VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.

  #1  
Old 09-21-2011, 07:30 PM
mbick7077 mbick7077 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Loveland CO
Posts: 14
Default flight testing mel question

Just past the DAR inspection on my 9A. Have a test pilot lined up to complete the first flight. He suggested that he could complete my 5 hours of flight instruction (insurance required) flying time in my 9A. This way I would used to flying my 9A with the dynon 100 and 120. The insurance is questioning this? As per (10) During the flight testing phase, no person may be carried in this aircarft during flight unless that person is essential to the purpose of flight. It appears that my flight instructor would be an essential to the purpose of flight? Thanks Mel colorado RV 9a
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-21-2011, 08:24 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,421
Default Unfortunately......

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbick7077 View Post
It appears that my flight instructor would be an essential to the purpose of flight? Thanks Mel colorado RV 9a
The "purpose" of all flights during phase I is flight testing the aircraft. Therefore, flight instruction cannot be the "purpose of the flight."
I know some people will agree with your theory. But this is discussed every year at our DAR seminars and it is simply not acceptable.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-21-2011, 08:45 PM
AX-O's Avatar
AX-O AX-O is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: West Coast
Posts: 2,571
Default

I know you want to fly your new plane and it has been a long time coming but.... Do it right. Take your time, go to transition training, learn how to fly an airplane that has been proven, meet all your insurance requirements then fly your plane. Last thing you want to do is potentially give the insurance company an excuse not to pay you if something goes wrong or worst yet hurt yourself or your plane because you got in a hurry. You are already thinking and weighing your options by obtaining a test pilot. A few more mitigating steps will go a long way. Good luck.
__________________
Axel
RV-4 fastback thread and Pics
Instagram @ LetMeFlyIt
VAF 2022 paid VAF 704
The information that I post is just that; information and my own personal experiences. You need to weigh out the pros and cons and make up your own mind/decisions. The pictures posted may not show the final stage or configuration. Build at your own risk. Further more, these are my opinions and not those of Van's Aircraft.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-21-2011, 11:07 PM
jclark jclark is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 904
Default What Mel said ... PLUS ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
The "purpose" of all flights during phase I is flight testing the aircraft. Therefore, flight instruction cannot be the "purpose of the flight."
I know some people will agree with your theory. But this is discussed every year at our DAR seminars and it is simply not acceptable.
Your question was directed to Mel, but I, like others have done test flying of friends' airplanes. Below are some thoughts that fortunately, I did not have to share with them explicitly.

1. Test flying is NOT a time for distractions .... you would be a distraction.
2. Training in an UNTESTED plane is NOT the place for training... you would be in one.
3. UNTESTED planes with pilots-to-be undergoing training are most likely NOT insured ... that may not matter to you, but you would be under said conditions.
4. If you ignored all of this and went ahead anyway and got caught, it would most likely make things just a bit more burdensome for all the rest of us, so PLEASE do NOT do that. The rules that are in place give us a lot of leeway. We do not need to stretch them as if we do, they may snap back and overly constrain us all.

It seems that you have stayed safe and wise all this time. Another month or so to do it RIGHT "won't kill you".

When is has been thoroughly tested, you will have a plane that you will be able to comfortably enjoy whether you are just in the pattern getting some training or taking cross country with a good friend.
__________________
James E. Clark
Columbia, SC
EAA Board Member
RV6, RV8 Flying
RV6A Hoping to get back to finishing soon
APRS
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-21-2011, 11:29 PM
arffguy arffguy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 422
Default MEL versus MEL

I thought he was asking about a Minimum Equipment List. Threw me off. Ha!
__________________
Mike F
RV-6A wings/fuselage
RV-3 empennage (extra thanks to Mr. Zilik)
RV-4 Plans only S/N 2938
Cessna 152
Elk Grove, CA
VAF #744 Exempt but paid anyway
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-22-2011, 02:37 AM
RV6_flyer's Avatar
RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NC25
Posts: 3,896
Default

As everyone else has said, flight training during Phase I Flight Testing is NOT allowed.

I do recommend the EAA Flight Advisor Program and Transition Training.

Here is what the EAA says about Flight Training in Experimental/Amateur Built aircraft.
The link in the article say:
First, the aircraft in question must have already completed it’s flight test phase (called “phase one operations”). Phase one is usually either the first 25 or 40 hours of operation, depending on what engine/prop combination is installed. During phase one operations, only the pilot can be in the aircraft, so no dual flight instruction could take place in the aircraft during this time.




I know of an AB aircraft that had the builder in the aircraft for instruction by the test pilot during phase I flight testing. They crashed the airplane on the airport. They both had minor injuries. The airport manager now NO LONGER ALLOWS Homebuilt aircraft to be flight tested out of that airport.
__________________
Gary A. Sobek
NC25 RV-6
Flying
3,500+ hours
Where is N157GS
Building RV-8 S/N: 80012

To most people, the sky is the limit.
To those who love aviation, the sky is home.

Last edited by RV6_flyer : 09-22-2011 at 02:41 AM. Reason: added additional note
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-22-2011, 07:12 PM
mbick7077 mbick7077 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Loveland CO
Posts: 14
Default thanks

thank you for all of the input Will look for a transition CFI in my area Colorado
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-23-2011, 09:01 PM
jimbower jimbower is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 162
Default

I was in exactly the same situation as you are now. Many factors influenced my decision to get propertransition training with Mike Seager. Not giving the insurance company an excuse to avoid paying in the event of an accident was a big factor. I don't regret one minute of the time I spent with Mike. I came back and flew my RV, and it felt like a comfortable old shoe.

Jim Bower
St. Louis
-6A N143DJ...flying at last
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:27 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.