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RV-3 Ferry - information please

Cloud Basher

I'm New Here
Hi guys and girls. Looks like I will get to ferry an RV-3 across Australia from East Coast to west. Right in the middle of summer...

I have a couple of questions if anyone has some experience and may be able to answer them for me please:

1. How large is the cockpit to store things like a full bottle of water, and empty bottle (for obvious reasons!) and a few snacks? I haven’t seen an RV-3 in the flesh, but have a heap of time in RV-4 (and some in a 6 and 7). How does it compare cockpit room size to the -4?

2. I have seen pics on the net of the baggage compartment, looks about the same size as a -4?

3. Likely going to get a few cheap window shades to stick to the canopy above my head. Any better ideas?

4. How is the ventilation?

5. Any handy hints for a 2000nm trip in this aircraft (I have done long trips before, but not in a single seater).

Trip will be day VFR only, no autopilot. Plan due to our 35-42 degree Celsius days will be to go as high as the weather allows to keep cool.

Cheers
CB
 
Hi CB, I used to own an RV-3B (O-320-150hp) and flew it about 500 hours. Now I have an RV-4 (O-320-160hp). I'm afraid I don't know the details on how different the -3 and -3B are but I'll tell you what I know.

The -3B cockpit is smaller than the -4, narrower. I'm a wide guy and I had room for drinks and snacks in the -3. That should not be a problem. If you get creative and have space to put a narrow cardboard box between your legs (down near the rudder pedals), you can store lots of stuff but it is difficult to reach while flying. Tying strings on the items in the box helps with the retrieval.

Yes, the baggage space is fairly roomy. I don't think it is quite as large as the -4 (from memory). Seems like the rear-most shelf area is 'extra' in the -4.

In the -4, I can pull one leg up (put one foot on the shelf) and kind of twist myself into some slightly different seating positions to break the monotony of very long flights. Not so with the -3B.

Ventilation is entirely dependent on what vents the builder installed and the fit of the canopy. Mine had only a NACA inlet in the canopy frame and was just 'bearable' on hot days. One of the slick little air doors that Vans sells located down near your feet makes a world of difference.

Cross country performance between my -3B and -4 are very similar. Three hour legs are about all I'm comfortable with (standard fuel capacity, 30 gal vs 32 gal). Flight characteristics are nearly identical. IMO, the -4 has very slightly heavier controls and a slightly slower roll rate. Of course, I'm not a flight test engineer so that's just my uneducated "feel."
 
I put 500 hours on my -3 and Yeller Daisy has summed it up quite well. Very narrow in there, and I'm a small guy. You'll need everything necessary for each leg of the flight already positioned and available. I used a belly pouch sometimes and a "soft" water bottle like a camelback works really well. You can shove it in any available space regardless of size. Can do the same for a pee bottle I imagine but I never tried that and voiding in the cockpit of a -3 seems like it would be quite a trick. I always found the baggage hold to be more than adequate for one person's stuff. Never an issue and I made some long trips _with_ camping gear. I did have a bit of an empty fwd cg though. Yes, you're in a bubble for a long time so plan accordingly to try to escape the sun as much as possible. And finally, my -3 had a lot of ambient noise - mostly slipstream noise but also exhaust so bring something to protect your hearing and lessen the fatigue. Have fun!!
 
Think I would get up to 10,000 feet or so to get the temperature down. Wear a hat and sun screen, long sleeve shirt, running shorts. I can't imagine taking a pee in a RV-3 successfully. I have a RV-3 with only 24 gallon tank so I don't have to worry about very long legs. One solution to high ambient noise is earplugs plus headset if you don't have ANR.
 
I did a "static testing" of urinating in a Gatorade bottle in my -4 in preparation for a long cross country flight. I'm glad I tried it at home first. Needless to say, there was more outside the bottle than in it!

I found planning my legs to two hours and sipping water when needed helped immensely. Wearing a utility vest w/plenty of pockets helps keep snacks and essential items accessible.

Good luck on the trip!
 
CB,
Go to a home health supply store (if you have them down under) and buy a condom catheter ... and leg bag as well. Works great on long flights with no mess. Practice at home just in case..YMMV...... Mike
RV3B N931M
 
Ditto all above

If it wont fit in pockets and vest, there is no where (safe from going astray) to lay stuff down. Cell phones, sun glasses and pens all end up in bad places.

You can build some clever stowage but that's no help on ferry flight. Take serious consideration of 2hr ( no coffee/water) flight plan. If you must fly farther, a catheter and leg bag will reduce anxiety/improve judgement. FWIW, I used to manufacture them.
 
Perhaps take a page from the glider pilots and dry suit scuba divers and look into a "texas catheter" setup. Basically it is a condom like device with a fitting on the end for a hose that goes to a collection bag (or simply overboard if set up for that) for urine. I would caution you to give the system a few tries before going live to get it all figured out.
 
I routinely use our RV-3B for long trips, and try to make legs of over three hours by flying high and LOP. Yes, it is cramped, but I guess I have spent a lifetime learning how to manage small spaces for maximum performance. I can easily tuck a water bottle along side my torso on each side, and yes, a vest is a great place to keep snacks - LI like granola bars and gory. The truth is, you’re burning very few calories, so you don’t need to replace many.

I have extensive training in the use of piddle packs I guess - on a long, boring flight with the autopilot flying, I just do it carefully, and don’t spill a drop. An alternative is to use what we used to wear in pressure suits - a diaper. If I am up high and have a tailwind, I hate to drop down for a potty stop, and I prefer a piddle pack.

We have a center console in ours which really makes two tunnels for legs - but I can still pull legs back one at a time and put my feet on the spar for a change of position.

I guess it is what you’re used to - I find the RV-3B great for long trips when its just me, a couple of days worth of clothes, and a pack with computers and camera.

YMMV

Paul
 
I can not comment on the effective space you have in the RV-3 cockpit to move, but I have experience of long flights in narrow glider cockpits. The only thing that works for me without spilling a drop (beneath a diaper), is a urinal condome with an urinal bag.
 
It's interesting to read these comments and techniques for doing long hauls in a cramped RV-3.

Just for comparison, on the opposite end of the spectrum for cockpit space is the T-28... coming up at the end of December I'll be ferrying a T-28F Fennec from Ramona, CA back to Houston; the cockpit is so roomy, it's like a wide open racquetball court! I could run laps in that thing. Plus, it has a relief tube under each seat. Bonus! The downside though is, the tubing is old and we probably won't have time to replace it, so we're better off just calling the pee tubes inop for now. But, since it's a new to us airplane and the fuel burns are an unknown (other than "a lot!"), we'll fly short, 2+ hour legs just in case. Will carry the usual Gatorade bottles as a back up.

And to keep it RV related, in my RV-8, the Gatorade bottle and autopilot is pretty handy for this type operation...
 
>I'll be ferrying a T-28F Fennec from Ramona, CA back to Houston

Might be a bit north of your intended route but avoiding the White River Indian Reservation area East of Phoenix would be a good plan. It didn't work out so well for the guys in the TBM Avenger back in May. (Actually they managed OK but as far as I know the airplane is still missing.) You're probably familiar with the story but if not, PM me and I'll send a link. Better yet, stop by my parachute loft at Ramona and I'll share my copy with you. It's something I'd want to be aware of before making a trip like that in a WWII era plane just coming out of heavy MX.
 
Firstly thank you all for the replies and the information. I have obviously heard of catheters but never condom ones. I know of piddle pack from my time in the services. I will have to investigate the condom catheters.

I do love my coffee in the morning and as much as that might help reduce the likelihood of needing to use a bottle, I could not give it up.

The vest situation is a great idea, and the might just be where I end up for snacks. Certainly will be using long sleeved shirt and either a wide brimmed or ?Arafat? type hat. That combined with the sun shades should do ok.

The problem we have when heading west in Aus is the prevailing wind, as well as at most airfields there is lucky to be amenities. And there are no such thing as FBO?s. You might be lucky to find a soft drink machine in a terminal. Some more forward thinking places do have coffee available...:eek: Thus in a 6-8 hour day I need to be self sufficient for everything bar fuel (generally self service credit card pumps or carnet card pumps at a lot of airfields).

Once again that you all for the advice. Lots of good ideas and some investigating for me to do.

Cheers
CB
 
I avoid controlled airports so that sounds like what I see. I have some light weight camping gear. Tent, bag and pad weight 6 lbs combined. I also carry a light weight cook kit, Wisperlite stove that nests in a titanium cooking pot, spork, etc. I carry Ziplocs with coffee/sugar pre-measured so I can make cowboy coffee in the morning. That and a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter and I can go for a few day with just gas and water, doubles as survival equipment.
 
I flew my -3B coast to coast with camping gear a few years back. There's plenty of room for food and drinks in my opinion - way more than on my road and mountain bikes which I routinely ride continuously for 4+ hours. My food of choice is jerky, coconut water or Gatorade, and almonds. The same food I eat on long hikes or bike tours. For high altitude safety I strapped an O2 bottle to the back of the seat and routed the air line through the small gap between the lower seatback and bulkhead. Good luck and have fun!
 
Might be a bit north of your intended route but avoiding the White River Indian Reservation area East of Phoenix would be a good plan. It didn't work out so well for the guys in the TBM Avenger back in May. (Actually they managed OK but as far as I know the airplane is still missing.) You're probably familiar with the story but if not, PM me and I'll send a link. Better yet, stop by my parachute loft at Ramona and I'll share my copy with you. It's something I'd want to be aware of before making a trip like that in a WWII era plane just coming out of heavy MX.

Oh yeah, I've read the report on that missing TBM several times... it's pretty eye opening. We'll be flying IFR, as in, I Follow Roads along I-10 coming home. Plus, we have 2 newly packed Strong 304 chutes to sit on as well. You took a look at our old Butler chutes and decided they were a wee bit old to get repacked... fingers crossed that we won't need any of that!
 
Sorry to all for the thread drift, but it seems like this thread has run it's course anyway.

>We'll be flying IFR, as in, I Follow Roads

Smart man.


>Plus, we have 2 newly packed Strong 304 chutes

Very nice! Same rigs those guys rode down into the trees. Just don't eat any frogs :p:rolleyes:;)

Have fun! And stay safe.
 
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