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Undecided about smoking

Darren S

Well Known Member
I would like to add a smoke system to my -7. Seems like the smoking airplanes 3.5 gallon, double nozzle setup is best. What I don't know is where to get cheap smoke oil and what type is best. I live up in Calgary, Canada.

Someone quoted something like $10 a gallon. A 3.5 G tank at $35 per which lasts for 5 minutes is a little $$. Any other ideas out there? Or is this just the way it is.

Darren
 
As Bill says, none are cheap... However, there are 2 controls to limit the $$ - the on/off button, and the flow valve. Have a think why you really want it, and do you really need the full flow rate?

That said, the full rate can give impressive results:

23.jpg


Diesel works, but it needs higher flow rate to get same smoke effect, and your aircraft may well stink of it for a long time after :eek: The good smoke oils are essentially "baby oil", and smell/feel pleasant ;)

Andy & Ellie Hill
RV-8 G-HILZ
RV8tors
 
Good point about why I really want the smoke...I was just looking for some fun while doing aerobatics. I'm going to check on Monday where I can get oil locally. Still undecided and gathering info..
 
As Bill says, none are cheap... However, there are 2 controls to limit the $$ - the on/off button, and the flow valve. Have a think why you really want it, and do you really need the full flow rate?

That said, the full rate can give impressive results:

23.jpg


Diesel works, but it needs higher flow rate to get same smoke effect, and your aircraft may well stink of it for a long time after :eek: The good smoke oils are essentially "baby oil", and smell/feel pleasant ;)

Andy & Ellie Hill
RV-8 G-HILZ
RV8tors

Nice Picture
 
Darren,

John at Smoking Airplanes may be able to get you a deal on barrels. I think it was about $7/gallon last time I talked to him. Still pricey, and northland delivery may be pricey too.

I've checked with some local petroleum distributors to see if there are any local deals, but no scores yet. You might take the spec sheets from the SA website and show them to the local distributors to see what they might be able to come up with.

I've been told that some of the types of oil are concrete form release oil, so if ya know a tilt-up building contractor, you may be able to get in on a volume buy.

I've used diesel, and it works, and as Andy said, it does smell a bit, and hang time is not as long as the good stuff.

If all else fails, hang out at local airshows, and offer to help them clean up a bit, and if they need that open container of smoke oil disposed of, well you'll have just the place for them to unload it! ;) (Done it!)

It's expensive by the minute, but its not an everyday thing...and its worth it! :D

And Andy, that is an AWESOME picture!

Cheers,
Bob
 
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Well, if you need a reason for SAFETY to have it....

... if the tower says they don't have you in sight, flip the switch for a couple of seconds. There! A justification for smoke, because of SAFETY.
 
One more

... if the tower says they don't have you in sight, flip the switch for a couple of seconds. There! A justification for smoke, because of SAFETY.

It's always good to able to pull the trigger and not have to pick up brass or dead bodies.
 
STAY AWAY FROm DIESEL! Thats a ticking bomb and a nasty in flight fire accident waiting to happen! I cant believe someone actually posted this!

Cheapest way to go is concrete form oil. It.s been in used for ever! I see lots of rv,ers use used transmition oil but i am against its use. Too poluting. I personally like to use a brand that contains paraphin wax but it is expensive.

1 galon a minute is the best economic setup. Less than that, save your money since it will look weak. I have a 7 gallons system on mine and it gets used in 5 minutes. It leaves a nice thick smoke trail just like in the pictures posted.
 
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What system

Hey Andy,

Which smoke system are you running?

As Bill says, none are cheap... However, there are 2 controls to limit the $$ - the on/off button, and the flow valve. Have a think why you really want it, and do you really need the full flow rate?

That said, the full rate can give impressive results:

23.jpg


Diesel works, but it needs higher flow rate to get same smoke effect, and your aircraft may well stink of it for a long time after :eek: The good smoke oils are essentially "baby oil", and smell/feel pleasant ;)

Andy & Ellie Hill
RV-8 G-HILZ
RV8tors
 
Hey Andy,

Which smoke system are you running?
Both aircraft using SA-100 systems with twin injectors. Set up for ~2L/0.5USG / min.

Cheapest way to go is concrete form oil ... 1 galon a minute is the best economic setup... I have a 7 gallons system on mine and it gets used in 5 minutes
I don't know anything about 'concrete form oil ', but if that flow rate is required, it is over double what we use, and we would be unable to do a display as we currently do (would run out of smoke oil). We use "standard smoke oil" - types similar to Ondina - 2L/min is approx max which will burn (as per SA instructions, put any more in and you just get a baby oil covered tailwheel :) )

Andy & Ellie Hill
RV-8 G-HILZ
RV8tors
 
Andy,

I'm running a Smoking Airplanes SA-100 with two injectors as well. I've talked about flow rate settings and smoke oil with John (of SA, great guy!) on my visits to Rosamond.

From the discussions with John, he recommended I start by opening the valve 1 to 2 turns (he leaned towards 2). I found that two turns smokes like crazy, but consumes oil pretty fast. 1 turn was a tad light, so I've settled on about 1.5 turns...good smoke, not too fast a flow rate. Not sure what the GPM is at the setting, but I also recall John saying the nominal flow rate is about 0.8 GPM (of course that varies with the turns of the knob!)

So how many turns do you have the valve open to get smoke like that seen in the picture above? If that smoke in the pic is at 0.5 GPM, I'd say that you have a great working system! Very nice!

As for form oil, I've seen many references to Corvus Oil (aka Canopus 13) being the same stuff. Researching it a bit showed a lot of forum discussion references to that, but I have't seen an official MSDS that calls Canopus 13 concrete form release oil. Paraphin-based mineral oil is another term I've seen used for various smoke oils.

There are several threads here and elsewhere discussing various oils for smoke systems...here's a couple from the VAF archives (prices are dated, to be sure!):

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=44669
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=25538

Appears the search for an economical smoke oil is one of those grail-esque missions (I'm always looking too!) Looking at some sites with barrel prices north of $900 USD was a bit painful tonight. If anyone knows of screamin' deals, lets share...will do if I find one! :)

Cheers,
Bob
 
From the discussions with John, he recommended I start by opening the valve 1 to 2 turns (he leaned towards 2)
I'd agree... I display with mine at 1.75-2, the other RV slightly more, to get the same smoke. The difference is somewhere in the system - voltage / pump / piping / exhaust back pressure (?) / injector hole size? Perfectly good to practice at half that rate or less (1 turn?).

If that smoke in the pic is at 0.5 GPM, I'd say that you have a great working system! Very nice!
I did not pick a random picture ;) For some reason, the angle of the picture, the light, the smoke appears almost 'Space Shuttle' like. More pics available at RV8tors Gallery, or Google/YouTube RV8tors.

Talk to the display guys about what/where they use for oil. Price is only part of it - you need to see how much smoke you get by flow rate, and also consider density v the smoke valve setting v temperature etc. I wouldn't epect to find a "great deal" - it's a commodity. We pay just over $500/55gal + Taxes - but everything over here is more expensive :eek:

Andy & Ellie Hill
RV-8 G-HILZ
RV8tors
 
Smoke Oil

For the guys living in areas where cotton is grown (southern USA) cotton picker spendle oil works OK. Most of the oil distributers stock it for their farm customers. Expect to pay around $400.00 for a 55 gal drum.

Gerald
 
Hey Darren,

If you decide you want to try concrete form release oil, I can probably help you with sourcing some.
 
Appears the search for an economical smoke oil is one of those grail-esque missions (I'm always looking too!) Looking at some sites with barrel prices north of $900 USD was a bit painful tonight. If anyone knows of screamin' deals, lets share...will do if I find one! :)

Cheers,
Bob


Bob,
We're you able to try the concrete form oil ? Or come across a suitable cost effective replacement?

I am thinking of adding a smoke system, not sure why, but probably filling the need for more toys.:D:D
 
My dad made one for his Pitts, old freon can,and bought the line, nozzles etc way cheaper than buying one, also heard of guys using wesson oil, u may smell like a french fry after
 
If all else fails, hang out at local airshows, and offer to help them clean up a bit, and if they need that open container of smoke oil disposed of, well you'll have just the place for them to unload it! ;) (Done it!)

It's expensive by the minute, but its not an everyday thing...and its worth it! :D

And Andy, that is an AWESOME picture!

Cheers,
Bob

This is true. During the summer of 2010, we had an airshow here in Alaska at Elmendorf. There was a wing walking couple that came up that had a smoker in their act. A buddy of mine helped them out one day with cleaning and loading up. They gave him a barrel and a half of smoke oil! It would probably cost a fortune to have it shipped back out of Alaska. I never realized that it was that expensive. He was talking about it a couple of weeks ago since it's still in his shed. I should offer to buy it off of him for like $20 or something! :D
 
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