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  #1  
Old 12-15-2015, 07:52 AM
BillFear BillFear is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sherrills Ford, NC (Lake norman area)
Posts: 432
Default Need Cylinder Shop Recommendation

Engine is a 1000 hour Mattituck TMXO-360 in a 2005 RV7a. Runs fine, compression tests fine. Issue is high oil consumption at 1 Qt every 3.5 hours. We have verified it is not leaking and that it is not being blown out. No metal in the oil filter and it does not foul plugs. So the assumption is it is being burned in combustion.

Looking to pull the cylinders and send them out to a knowledgeable shop that will give us an honest assessment and a reasonable repair. Plane is in NC so the southeast would be great but not essential.

Please recommend any shops that specialize in this type of work where you have had good experiences. As always, stories of your experiences are appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 12-15-2015, 08:36 AM
flynwest flynwest is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 381
Default Oil burn

If you fill the crankcase to the full mark it will throw out the first two quarts quickly. If you run it at 6 quarts it will not. I don't add a quart until it is down to 5 quarts.
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  #3  
Old 12-15-2015, 08:56 AM
BillFear BillFear is offline
 
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Location: Sherrills Ford, NC (Lake norman area)
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flynwest View Post
If you fill the crankcase to the full mark it will throw out the first two quarts quickly. If you run it at 6 quarts it will not. I don't add a quart until it is down to 5 quarts.
yes, we keep it between 5 and 6 quarts, no more.
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Contribution in for 2017, money well spent
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  #4  
Old 12-15-2015, 09:58 AM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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Location: Locust Grove, GA
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Default Graham

I used Graham aircraft engines in Newnan Georgia to do mine. I just had the same problem with a 930 hours Mattituck Red Gold IO-540. I put on 6 new Superior Millenium cylinders and had Graham ring them for me.

Vic
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  #5  
Old 12-15-2015, 10:22 AM
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dmaib dmaib is offline
 
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Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 1,339
Default

I had nearly identical symptoms on my IO-540. Took it to Zephyr Aircraft Engines in Zephyrhills, FL. Their reputation is excellent and I have been very pleased. I now have 11 hours on new cylinders and oil consumption is just about nil. Fast service and very reasonable pricing. Call them at 813-788-3305 and ask for L.J., the shop manager.
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  #6  
Old 12-15-2015, 11:06 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
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Default

You didn't mention what brand cylinders are on the engine, or the cylinder finish. My Mattituck built in that era was all ECI components, including Cerminil Cylinders. ECI has a problem with the rings used with Cerminil delaminating, and that produced exactly the symptoms you are seeing. The Cerminil is tricky to hone, because it is so hard, and many shops wouldn't touch them. I was unaware of the ring issue and when I called ECI I told them what was going on, and asked about how to hone and re-ring the cylinders, thinking they were just glazed. I essentially got no help at all, except that they could recondition the cylinders for a price not much less than what a new Lycoming Nitrided stud assembly would cost from A.E.R.O. - so I bought four new jugs and put these on the shelf.

I later talked with an ECI VP (this was a few years ago) at SnF, and was told that they certainly would have taken care of me because they knew about the ring issues - I had to thank him for nothing, because by then, I'd already been flying with the Lycoming cylinders.

Bottom line - if you have Cerminil, you might call ECI directly and see if they will help you out.
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  #7  
Old 12-15-2015, 11:08 AM
Grum.man Grum.man is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Statesville, NC
Posts: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillFear View Post
Engine is a 1000 hour Mattituck TMXO-360 in a 2005 RV7a. Runs fine, compression tests fine. Issue is high oil consumption at 1 Qt every 3.5 hours. We have verified it is not leaking and that it is not being blown out. No metal in the oil filter and it does not foul plugs. So the assumption is it is being burned in combustion.

Looking to pull the cylinders and send them out to a knowledgeable shop that will give us an honest assessment and a reasonable repair. Plane is in NC so the southeast would be great but not essential.

Please recommend any shops that specialize in this type of work where you have had good experiences. As always, stories of your experiences are appreciated.
My only recommendation is that you do not use Triad Aviation in Burlington. You can PM me for details but they returned some cylinders to service that never should have been.
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  #8  
Old 12-16-2015, 04:15 PM
BillFear BillFear is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sherrills Ford, NC (Lake norman area)
Posts: 432
Default Thanks for the inputs

please keep them coming.
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Contribution in for 2017, money well spent
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  #9  
Old 12-16-2015, 06:23 PM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight View Post
You didn't mention what brand cylinders are on the engine, or the cylinder finish. My Mattituck built in that era was all ECI components, including Cerminil Cylinders. ECI has a problem with the rings used with Cerminil delaminating, and that produced exactly the symptoms you are seeing. The Cerminil is tricky to hone, because it is so hard, and many shops wouldn't touch them. I was unaware of the ring issue and when I called ECI I told them what was going on, and asked about how to hone and re-ring the cylinders, thinking they were just glazed. I essentially got no help at all, except that they could recondition the cylinders for a price not much less than what a new Lycoming Nitrided stud assembly would cost from A.E.R.O. - so I bought four new jugs and put these on the shelf.

I later talked with an ECI VP (this was a few years ago) at SnF, and was told that they certainly would have taken care of me because they knew about the ring issues - I had to thank him for nothing, because by then, I'd already been flying with the Lycoming cylinders.

Bottom line - if you have Cerminil, you might call ECI directly and see if they will help you out.
"It's easy to be generous when it don't cost you nothin." Archie Bunker

Paul, just a curiosity, did you find out what type of rings the are? Plasma faced, or chrome plated? I was it both the oil and compression rings?
Either will stick and basically gall but plasma will go to higher temps before softening.
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  #10  
Old 12-16-2015, 06:32 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
"It's easy to be generous when it don't cost you nothin." Archie Bunker

Paul, just a curiosity, did you find out what type of rings the are? Plasma faced, or chrome plated? I was it both the oil and compression rings?
Either will stick and basically gall but plasma will go to higher temps before softening.
I believe it was the plasma-coated rings, and they were delaminating - a bad process or batch. ECI figured it out, but didn't have a way to get the word out other than blasting it to all forums and publications (which they didn't try - and admittedly, that is tough), so it was folks finding out when they had a problem. They put it on their web site - but didn't have a way to notify owners to check that. That is, admittedly, one of the problems we face (with our manufacturer friends) in the experimental world. There is no AD process, so word doesn't get out easily.

Paul
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RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
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