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Interesting Rocket Ad

sailvi767

Well Known Member
I have enjoyed the RV6 I purchased so much that I am considering a Rocket. I have been watching the ads. I have a business for sale and if that goes through will switch from watching to actively looking. I did however come across a aircraft that interested me. I am not sure if I would want to call on the aircraft after reading the ad. Perhaps I am putting to much into what was written but it sounds almost hostile to possible purchasers. Here is part of it.

No dreamers, schemers or trades. No joyrides! Get permission from your wife, and get your own insurance quote. Do your research before calling me, save the dumb questions for the RV guys(!), and get your finances straight, or don't waste my time.

Would any of you respond to this ad?

George
 
Sounds like he has had a lot of lookers...but no takers! If you're serious, check it out...but methinks you shouldn't offer any "excuses" to the guy. If you like it, make him an offer. If you don't like it, tell him so and walk away.
 
He's probably had toooooo many tire kickers in the past. If I were interested, I'd call him on the phone & see what his attitude really is.

Marshall Alexander
 
I would not unless I wanted to pay $119,500 for the airplane without speaking with him. I'm all for being PIC and blunt but this guy is just being an a$$hole. Saying that, I know this guy and that is just the way he is.

The flaps say something like:

No Step
No Kids
Just keep your a$$ off!

Edit: I will say that when I first saw this plane about 5 years ago it was a masterpiece. I briefly saw it about 2 years ago but didn't pay much attention since I had seen it before. Unless he has really abused it, I'm sure it is a nice aircraft.
 
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Assuming you have the real interest, I'd probably be as blunt with him as he is with his ad. Also lends me to make everything more official, more in writing, etc...and quite "steamroll resistant".
 
people can be very interesting but not good sales man. a person like this can ruin a sale so be patient and good luck. i have not seen any 'bad' rockets. you are definitely a speed demon. keep us posted on your venture.
imgresce.jpg
 
Maybe a little blunt but he's right...there are a lot of tire kickers out there. And you would be surprised at how many times I've had to tell kids to get off of friends planes at flyins with the parents 3 feet away. I've seen kids walking across RV wings, standing on wheelpants, climbing up on flaps. Last year I politely told a parent to remove their child off of a friends Tailwind wheelpant and he stormed off to the next plane and stood the kid on the wheelpant. I about got unglued!
 
No dreamers, schemers or trades. No joyrides! Get permission from your wife, and get your own insurance quote. Do your research before calling me, save the dumb questions for the RV guys(!), and get your finances straight, or don't waste my time.

Would any of you respond to this ad?

I wouldn't waste my time. He obviously doesn't want to answer any questions.

Like it or not it's a buyers market and part of selling a plane is dealing with tire kickers. You just never know when a tire kicker with "dumb" questions has a pocket full of cash and will turn into a buyer.

Based on the comments in the ad I would wonder if he really has a personality that lends itself to good judgement which I thnk is essential in doing a good job building a good quality aircraft.
 
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I wouldn't waste my time. He obviously doesn't want to answer any questions.

Like it or not it's a buyers market and part of selling a plane is dealing with tire kickers. You just never know when a tire kicker with "dumb" questions has a pocket full of cash and will turn into a buyer.

Based on the comments in the ad I would wonder if he really has a personality that lends itself to good judgement which I thnk is essential in doing a good job building a good quality aircraft.

I agree, if he doesn't want to do through the process of selling it then dont put it on the market.
 
It's fair to say the Rocket is a no nonsense plane, sounds like this owner is too.

I have no problems with the add what so ever. Been the seller before and understand where he's coming from. If it takes longer to sell but weeds out some of the tire kickers, well worth it IMHO.

If you're desperate to sell I wouldn't write an add like this, I'm guessing he isn't in a hurry.
 
I have sold planes before and they have always ended up in good homes with great new owners. All is good. However the process of getting these good new owners can be frustrating. I have had people purchase airline tickets to come see my plane, go for a ride and a free lunch, take half a day of my time, and then tell me that they are not really in a position to purchase an aircraft, they just like spending time with airplanes! I might not have phrased the ad the way this seller did but I can certainly understand why he did it. It looks like a nice airplane and it is priced right. If you are serious call him and offer to pay his fuel and time, refundable on purchase. Good Luck and I hope you become a new and active rocket owner.
 
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I had a line on a plane once that I really liked; it fit my mission requirement perfectly, was reasonably priced, and was even local. After the seller jerked me around on the phone a bit, I stopped returning his calls and ended up purchasing another plane. You want to feel trust with a guy that you are purchasing an airplane from; the question you have to ask yourself is does this ad give you a warm fuzzy about not just the plane, but the current owner of it?
 
The ad says it all, if you are interested go see it, if not, don't waste my time, I think brutal honestly is a good policy, I have an RV and I thought it was quite funny,
 
I had a line on a plane once that I really liked; it fit my mission requirement perfectly, was reasonably priced, and was even local. After the seller jerked me around on the phone a bit, I stopped returning his calls and ended up purchasing another plane. You want to feel trust with a guy that you are purchasing an airplane from; the question you have to ask yourself is does this ad give you a warm fuzzy about not just the plane, but the current owner of it?
maybe it's a good airplane. Maybe the seller doesn't want the airplane to be nitpicked apart because he knows it has issues.
 
Rocket Ad

I don't like everyone with whom I have to do business. I just have to trust them enough with what I can't check for myself to not get completely screwed. Whenever I go to buy something I have the money arranged up front (as much as possible) and have done my research, as well.

The seller may be a prize jerk or he may be protecting himself from a bunch of prize jerks masquerading as buyers. Who cares? Focus on the deal. Friendliness, congeniality, and a warm, fuzzy personality may be nice if you want to hang around with someone, but if you're doing business with someone you want to focus on value for dollar spent.
 
Don't Judge a Book by its Cover

.......Would any of you respond to this ad?.....
I would respond to that ad, and quickly. Our world is over populated with smooth talking, persuasive hacks who talk a better game than they can actually deliver. My gut tell me this guy is an above average craftsman with an exceptional airplane who has little patience for time wasting Lookie Lous. When I sold my exceptionally restored 1966 C150 a few years ago, I demanded a premium price and priced it higher than almost all other C150's listed in Trade-A-Plane that particular year and month. In the end, only serious buyers showed up. Well, I got that premium price by being blunt and to most potential buyers, maybe a little bit off putting. My advice to you is this....check out that airplane! The builder values his time and obviously takes pride in his airplane the same ways I do. Knowing how I feel about idle time wasting chit chat, I am inclined to instinctively respect his curmudgeonly mindset. :)
 
I can say this, it's one heck of a lot easier to deal with folks who are RV'ers than that vast unwashed public that might just be starting to dip their toes in.

Dale Walters of this forum bought my "baby" 5 weeks ago and he is not a builder but knew more about RV's than I ever will. He asked lots of questions but they were smart questions if you know what I mean. A more honest and pleasant guy to do business with would be hard to find.

And then... I bought David Domeier's -7a last week and again, very knowledgable, honest and easy to work with, even flew it out here from MO, in the middle of the winter for me because my medical is on hold.
 
Most people can tell the difference between a persuasive hack and a trustworthy person, but that usually comes from asking questions. If the seller isn't interested in answering questions then that would be an immediate red flag in my opinion. Others may disagree.
 
Serious Shopping experiences

I went RV6 shopping twice this summer, purchasing airline tickets, hiring and taking an expert along, taking time off work, etc. Not a tire kicking experience, but an expensive logistical exercise for me.

First trip I and the expert examined the plane and he pointed out certain areas of concern. So I said I wouldn't make an offer and we flew the airline back. It wasn't easy to walk away - so much planning, wire transfer arrangements, etc... I expect the seller was frustrated, but with $50,000 on the line, this is a very serious decision.

Second trip to another state, same expert, more airline tickets, logistics, and it all came together. I'm happy every day with the plane! The seller was kind to pick us up at BNA, accommodated inspection requests, and even bought full fuel to send us on our way. The seller and I occasionally email each other and I regard him as a trusted friend.

I wouldn't spend time with this Rocket seller. I don't like dealing with cranky people, and that ad screams cranky. If the seller can't avoid getting spun up maybe they should get a trusted friend to manage the potential buyers and inspectors.
 
Up Your Game

Having recently put on my game face to buy a plane, albeit an 8KCAB, I tend to agree with Rick. I did a lot of research on it's type (construction, maintenance, inspection know-how, etc) before I went looking. I didn't expect the seller to educate me on fundamentals ("dumb questions"). In fact, I didn't want to be misled because of my ignorance, either.
I suggest some equally blunt talk informing him the how's of your readiness to buy his specific airplane and any concerns you may have about his endulgence/support (or lack thereof) letting you satisfying those as it relates to the condition of the airplane.
Alot of buyers are unsure about what type they're looking for, their ability to handle the plane, their finances, their logistics and some are just chumming for hot deals. If your only variable is making sure his Rocket is the right Rocket I'll venture he will treat you fairly.
That's one man's opinion; I could be wrong.
 
What to lose?

Phone call and/or email are cheap. You are looking for an airplane not a new drinking buddy.
 
Rocket

I find this discussion quite amusing. Not wanting to take a pot shot at the original poster I offer the following, all hypothetical:
I really really want a Rocket. If I sold a bunch of stuff that is probably not marketable in todays economy I MIGHT be able to come up with the money. By definition I am a TIRE KICKER. I do not have the money to purchase a Rocket, therefore I would be imposing on the seller by wasting his time. What is so hard to understand about this???
Obviously, among other issues, the seller does not want his pride and joy to go to someone who:
1. Cannot fly the Rocket
2. Cannot obtain insurance
3. etc etc etc.
I have seen this airplane. It is very close to Oshkosh Grand Champion caliber. Compare the price to Rick Grays airplane in the next ad on Barnstormers. Do you want to spend nearly twice the money for a multiple Grand Champion winner. Somewhere there is a buyer for Ricks magnificant creation, but buyers at that level are few and far between.
Check the price of the three blade Hartzell and the custom 0 540 as on the Georgia airplane.
If I were a real Rocket buyer I would send the gentleman in GA a check with just two questions. Do you want to deliver it or should I pick it up?
 
... save the dumb questions for the RV guys(!), and get your finances straight, or don't waste my time ...

The only thing I have a problem with is the above statement. It implies that we're all a bunch of idiots and he is somehow superior to all of our nonsense. If I met his other criteria -- I had my wife's permission, had the money, knew what I was looking at and talking about, etc. -- then a phone call would tell me whether this guy is just a jerk or is just trying hard to weed out the tire-kickers.

If I got good vibes from the phone call, then I'd wire him a deposit, make plans to visit and see the plane, check out the log books, insist that I buy the gas for a check-out flight and hand him a certified check for the rest.

Having seen Rick's planes, if this one is even half as nice, you should make the call. Good luck.
 
I wouldn't hold it against him.

No dreamers, schemers or trades. No joyrides! Get permission from your wife, and get your own insurance quote. Do your research before calling me, save the dumb questions... and get your finances straight, or don't waste my time.

Is it professional? No. Is it something a professional airplane sales person wants to say on the last hot, sweaty, miserable day of Oshkosh or Sun n Fun? :eek: I can empathize. :eek:
 
I find this discussion quite amusing. Not wanting to take a pot shot at the original poster I offer the following, all hypothetical:
I really really want a Rocket. If I sold a bunch of stuff that is probably not marketable in todays economy I MIGHT be able to come up with the money. By definition I am a TIRE KICKER. I do not have the money to purchase a Rocket, therefore I would be imposing on the seller by wasting his time. What is so hard to understand about this???
Obviously, among other issues, the seller does not want his pride and joy to go to someone who:
1. Cannot fly the Rocket
2. Cannot obtain insurance
3. etc etc etc.
I have seen this airplane. It is very close to Oshkosh Grand Champion caliber. Compare the price to Rick Grays airplane in the next ad on Barnstormers. Do you want to spend nearly twice the money for a multiple Grand Champion winner. Somewhere there is a buyer for Ricks magnificant creation, but buyers at that level are few and far between.
Check the price of the three blade Hartzell and the custom 0 540 as on the Georgia airplane.
If I were a real Rocket buyer I would send the gentleman in GA a check with just two questions. Do you want to deliver it or should I pick it up?

I think I pointed out in the original post that I am simply pondering a Rocket and not actively looking at this point. If I saw a exceptional deal I might jump on it now but I have a very nice RV6. I have not called or contacted anyone to purchase their aircraft. When I start calling and go to look I will have my checkbook in hand and be ready to buy. It took about 3 months and a lot of calling and looking to find the right six. I don't expect finding the right Rocket if I go that route will be any easier.
One thing I will mention. Vince from Vince's Rockets was kind enough to offer to talk about Rockets with me. He is a wealth of information and I learned a bunch of things that I did not pick up in scanning this and other forums.

George
 
My take on this thread is somewhat contradictory. I kind of like the guy's attitude in todays market, he has guts, but there's no way I'd go hear him since I can't stand cranky people.

Selling an airplane is a learning experience just like building and flying it. Some years ago, being completely unlearned to the experience, I was selling a LEZ because I wanted to build a Defiant. There was a guy in Ohio who was very interested, sounded sincere, and could I possibly fly it to his area since he had a full time job at a university and did not have the time to come and look at it. He would pay expenses. So, I blasted off from Connecticut to Ohio one day, got there, he saw it, liked it, and would I stay overnight with them and we could talk closing the deal. Well, it became evident during the evening his wife was not on the same page and they had an augment over the matter. It was a very long night for me and in the morning I flew back to Connecticut having wasted a couple days learning about selling an airplane.

Selling is a natural for some but not for me. I hate haggling or selling something with defects, so I tell the whole story and that's not the way to make money.

Knowing the market is also most important. The price of engines has gone up in the past few years. It looks like another engine like what Jerry has in 7DD will cost at least $4000 more than it did just three years ago. I did not know that two weeks ago. Lycoming may have decided to go after the buck after Superior went away. They pretty much control the market it seems.

Getting back to the thread, the guy who is selling the Rocket believes his machine is about perfect so take it or leave and don't waste my time if you're not ready to deal. Whoever buys it won't have much fun, like share a beer and just talk, it will be all about the airplane, money and nothing else.

I wouldn't go near him no matter what. People are a part of the experience and if there is no person to person connection that has some good feeling, its not worth it to me but that's just me. I don't care that much about perfect toys without a positive human connection.
 
It appears to run a bit more then double what you would pay for a RV and there are limited underwriters. In the back of my mind I am wondering what a XP-408 in a RV8 might be like. Could be light and close to a rocket in performance with the lower RV insurance rates. There are to many options to think about in the RV world!!!!

George
 
I really don't think Jim meant to imply we are all a bunch of idiots. Not at all. But Jim obviously knows people and I thought every word of his post absolutely nailed it to a tee.....my compliments Jim!

I sold an airplane once. I didn't much like the experience. Too many tire kickers come out of the wood work looking for free rides for the wife and kid and a steep reduction in your asking price. Then, if your friendly manner makes you appear negotiable, they leave you with promise of a quick return to close the deal but of course, they never do. I don't have time for all that nonsense and neither does the Rocket owner, I'll wager. Some guys learn to deal with it by being blunt.

Bunch of idiots? Nah. The seller just wants to discourage the kind of buyer who's got nothing better to do than to show up at a neighborhood open house hoping the smiling realtor thoughtfully left some cookies in the kitchen he can mooch. The same type of buyer who goes to Sam's to snag as many free food samples as he can stuff into his face. The same time of buyer who would eagerly accept a Rocket ride on the low end of cheap. I wouldn't necessarily call that type of individual an "idiot" but I will call him something else, that's for sure. :)

Now, when I did sell my airplane Don, it was to a no nonsense person like you. Like you, that thoughtful buyer made the process easy. By then, I'd had it with tire kickers and I found myself becoming for lack of a better word...blunt. Period. End of story. No negotiation. Then it happened. Like you would handle the transaction Don, there was his long distance telephone call, the cross country trip to meet me, a review of the log books that ended with the I'm not kidding deposit. These are the very things you described in your post. But unlike you Don, the buyer was not interested in compensating me for gas. He knew what he wanted from the get go. Besides, the runway was covered with ice that day and flying was not possible. On his return trip a week later to retrieve the plane, he just paid the balance in full and never even flown it yet, loaded his and his son's belongings into that little old C-150 I'd proudly owned and preened for 18½ years of my life and they took off for home.

Unless I miss my guess Don, that is exactly the kind of buyer the Rocket owner is addressing his ad to and I have little doubt that he and the right buyer of his gleaming pride and joy will, sooner or later, meet up.
 
If you want to avoid the hassles of selling your airplane on the open market, use a broker. Yes, you will leave some of your $ in their pocket, but there is a reason they exist, and one primary reason is to deal with the "tire kickers".
 
School of hard knocks

I haven't sold an airplane yet, but I have learned a few things from selling the few cars I've sold.

One thing I won't do is take a deposit. About 20 years ago I was selling a car. A potential buyer wanted the car and I accepted a deposit until she could "arrange financing." A few days later she wanted to back out because her banker told her he couldn't loan her the money. She really ticked me off when she asked for her deposit back. Yeah, I should have been hard-hearted and said, "Too bad," but I didn't. When she left, I told myself I'd never do that again. If you want the car, show up with the money...either cash or a cashier's check. First person who shows up with the money gets the car. No deposits.

I figure I'll do the same when I sell my airplane.
 
One thing I won't do is take a deposit. About 20 years ago I was selling a car. A potential buyer wanted the car and I accepted a deposit until she could "arrange financing." A few days later she wanted to back out because her banker told her he couldn't loan her the money. She really ticked me off when she asked for her deposit back. Yeah, I should have been hard-hearted and said, "Too bad," but I didn't. When she left, I told myself I'd never do that again. If you want the car, show up with the money...either cash or a cashier's check. First person who shows up with the money gets the car. No deposits.

I figure I'll do the same when I sell my airplane.

A long time ago I sold a cream puff '79 Riviera three times and made out nicely because the first two almost-buyers gave deposits but couldn't follow through. I gave them a hand-written receipt that said the deposit paid for x-days of taking it off the market; non-refundable.

Every deal is unique. If you treat it as such you become more flexible to situations/people like is being discussed.
 
The same type of buyer who goes to Sam's to snag as many free food samples as he can stuff into his face.


Rick,
You have apparently seen my 90 y/o father! However, he does have standards...He goes to Costco! :D
 
Rude

I have thought about this for several days is where he refers to 'ask the RV guys' as if we were some sort of plant life?

His comments probably have the desired effect.......... but I could see that to some people they could be like red rag to a bull, someone might just call him to wind him up. Not that I am suggesting such a thing:D

Looked at the aeroplane on BS and it looks a beauty........ apart from the panel which is a bit disorganised. The asking price seems right too.

Now where are my tyre kicking shoes..........
 
It appears to run a bit more then double what you would pay for a RV and there are limited underwriters. In the back of my mind I am wondering what a XP-408 in a RV8 might be like. Could be light and close to a rocket in performance with the lower RV insurance rates. There are to many options to think about in the RV world!!!!

George

Forget the Rocket, stick a XP-408 in your RV and your set...............Want more than turbocharge it :D:D:D
 
Rocket ADD

I thought about sending him this email. Hi. I am just a "Dumb RV guy" but I was looking at the photos of your Rocket and was wondering why you have instruments right out of the Vans accessories catalog, they eaven have the RV airplane on them. :D
 
Just because you are selling something does not automatically require you to kneel at the feet of every "interested"call. We sell alot of our construction equipment, everything from riding lawnmowers to dozers.A large majority of these" I'm really interested"people are more into their own curiosity than actually wanting to buy.Then there are the ones who try to tell you everything about your machine and are just hoping you are an idiot and are clueless as to what you are selling and just hope you will practically Pay Them to take it off your hands when in fact they have no need or real intentions of wanting what you have for sale.When we offer something for sale were not doing it just to meet people or wait for the social interaction or to add them to our christmas card list or wait for them to be back because they need to think about it. I feel the man in the ad is vetting tirekickers in his own way and if it works and he is not needing to get out from underneath what he is selling. so be it.
 
Rocket

This is exactly the kind of guy I'd buy from. Sounds like a straight shooter and to the point.
 
And just an a couple of ads down, there's this:

" If you have a deposit check in hand with cash to follow, let's talk. If not, DON'T WASTE MY TIME! If you have a particular question that's NOT ON THE SITE ALREADY, feel free to ask."

Funny way of doing business...maybe it works for them, I dunno. "My product is so good, you should be *begging* me to buy it, and I can pick and choose my customers at will, so up yours!" :)

I learned a loooooong time ago that you have no idea whether the person walking in your place of business is fabulously rich or destitute, and you can't tell by their clothes or their speech or their manners or their questions or their interest (or lack thereof) in your product. Therefore, you treat everyone the same...with respect and courtesy until they give you a good reason not to. Oh, and because it's the right way to treat people, too. :)

Wonder how many truly potential buyers ads like this run off just because of their attitude?
 
Well done that man

Steve,

I couldn't agree more.

He could have said all of that with respect and still be straight.

Like;
"Please understand that when calling me the first question I will ask is do you have $XXX,000.00 in either credit or liquid cash. I understand people being interested but the purpose of the add is to exchange this wonderful aircraft that I own for money you own. If your playing that game then I would love to hear from you :)"

Then just ask that question as a start. That will stop people wasting your time.

It doesn't take much to communicate with respect and put away the teenage anxs
 
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