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Is it possible...

n6233u

Active Member
To have the build quality of an RV7a be unairworthy? I have been talking with someone trying to sell an RV7a. He is claiming that "7's were prepunched so the quality of the finished product is far more consistent".

I wish the plane was closer so I can look at it in person, but from the pics it looks very rough and I wonder about the flying characteristics. It has a few issues and I would need to fly it home. Anyone know more about an aircraft in Oregon - N2887A ?

IMG952170.jpg
 
Sure, it's possible. But it's also possible to build a really ugly plane that is perfectly safe and flies great. You should have seen the ragged old Luscombe that taught me to fly. :)

There are lots of RV builders in the NW. Have you tried to find someone who's close & is willing to go see and fly the plane with the seller? You can tell a lot (not everything; but a lot) with a flashlight and a mirror. If the rivets look well formed, with just some cosmetic issues like 'smileys' here and there, and if flies well, it might be worth pursuing and having someone familiar with RV annual inspections take a closer look.
 
This really scared me, I'd hate to have the canopy blow off when you need it most. I am new to the Van's family, just looking to buy a project to finish, but wondered if this plane needed more than starting from scratch.

IMG952160.jpg
 
First, it is VERY possible for an RV to be unairworthy for a million reasons. I think of three categories of issues that could come up:
Airframe issues- these are design issues and usually covered by service bulletins, such as the elevator spar cracks, and cracks in the rear spar at the aileron attach bolts that have developed on some rv?s.

Systems issues- most experimental accidents seem related to these kinds of issues because the systems are what keep your propeller turning. Think of fuel starvation due to clogged lines, etc. Electrical problems would fall here too. I think the lack of manufacturer guidance leads to a wide array of levels of quality and correctness when it comes to these systems. Many of these issues show up early on and even on first flights, so they may not be as big an issue on an older plane. On a plane with many years/hours, maintenance of the systems will be the thing to look for.

Build quality issues- this third category is probably the one you should be wary of with this plane. It looks really rough! It isn?t always true that looks tell the whole story. There are great paint jobs out there covering up bad riveting jobs. Yet it?s usually true that sloppiness in one area indicates a builders motivation/ work ethic that might expand to others. Loose bolts in the control system, counterbalance weights coming loose, cracks from inadequately prepared surfaces, and other issues like these are very real causes of accidents.

No one can look at one fuzzy picture and tell whether a plane is airworthy, but I wouldn?t get into this one (or the one I?m building now for that matter) without a looooooooong inspection with someone very familiar with RV?s.
 
The registration expired in April. The owner's not even keeping that up. Move on.
John Siebold

I also appears that the airworthiness was issued in error. Looks like the airworthiness certificate was issued under "Kit Built", 21.191(h). It should be under "Amateur-Built", 21.191(g).
 
Yes, have someone who is qualified to look at it closely. I've inspected quite a few "prepunched" ones that were pretty bad, including one RV-10 that was basically scrap.

Vic
 
Speak with Danny Stark at Twin Oaks aircraft maintenance, Hillsboro OR.
Not Bob Stark, Danny.

He has looked over this plane.
 
What made the RV010 so bad?

The riveting overall was horrible. It could have been used as an example of every type of mis-set rivet, over drilled holes, missed holes, etc.

We walked away from it, but about 2 months later I received a call from a first-time builder who did not get a prebuy. I felt really bad for him. He did get a second opinion, which agreed with mine. Personally, I thought it was criminal of the seller to sell it to him, it was that bad.

Vic
 
The riveting overall was horrible. It could have been used as an example of every type of mis-set rivet, over drilled holes, missed holes, etc.

We walked away from it, but about 2 months later I received a call from a first-time builder who did not get a prebuy. I felt really bad for him. He did get a second opinion, which agreed with mine. Personally, I thought it was criminal of the seller to sell it to him, it was that bad.

Vic
It's impressive to build an airplane without learning any craftsmanship. It's amazing the sins a builder can hide.
 
I saw the plane Vic was referring to. It was as bad as he described. Perhaps one in ten rivets were acceptable, and that's being generous.

Dave
 
It's impressive to build an airplane without learning any craftsmanship. It's amazing the sins a builder can hide.

Tell me about it. After building for a while and learning what quality is an is not, I'm sometimes amazed at the hack jobs sometimes seen on rental planes done by certified shops. I've seen fix-up riveting that would make any RVer scream.

I was told by an old timer that if you ever feel bad about your RV rivet quality, just look at a Cennna ... pretty true; not that pretty sometimes, even for new birds.
 
Is that entire plane skimmed with Bondo? What is going on on the side between the canopy and the wing that is cracked and lifting?
Wow.
But the prop and spinner doesn?t look bad!

Move on, plenty of better planes out there.

And, there is a local quick build that is just horrible, so that doesn?t ensure quality either. (Not the factory work, just EVERYTHING else)
 
Based on one close up of one area, the canopy, I would stay well clear of this one. It is delaminating and that is a structural issue. If the canopy flies off in flight, I don?t think it would be recoverable, even if it didn?t decapitate you.

If the obvious places have obvious non airworthy structural problems, who knows what lurks beneath?
 
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