane.
Many think that Van's would sell a ton of RV-3's if they would only modernize the kit. And it IS the mostly amazing airplane to fly, so you think that would be true. But once you price out the kit, engine, prop, avionics, interior, paint, etc....you find that it costs almost the same for a finished single seater as it does to build a two-seater....and reality sets in for most people and they give up on the idea. That wouldn't change if the kit was modernized - the prices would end up even closer to what it cots to build the bigger airplanes. That's all because the kit is a small portion of the overall cost of the finished airplane.
Basic economics. Throw it out the window once you have flown a -3...because you're going to want one!
Paul
Many think that Van's would sell a ton of RV-3's if they would only modernize the kit. And it IS the mostly amazing airplane to fly, so you think that would be true. But once you price out the kit, engine, prop, avionics, interior, paint, etc....you find that it costs almost the same for a finished single seater as it does to build a two-seater....and reality sets in for most people and they give up on the idea. That wouldn't change if the kit was modernized - the prices would end up even closer to what it cots to build the bigger airplanes. That's all because the kit is a small portion of the overall cost of the finished airplane.
Basic economics. Throw it out the window once you have flown a -3...because you're going to want one!
Paul
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Awesome guys thank you for the replies. I'm probably going to be asking allot of questions. Had an amazing -7 that we had to sell due to a partner needing to sell. Possibility of a real sweet -3 that I would paint and put a skyview in like our -7 had. Even though it only has one seat, it really seems to fit my bill perfectly, even being small enough to share a T hangar with my buddy.
An "A" with both wing mods is as safe as a"B" wing? I plan on flying primary IAC and sportsman aerobatics (but not sportsman in competition).
Been reading allot of old posts. Can you guys tell me what the areas to look for when pre-buying a -3?
An "A" with both wing mods is as safe as a"B" wing? I plan on flying primary IAC and sportsman aerobatics (but not sportsman in competition).
Been reading allot of old posts. Can you guys tell me what the areas to look for when pre-buying a -3?
steve lenne
Member
Rv3 all fun
I have a rv3b with an io320 and a whirlwind GA PROP with an empty weight of 820 pounds. I have flown in the rv7 and the rv6 which are great planes but nothing like the rv3 with 160 horses and light weight. 3000 ft/min climb and quick. The wings are so small when you first fly one you feel that any minute you are going to fall out of the sky. Not so until sub 47 kts.
This is a fun machine and worth what ever you pay for it if that is what you want.
Steve Lenne
Rv3b
Jabiru
Streak shadow
I have a rv3b with an io320 and a whirlwind GA PROP with an empty weight of 820 pounds. I have flown in the rv7 and the rv6 which are great planes but nothing like the rv3 with 160 horses and light weight. 3000 ft/min climb and quick. The wings are so small when you first fly one you feel that any minute you are going to fall out of the sky. Not so until sub 47 kts.
This is a fun machine and worth what ever you pay for it if that is what you want.
Steve Lenne
Rv3b
Jabiru
Streak shadow
RV-3 cost and economy
Another area of RV-3 economy to consider is fuel burn vs speed. I flew my 6 a few hundred hours with an O360 and have about 100 hrs on my 3 with an O320, fixed pitch and Pmags. If I'm out in the mountains loafing around in the amazing scenery I usually throttle back to about 2100 rpm and am usually in the 140 mph indicated range, at that throttle setting I can get four 1.3 hr flights out of 30 gals. This is less than 6 gals per hour, and I know it's pretty easy to see that or better in many planes powered by O320s, but not many of those will be traveling at 140 mph, or better still capable of simply throttling up to see 195 mph. Climbs like my CS O360 RV-6 did while sipping about 2-3 gph less for the same speeds. I switched to the 3 after years of flying the 6 predominantly solo, I do miss the 6, but not the fuel bills. I get comments from controllers all the time like "sure don't see RV-3s very often", "how fast is it?", "beautiful plane". I typically maneuver using pressure on the pads of my finger tips. You will never be sorry getting the 3 and average prices are always much less than the two seaters all else being equal.
Another area of RV-3 economy to consider is fuel burn vs speed. I flew my 6 a few hundred hours with an O360 and have about 100 hrs on my 3 with an O320, fixed pitch and Pmags. If I'm out in the mountains loafing around in the amazing scenery I usually throttle back to about 2100 rpm and am usually in the 140 mph indicated range, at that throttle setting I can get four 1.3 hr flights out of 30 gals. This is less than 6 gals per hour, and I know it's pretty easy to see that or better in many planes powered by O320s, but not many of those will be traveling at 140 mph, or better still capable of simply throttling up to see 195 mph. Climbs like my CS O360 RV-6 did while sipping about 2-3 gph less for the same speeds. I switched to the 3 after years of flying the 6 predominantly solo, I do miss the 6, but not the fuel bills. I get comments from controllers all the time like "sure don't see RV-3s very often", "how fast is it?", "beautiful plane". I typically maneuver using pressure on the pads of my finger tips. You will never be sorry getting the 3 and average prices are always much less than the two seaters all else being equal.
I've seen many posts about a pre-punched RV-3. Looks like that isn't going to happen. Apparently its not profitable.
Vans offers a quick-build wing for the RV-3B and many have paid the premium for that option.
What about an RV-3B quick-build fuselage?
It could be offered at a profitable premium and the work could be outsourced.
Vans offers a quick-build wing for the RV-3B and many have paid the premium for that option.
What about an RV-3B quick-build fuselage?
It could be offered at a profitable premium and the work could be outsourced.
jliltd
Well Known Member
The used airplane market has been fickle for about 5 years now and there are many models that sell for less than the cost of a major engine overhaul. We're talking show-quality Pitts S1-C's for $20K. Light twins like older 310's are totals at TBO and there are some great bang for the bucks like Comanches. Myself and 4 friends bought a flying Luscombe for $10K so compare that to a new Harley Davidson motor cycle.
In my many-year quest for a nice RV-3B this fickle value trend never surfaced. Is the RV-3B immune? People who have RV-3's tend to keep them and that combined with the supply and demand keeps their value up. Although it pained me to admit it as a buyer, I have to agree with previous posters that even the high end of the market is valued at or below replacement cost of a new build done right. 3B quick build wings are a thing of beauty inside. Original RV3 fuselage is pretty much the same with the exception of removing the fuselage tank if swapping the wings out for new 3B wings.
I think one must put things into perspective and in an aircraft world where Rotax-powered LSA's are topping out over $200K and Legend Cubs are in the $140K range a nice RV-3B could easily be worth $50K+. Especially for somebody like me who knows exactly what I want, why I want it, what it is, and what it isn't.
Two years ago I had a price quote from a professional build shop to build an RV-3B from a nice partial kit on the market and outfit it the way I wanted it with modern panel and paint (manual trim, no autopilot). Came in over $80K all in with the discounted project purchase finished with fixed pitch prop and field-overhaul carbed 160hp Lycoming conical mount engine. And probably a fairly realistic number based on today's labor rates and overhead costs. That's part of where the DIY concept home building can help offset a bit of the cost. I have built 2 EABs in the past but couldn't see myself investing the time into a 3 any time soon (I have 7 birds, 4 of which are ongoing projects).
Aside from the earlier model wing teething pains has anybody ever heard of a pilot who has flown an RV-3 ever say something negative about it? One seat. One pilot. Effortless delightful handling. And I have even heard folks talk about a light RV-3 with an O-235 Lycoming having the most delightful handling of all due to light weight.
The legendary handling lore of the RV-3 is what set me out to find the best RV-3B I could find a few years ago. Well, that and having one bad experience of getting stuck with a bichin' back seater on one long trip. I was driven and trolled the market. That finally culminated in my purchase of a nice RV-3B (160hp + 3bl Catto) last year. I paid right at $50K and I have not regretted it. Every bit as fun as a Pitts with blazing speed and the capability to travel. Very satisfying. And unlike the Pitts I don't get too excited about checking out a competent buddy in it.
Jim
In my many-year quest for a nice RV-3B this fickle value trend never surfaced. Is the RV-3B immune? People who have RV-3's tend to keep them and that combined with the supply and demand keeps their value up. Although it pained me to admit it as a buyer, I have to agree with previous posters that even the high end of the market is valued at or below replacement cost of a new build done right. 3B quick build wings are a thing of beauty inside. Original RV3 fuselage is pretty much the same with the exception of removing the fuselage tank if swapping the wings out for new 3B wings.
I think one must put things into perspective and in an aircraft world where Rotax-powered LSA's are topping out over $200K and Legend Cubs are in the $140K range a nice RV-3B could easily be worth $50K+. Especially for somebody like me who knows exactly what I want, why I want it, what it is, and what it isn't.
Two years ago I had a price quote from a professional build shop to build an RV-3B from a nice partial kit on the market and outfit it the way I wanted it with modern panel and paint (manual trim, no autopilot). Came in over $80K all in with the discounted project purchase finished with fixed pitch prop and field-overhaul carbed 160hp Lycoming conical mount engine. And probably a fairly realistic number based on today's labor rates and overhead costs. That's part of where the DIY concept home building can help offset a bit of the cost. I have built 2 EABs in the past but couldn't see myself investing the time into a 3 any time soon (I have 7 birds, 4 of which are ongoing projects).
Aside from the earlier model wing teething pains has anybody ever heard of a pilot who has flown an RV-3 ever say something negative about it? One seat. One pilot. Effortless delightful handling. And I have even heard folks talk about a light RV-3 with an O-235 Lycoming having the most delightful handling of all due to light weight.
The legendary handling lore of the RV-3 is what set me out to find the best RV-3B I could find a few years ago. Well, that and having one bad experience of getting stuck with a bichin' back seater on one long trip. I was driven and trolled the market. That finally culminated in my purchase of a nice RV-3B (160hp + 3bl Catto) last year. I paid right at $50K and I have not regretted it. Every bit as fun as a Pitts with blazing speed and the capability to travel. Very satisfying. And unlike the Pitts I don't get too excited about checking out a competent buddy in it.
Jim
ppilotmike
Well Known Member
I too..
..went on the quest for a perfect RV-3B. I found a well-built partial project and bought it. It sat in my shop for a few years, taunting me to finish it. Alas, in the end, I had to sell her to help me fund the completion of my RV-10. Having flown in a 4 and talked to many RV-3 pilots, I am sure this plane is what I want, some day.. For now, I am focused on finishing my family bird. Perhaps later in life, I will find a good 3 to enjoy. The Panther, I've heard, is not a bad substitute, but I believe it is, in fact, only a substitute for the much-loved RV-3...
..went on the quest for a perfect RV-3B. I found a well-built partial project and bought it. It sat in my shop for a few years, taunting me to finish it. Alas, in the end, I had to sell her to help me fund the completion of my RV-10. Having flown in a 4 and talked to many RV-3 pilots, I am sure this plane is what I want, some day.. For now, I am focused on finishing my family bird. Perhaps later in life, I will find a good 3 to enjoy. The Panther, I've heard, is not a bad substitute, but I believe it is, in fact, only a substitute for the much-loved RV-3...
JonJay
Well Known Member
I have only flown one other airplane that handled as well as the RV3 and then some, and I own it. Overall performance, hard to beat the 3.
However, you would be surprised how well a legacy RV4 or RV6 handle when they are not plumped up with big motors, heavy CS props, fancy interiors, etc....but most of us made those choices for other reasons than pure handling.
If you have ever flown a sub 1000# 4 or 6, they are not that far off from the feel you get in a 3. The 4 suffers from the compromise of accommodating a back seat even when solo and the 6 in balance to a degree in solo due to seating position.
The 3 still wins in overall handling enjoyment but we start splitting hairs between all the models, especially the light legacy 4's and 6's.
The lack of utility of the 3's makes them like the sports car world. Nice to have but not very practical when most consider what they want in an airplane and the resources they have to put to a "hobby", in both time and money.
I wish I had a 3, and Honda Jet, and a SuperCub, and..??.., oh, and limitless time, a mechanic on call, a fuel farm, ..... you get the point. If you only can support one airplane, it probably isn't going to be the 3 unless you want it for "social" aspects
However, you would be surprised how well a legacy RV4 or RV6 handle when they are not plumped up with big motors, heavy CS props, fancy interiors, etc....but most of us made those choices for other reasons than pure handling.
If you have ever flown a sub 1000# 4 or 6, they are not that far off from the feel you get in a 3. The 4 suffers from the compromise of accommodating a back seat even when solo and the 6 in balance to a degree in solo due to seating position.
The 3 still wins in overall handling enjoyment but we start splitting hairs between all the models, especially the light legacy 4's and 6's.
The lack of utility of the 3's makes them like the sports car world. Nice to have but not very practical when most consider what they want in an airplane and the resources they have to put to a "hobby", in both time and money.
I wish I had a 3, and Honda Jet, and a SuperCub, and..??.., oh, and limitless time, a mechanic on call, a fuel farm, ..... you get the point. If you only can support one airplane, it probably isn't going to be the 3 unless you want it for "social" aspects
oaklandaviator
Well Known Member
RV-3
I bought an RV-3 about three years ago as a second airplane primarily for my wife to fly. By the time I got it home I realized it's one of the sweetest flying airplanes I've ever been in. Closest thing to it was an S1-S Pitts, but the 3 has it beat in my opinion due to the incredible speed range, both high and low, ease of landing in many conditions, and of course the RV community.
As for the market, I can say after owning it for a bit less than a year, we decided to take it down and make a few modifications because we loved it so much! The plane first flew in 1994 and has had the wing mods done so it's back capable of aerobatics. We put inverted fuel and oil systems, GRT mini GA efis, fuel computer, lightweight EarthX battery, Skytek starter, and a three blade Catto prop. Many other things were done during the refit including new gear legs, engine overhaul, power increase to 160 horsepower, and such. Don't know what the "market" says mine is worth, but I've got a lot more in it than what a typical 3A might bring... That's okay though, cuz she's worth every penny to us.
I bought an RV-3 about three years ago as a second airplane primarily for my wife to fly. By the time I got it home I realized it's one of the sweetest flying airplanes I've ever been in. Closest thing to it was an S1-S Pitts, but the 3 has it beat in my opinion due to the incredible speed range, both high and low, ease of landing in many conditions, and of course the RV community.
As for the market, I can say after owning it for a bit less than a year, we decided to take it down and make a few modifications because we loved it so much! The plane first flew in 1994 and has had the wing mods done so it's back capable of aerobatics. We put inverted fuel and oil systems, GRT mini GA efis, fuel computer, lightweight EarthX battery, Skytek starter, and a three blade Catto prop. Many other things were done during the refit including new gear legs, engine overhaul, power increase to 160 horsepower, and such. Don't know what the "market" says mine is worth, but I've got a lot more in it than what a typical 3A might bring... That's okay though, cuz she's worth every penny to us.
