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Dilemma

Txflyer

Member
Here's the thing.

I've located an RV-8 that I think I want to buy. But the older gentleman is having health problems and can't fly it the hours needed for phase I or a ferry permit. Well, he said he could maybe, but I doubt it. IT'S A BRAND NEW RV-8! >>> 0 SMOH, 0 TTAF, 0 prop, basic instruments. IO-360 200h.p. It flies, no NAV instruments. It has an airworthiness ticket.

After I go look and fly, and if I buy it which I think I would if it's everything I think it is ....

Two questions: Is there a way to get this plane flying or a temp. ferry to TX in a reasonable amount of time? and if not, will it all fit on a 22' lowboy gooseneck? My buddy said he has wing carriers for his 8 that I can borrow if it will all fit on my trailer. He thinks we can put the tail up on the gooseneck tongue if we have to.



Thanks in advance. And sorry if this is a total jerk noob thread. I own a C-180. Here's my 180. The RV-8 will be my girlfriend #2. :)



:)
 
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Please be a little respectful.

It's not a Total Jerk Noob Thread except the part where you call the builder an "Old Geezer". :eek: Come on , show a little respect for the older gentleman, after all he did build an airplane. :)
 
Perhaps other pilots could do the fly off before you take possession? Perhaps the DAR who signed off could modify the operating restrictions to allow a ferry flight over unpopulated area to a new fly off zone? Can a different DAR modify the operating limitations than the one who originally signed off?
 
If it truly is 0 TT, then it must be flown for 25 hours or 40 hours of Phase 1 before carrying a passenger. You say it flies, but that can only mean it has flown, so it must be >0 TT. Technically, the Phase 1 must be flown in the prescribed geographical test flit area. I have heard of cases where a corridor has been given beyond the normal test flight radius, but not a very long one. The complication may be that if you don't finish phase 1 in the location in the operating limitations, you will need new operating limitations and a new airworthiness certificate to change the area, which would be required for a "corridor" or if you trailer it. If you don't have the time to do Phase 1 in its current location, they may allow a shorter phase 1A (my term) in the original area, then a ferry flight, then the balance of phase 1 in your area, which would require new Op Lims and AW Cert.

Oh, and the plane will never be certified, but it is already certificated. No Nav instruments are required for flight.

As far as fitting, I can fit an RV-10 in a 30' gooseneck trailer, but it needs to come off the gear. In the same trailer I fit an RV-9A and a powered parachute, the latter of which was using up the last 6-10 feet of the trailer. Depending on the height and width of your trailer, you may need to remove he wheels or the gear legs, but I'd recommend you measure a local -8 and see if it will fit. Oh, and the -9A didn't have an engine mounted.
 
I asked this Very questions just a few weeks ago when mine got its airworthiness. The answer is:

YES! You have to talk with a DAR and he can give you a special permit to ferry the airplane. He may require you to fly a few hours off in the immediate area to ensure there are no problems that arise but then you can get the authorization to ferry it to its new location when it is within the 40 hour test period.

I'm sure Mel or some of the other DAR's will be able to chime in and give us the exact regs.
 
What about insurance for that "first flight". Might want to think about what if?
Best to you.
Dave
 
It's not a Total Jerk Noob Thread except the part where you call the builder an "Old Geezer". :eek: Come on , show a little respect for the older gentleman, after all he did build an airplane. :)


Really? We that thin skinned around here?

People call me an old geezer. It's a colorful Texas figure of speech.;) No disrespect meant.

I'll go back and put 'older gentlemen' for peace's sake. Thanks for the tips guys. I hope it's a good bird and I'm looking forward to owning one, even if I can't build one, or this one does not work out.
 
If it truly is 0 TT, then it must be flown for 25 hours or 40 hours of Phase 1 before carrying a passenger. You say it flies, but that can only mean it has flown, so it must be >0 TT. Technically, the Phase 1 must be flown in the prescribed geographical test flit area. I have heard of cases where a corridor has been given beyond the normal test flight radius, but not a very long one. The complication may be that if you don't finish phase 1 in the location in the operating limitations, you will need new operating limitations and a new airworthiness certificate to change the area, which would be required for a "corridor" or if you trailer it. If you don't have the time to do Phase 1 in its current location, they may allow a shorter phase 1A (my term) in the original area, then a ferry flight, then the balance of phase 1 in your area, which would require new Op Lims and AW Cert.

Oh, and the plane will never be certified, but it is already certificated. No Nav instruments are required for flight.

As far as fitting, I can fit an RV-10 in a 30' gooseneck trailer, but it needs to come off the gear. In the same trailer I fit an RV-9A and a powered parachute, the latter of which was using up the last 6-10 feet of the trailer. Depending on the height and width of your trailer, you may need to remove he wheels or the gear legs, but I'd recommend you measure a local -8 and see if it will fit. Oh, and the -9A didn't have an engine mounted.



Thanks. I think you nailed it. The plane is certificated, not certified... my bad. :eek:

The builder/owner flies it, but phase I is not done like you said. He did say it requires the 40 hours, all of it I think. Bare with me, I'm learning fast here. 15 hours was mentioned by my buddy for a ferry permit, but I'm not familiar with the intricacies of that exactly either. I could fly there and put 15 on it in a few days pretty easy if I'm qualified, but not 25 or 40. If they will allow a split phase I with a ferry like you were talking about, that might work.

It's starting to sound like it's going to have to be trailer loaded and re-certificated here and start from scratch. My trailer is 6' wide, 22' lowboy flatbed. We may do it, because the plane looks cherry, and the price is very right. :eek:
 
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Thanks. I think you nailed it. The plane is certificated, not certified... my bad. :eek:

The builder/owner flies it, but phase I is not done like you said. He did say it requires the 40 hours, all of it I think. Bare with me, I'm learning fast here. 15 hours was mentioned by my buddy for a ferry permit, but I'm not familiar with the intricacies of that exactly either. I could fly there and put 15 on it in a few days pretty easy if I'm qualified, but not 25 or 40. If they will allow a split phase I with a ferry like you were talking about, that might work.

It's starting to sound like it's going to have to be trailer loaded and re-certificated here and start from scratch. My trailer is 6' wide, 22' lowboy flatbed. We may do it, because the plane looks cherry, and the price is very right. :eek:

If the plane is flying legally in Phase One, then all the time flown so far should count. The owner should know with certainty whether 25 or 40 hours were required by the DAR or the FAA inspector that issued the Ops limits and authorized flight.

You should speak with a DAR to make sure everything has been done correctly up to this point.

There shouldn't be a need for a second DAR inspection. Once certificated, it shouldn't need "re-certification."

Something doesn't quite sound right here, either your explanation of the situation, or the owner's explanation may be incorrect.

Check it out thoroughly, please.
 
No, it will be Queen #1; all else will be wanna-be's


I hear you.

I flew an 8 the other day and I think Lucille will get very lonely. When I first saw my 180 all polished up, I felt like that guy in Cool Hand Luke that said.. 'anything look dat good, gotta be named Lucille!' So the name stuck.

Can I say that? That I love and name my planes? Will y'all think I'm more weird than usual? :D
 
If the plane is flying legally in Phase One, then all the time flown so far should count. The owner should know with certainty whether 25 or 40 hours were required by the DAR or the FAA inspector that issued the Ops limits and authorized flight.

You should speak with a DAR to make sure everything has been done correctly up to this point.

There shouldn't be a need for a second DAR inspection. Once certificated, it shouldn't need "re-certification."

Something doesn't quite sound right here, either your explanation of the situation, or the owner's explanation may be incorrect.

Check it out thoroughly, please.


I think the owner is having some health issues because some of the things he said had us shaking our heads.

For instance, he said he originally had retractable gear on this plane but took them off and put the fixed gear on it. :confused: The fuel tanks are outboard in the wings or something to that effect. This guy is all over the place, you know, like sounding maybe a little confused. He said he's built an 8 before. He wants a 14, he's had others.....my second conversation on the phone with him late in the day was strained.

I'll find out what I can, but he's so hard of hearing on the phone, and the information goes in circles and comes out not making a lot of sense. I would like to help the guy out as he helps me out and we both get a good 8 where it belongs. In the SKY! :)

Going by the pictures he sent me, it's cherry. It's basic gauges with 200h.p. and everything new according to him. Maybe a perfect fit for me, because my buddy and I will probably go all Frankenstein on it anyway. We can't leave things alone....
 
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You can fix anything on an airplane, especially if you like fixing and modifying airplanes.

But there could be a legal/paperwork issue that could never be fixed.

Just sayin'................
 
Thanks. I think you nailed it. The plane is certificated, not certified... my bad. :eek:

The builder/owner flies it, but phase I is not done like you said. He did say it requires the 40 hours, all of it I think. Bare with me, I'm learning fast here. 15 hours was mentioned by my buddy for a ferry permit, but I'm not familiar with the intricacies of that exactly either. I could fly there and put 15 on it in a few days pretty easy if I'm qualified, but not 25 or 40. If they will allow a split phase I with a ferry like you were talking about, that might work.

It's starting to sound like it's going to have to be trailer loaded and re-certificated here and start from scratch. My trailer is 6' wide, 22' lowboy flatbed. We may do it, because the plane looks cherry, and the price is very right. :eek:

I just went through this process with 2 RV's that had to return to Phase 1 after an engine change. Since the new Phase 1 was in a different location than the original, I required new Op Lims, because they state the geographical area for Phase 1. Since the Airworthiness Certificate says it is only valid when accompanied with Op Lims dated ###, if you get new Op Lims, you will require a new Cert if you finish Phase 1 in a new geographical area.

But, if 15 hours of phase 1 has already been done, then only 25 would be left since no major alterations/repairs have taken place (disassembly and reassembly isn't a major alteration). If it only needs 30 or fewer hours left in Phase 1, I personally would not take it apart and trailer it. Lots can go wrong when you do that, and the time involved would certainly be much greater than flying the rest of Phase 1 off. As was mentioned, you could even find another local person to help fly the time off.

If you do choose to finish Phase 1 in its current area, then the only paperwork that will be required is a Bill of Sale and a Registration Application, that will have a pink slip to make the plane legal to fly until you get you registration in the mail.

Where is the 8 located?
 
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It's all relative

Nice looking 180!

Geezerhood is more an attitude than a number. You can be one at any age. I even know a few 40-something geezers :)
 
I just went through this process with 2 RV's that had to return to Phase 1 after an engine change. Since the new Phase 1 was in a different location than the original, I required new Op Lims, because they state the geographical area for Phase 1. Since the Airworthiness Certificate says it is only valid when accompanied with Op Lims dated ###, if you get new Op Lims, you will require a new Cert if you finish Phase 1 in a new geographical area.

But, if 15 hours of phase 1 has already been done, then only 25 would be left since no major alterations/repairs have taken place (disassembly and reassembly isn't a major alteration). If it only needs 30 or fewer hours left in Phase 1, I personally would not take it apart and trailer it. Lots can go wrong when you do that, and the time involved would certainly be much greater than flying the rest of Phase 1 off. As was mentioned, you could even find another local person to help fly the time off.

If you do choose to finish Phase 1 in its current area, then the only paperwork that will be required is a Bill of Sale and a Registration Application, that will have a pink slip to make the plane legal to fly until you get you registration in the mail.

Where is the 8 located?


Thanks for that information. I'm going to call the owner again today and see if I can't make more sense out of it.

I'd rather not say where it is just yet because I don't want anyone running in underneath me. I've probably spilled the beans too much already. But I'm stumped on how to procure this one.





Nice looking 180!

Geezerhood is more an attitude than a number. You can be one at any age. I even know a few 40-something geezers :)


I guess some people (not you) don't miss the chance to scold a noob no matter how silly it is....

people.... :rolleyes:
 
Geezer speak

Really? We that thin skinned around here?

People call me an old geezer. It's a colorful Texas figure of speech.;) No disrespect meant.

I'll go back and put 'older gentlemen' for peace's sake. Thanks for the tips guys. I hope it's a good bird and I'm looking forward to owning one, even if I can't build one, or this one does not work out.

I guess I'm a little sensitive cause I'm getting too darn close to that Geezer zone myself. :eek: But after hearing that comment of his about removing the retractable gear I'm thinking your had it right all along cause that's definitely Geezer talk.
 
I asked this Very questions just a few weeks ago when mine got its airworthiness. The answer is:
YES! You have to talk with a DAR and he can give you a special permit to ferry the airplane. He may require you to fly a few hours off in the immediate area to ensure there are no problems that arise but then you can get the authorization to ferry it to its new location when it is within the 40 hour test period.
I'm sure Mel or some of the other DAR's will be able to chime in and give us the exact regs.

Things like this can and do happen, but it's not at all simple. First to get approval to fly to a new phase I location, that must be approved by all FSDOs involved, from the old location to the new one. It's not likely to be approved if there are more than 2 FSDOs involved. Even with 2, it's pretty rare.
Your best bet will be to "truck" the aircraft to the new location and get the operating limitations amended for the new flight test area.
If you like, give me a call and we can discuss. 972-784-7544
 
Things like this can and do happen, but it's not at all simple. First to get approval to fly to a new phase I location, that must be approved by all FSDOs involved, from the old location to the new one. It's not likely to be approved if there are more than 2 FSDOs involved. Even with 2, it's pretty rare.
Your best bet will be to "truck" the aircraft to the new location and get the operating limitations amended for the new flight test area.
If you like, give me a call and we can discuss. 972-784-7544


Thanks Mel. After speaking, and talking about it here with flygirl, we've about decided this one may be a cherry with a worm in it.

There's going to have to be a lot more info trade hands, or I'm going to have to walk away and look at others.

This may be a cherry deal for someone in the MO area who can fly the hours off, but I don't have the time nor want to spend the $. :eek: Thanks for your help everyone... I know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. Planes pick pilots I think just as much as pilots pick planes and owners pick buyers and vice versa. .... ;):)
 
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