What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

What's your oxygen saturation?

Bryan Wood

Bryan Wood

Well Known Member
Pulse Oxymeters for under $33

I was looking for on oxymeter for a relative who has had probems breathing in recent months and stumbled accross this one. I'm posting it in the Test/Misc because the item is on sale and this is not worthy of being in the archives. Even if you don't have O2 in your plane knowing your actual saturation levels while flying your RV seems like a no brainer for only $33. Go here to order yours.
 
Just ordered one, thanks for the heads up. I've been wanting to expand my cruise altitude upwards and this was one piece of the solution.

I'll try to give a report back on my impressions.

Grant
 
I've been wanting to expand my cruise altitude upwards and this was one piece of the solution.
Click to expand...

Grant,

I am curious as to how you will use the pulse oximeter.

At what altitude will you put it on and what reading do you expect? At what reading will you decide there is a problem and you need to come down.


How will you know it is functioning correctly and calibrated properly?


Is there a table or graph that gives appropriate O2 sats for given altitudes?

Is there a set number that says safe and belowthat number it is unsafe?

Intuitively it sounds like a neat and useful device to have but I am not sure operationally how it should be used.
 
Question for those that have a pulse ox.........

Normal O2 sats are considered 95-98% on room air. As we all know, ability to process oxygen depends on several factors such as health, exercise tolerance, smoking, altitude you live, etc....

I would like to know the altitude where you live and your O2 saturation at that altitude and then the altitude you hit 90% saturation.
 
Webb,

I live at 5000 ft. My oximeter typically reads 92-93% sitting in the house. I don't smoke and have no other health issues that would lower my saturation. I've been told by a couple medical people that it is likely that the meter is off by a few percent (apparently this is not particularly unusual). So on the assumption that 92% is really 95%, I typically hit a true 90% (reading 87%) around 11-13000 ft. My wife, starting at the same level, gets to true 90% at around 9000 ft (no health issues for her either). My medical friends tell me that typically women will drop faster than men because of the amount of hemoglobin in their blood (hematocrit reading) is typically in the 35% +/- 5% range whereas men have 40% +/- 5%, so men's oxygen-carrying capacity is greater than that of women, on average. I know that my wife's hematocrit is closer on 30% (haven't ever looked at mine that I recall), which probably explains why she hits the ceiling considerably earlier than me.

greg
 
I'm just home from Yellowstone and used Oxygen going there at 11.5K MSL. I typically am 90-92% saturated to 10.5K MSL and use O2 to keep me above 90% when flying 11.5K or higher. I always use O2 flying at night coming home from any trip regardless of altitude.

I do ride a mountain bike in the desert hills behind Rosamond everyday (7-9 miles) during the week and 20 miles on either Sat or Sun to keep my 50-year-old heart healthy :) Rosie

PS: Here's a link to some affordable Pulse Oximeters.
 
Last edited:
Rosie said:
I'm just home from Yellowstone and used Oxygen going there at 11.5K MSL. I typically am 90-92% saturated to 10K MSL and use O2 to keep me above 90% when flying 11.5K or higher. I always use O2 flying at night coming home from any trip regardless of altitude.

I do ride a mountain bike in the desert hills behind Rosamond everyday (7-9 miles) during the week and 20 miles on either Sat or Sun to keep my 50-year-old heart healthy :) Rosie
Click to expand...

We were up there last weekend, and flew part of the trip at 11,500 also. We didn't use oxygen this time, but you can sure feel it when you get home; as we get tired easily. We're at 4600' msl to start with; and that get's me somewhat more use to higher altitudes. However, thanks to this thread, I'll check into oxygen saturation..............as I haven't the slightest idea.

P.S. -- I met you at SLC Airport #2 back in 2001, when you landed to re-fuel. You had just won an award at a fly-in at Heber City 36U (Russ McDonald field). So -- Hi again...:) edit: this part is for Rosie, in case there is any confusion.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
Last edited:
8500 feet

The house is at 8500 msl and sitting I have no problem with 96% and a heart rate of 57. Been here more than 20 years so the old blood is used to it. I can maintain over 90% at 13500 but my hear rate goes to 110 to do this. I wear O2 at any alt above 9500 feet it there for any length of time
 
Got some great info by PMs in response to the questions above. Those that sent them should post those responses in the "Whats your O2 sat thread which is where I am going to merge(Pulse Oximeters for $33) this thread.

How to use the pulse oximeter is just as important as having one.
 
Last edited:
Below are a couple of PMs I recieved in response to my original query. I thought they were too good not to share.

RVadmirer
user_offline.gif

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 343


icon1.gif
An O2 Article I use for Reference
A Common Denominator
The situation inside your body is complex, but the solution is simple. A blood saturation of 91 percent is the critical number. When you reach this point, the oxygen tension of your blood is at 60 torr. This is when we consider the individual hypoxemic in general medicine. Some pilots and writers claim that 88 percent is a better number, but remember that cardiac output is also a factor. A saturation of 91 percent provides sufficient oxygen without extra stress to the heart.

The reason 91 percent is so critical is that the relationship between torr and O2 saturation in your bloods is a sigmoid curve. As torr decreases, O2 saturation decreases slowly from its maximum down to 91 percent. Past this point, even a slight decrease in torr means a precipitous drop in blood saturation. What this means to you is you could be doing fine from sea level to 9000 feet and then suddenly be in a bad situation only 2000 feet higher.

Our studies show that 91 percent can occur as low at 5,000 feet in a 65-year-old physician and can be over 11,000 feet for a 21-year-old college rower. Most adults with no significant underlying medical problems hit 91 percent between 8,000 and 10,000 feet — not the 12,500 feet dictated by the FAA

(The rest of the article: http://www.ifr-magazine.com/oxygen-and-hypoxemia.html)
Click to expand...

Webb
user_offline.gif

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Jackson, MS
Posts: 1,079


icon1.gif
I'm not Grant but....
As far as the pulse ox, I was wondering some of the same questions. Accuracy listed is +/- 2% which I suspect is close enough for the average healthy person.

Personally I would use the number to determine if I need to increase my O2 flow rate at altitude. I generally just adjust O2 until I'm comfortable since I make most long distance trips in the mid teens for my altitutude.

The main reason I'm interested is my &&&&& has asthma and when I get to 9,000, she feels a bit short of breath and just turning on a 1/2 liter does the trick for her. I would really like to get a handle on where she truly is.

As far as a chart, I think I'll make one up. Good info to know for traveling even if you don't have a pulse ox with you. I would be interested to know at what altitude you break 95% and what altitude you bust 90%.

Take care,
Webb
__________________
Webb Willmott
Jackson, MS
RV7A - "Sting"
N32WW
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I would use low-cost blood oximeters for relative measurements only. They're probably good, but I'd want to establish a baseline on the ground and then use it in the air to make sure you're getting enough oxygen.

TODR
 
Bryan
I order 7 of the oximeters for me and my friends. The company sent me an email confirming the order and debitted my Credit card and a few days later credited my Credit card. Visa took $20.00 from me for the conversion of nothing. I email the company and asked for an explanation but they have chosen not to respond.
 
pulseO2 accuracy affected by altitude?

I bought a mid-priced O2 meter and played with it a while. I'm a very active road cyclist, although I don't race.
I found at sea level I had 99% all the time, I could wear it on the bike, and go to my anaerobic limit and it would maybe read 98%.

I'm an avid backpacker and glider pilot and I spend lots of time at altitude, and I find I aclimate very fast.

So, I took it backpacking with me in the Sierras. Just sitting around camp at 11k ft, I was showing 87%! If I got up and walked around, it would go up to 88%, and if I was climbing hard, maybe 91%. Even though I felt fine.

Then, I took the O2 meter with me up in my glider. At 11K ft, no supplimental O2, it read 86% while I was just sitting there in my glider. Then, I turned my O2 on, and it went up to maybe 88%.

If these readings were right, I would surely be seriously hypoxic.
All the while, in both circumstances, I felt fine. I've had a chamber ride and training - I know what hypoxia is like, and I didn't have it. good color in my finger nails, good peripheral vision, good color vision, good alertness.

My conclusion is that the O2 meter itself is affected by atmospheric pressure and was reading erroneously at altitude. I was intending to make a vacuum chamber to stick my finger in and test that idea, but the battery died in the O2 meter, and I threw it away!

Anyone else have similar exerience?
 
Webb said:
Question for those that have a pulse ox.........

Normal O2 sats are considered 95-98% on room air. As we all know, ability to process oxygen depends on several factors such as health, exercise tolerance, smoking, altitude you live, etc....

I would like to know the altitude where you live and your O2 saturation at that altitude and then the altitude you hit 90% saturation.
Click to expand...

I live at 800', am 44 years old, a non-smoker, and get a reasonable (though never enough) amount of exercise. My Saturations drop below 90 if I stay above 11-12k feet for over 30 minutes or at 14k for more than a few minutes.
 
Webb,

I live at 5,000', 52 yrs old, average regular exerciser, and when my son had a tracheostomy (since all healed up), we bought a pulse ox to monitor him (we learned a lot about O2 sats during that time!). Did some self-checking during his recovery, and I ran 95-98% most of the time on the ground.

Of note, I checked our portable against hospital monitors when my son was getting the trach out (and I was spending the night with him), and it was dead on every time (not claiming perfection, but not bad for a $69 model with a +/- 2% claim!) That pulse ox now does duty in the plane, and I've made several trips with it (and I do consider it a relative measure, but it's a pretty good overall indicator).

I find that on O2 in the 11-15K range, I can stay at 94-95%, with HR in the 70s or low 80s (depending on how high...or how bumpy ;)), and sometimes in the hi 60s (resting HR is hi 50s). On one trip (at 12.5K) I ran out of O2 approaching home field, and watched the sats drop to the high eighties, so I descended early, and am convinced of the value of supp O2. On another trip, I went to 17.5K, with a DALT of over 19K, and the O2 couldn't keep me in the 90s (sat), so I'm thinking the limit of 18K for the low P O2 system I have is pretty accurate. And that experience also reinforces that it's DALT that matters, rather than MSL altitude (hi DA has the same effect on us as it does on our motors!)

Just some thoughts for ya...how's this all jive with your experience in medicine (aren't you a Respiratory Therapist? Learned a lot about what you do during Matty's recovery too! You guys are worth your weight...!! :))

Cheers,
Bob
 
Need an Oximeter

Today only, Woot has a sale on an oximeter of $65 includes shipping.
A real good deal on what can be an expensive little booger.
5 years ago I paid $450 for mine.
I paid $75 to repair it once.:eek:

I can not attest to this particular ones quality. But it normally sells on the web today $110 plus shipping.
Here is a nice full description.
Ill have it in a week and try to remember to report back.
Best,
 
Last edited:
In typical woot fashion. Its its gone for another product today.
You got to be fast with Woot. They move product on and off at lightning speed.
History
 
Last edited:
Oximeter

I just purchase 2 units. $99.00 each. Here is the link http://www.aerox.com/parts.html
Just recieved them and they both read the same so at least calibrated to each other. I purchased my O2 systems from Aerox and they seemed to have it together but I am real new at this.
 
Another inexpensive oximeter source

My wife is a nurse.
She saw one of her workmates using a pocket oximeter and asked about it.

Similar to the posting that started this thread, the unit is under 40 bucks. My wife did a comparison test against the high dollar units supplied by the hospital. A-OK.

The unit is an MD300-CP from Southeastern Medical Supply.

http://www.semedicalsupply.com/

I ordered one so that she could use it for work and also to start getting a baseline for the both of us before we start flying the RV on OX.
 
I've had one for a while now. It's essential. My Aerox O2 system has individual meters and valves and I use the oxymeter to control the flow, keeping my blood O2 level above 90%.

It's interesting to compare the onset of hypoxia to the values the oxymeter shows. Just from that alone, I think the calibration is right on.

One thing worth mentioning is that if you leave the batteries in the unit between flights, they'll rapidly run down. It pulses a beam every second or two to check to see if there's a finger in the unit and that kills the battery in a few days.
 
David Paule said:
I've had one for a while now. It's essential. My Aerox O2 system has individual meters and valves and I use the oxymeter to control the flow, keeping my blood O2 level above 90%.

It's interesting to compare the onset of hypoxia to the values the oxymeter shows. Just from that alone, I think the calibration is right on.

One thing worth mentioning is that if you leave the batteries in the unit between flights, they'll rapidly run down. It pulses a beam every second or two to check to see if there's a finger in the unit and that kills the battery in a few days.
Click to expand...

Good tip David.
 
is there a doctor in the house?

...maybe the experts have already commented, but I have 2 questions....

1. is it 'safe' to say that if your o2 saturation drops below 90%, you should be on supplemental oxygen, regardless of altitude? ( this would encompass those of us with reduced lung function due to allergy, smoking, etc.)

2. since the discount units advertise the same accuracy as the $300 ones ( +- 2%) is there any benefit to paying more than $33 ????
 
flyboy1963 said:
...maybe the experts have already commented, but I have 2 questions....

1. is it 'safe' to say that if your o2 saturation drops below 90%, you should be on supplemental oxygen, regardless of altitude? ( this would encompass those of us with reduced lung function due to allergy, smoking, etc.)

2. since the discount units advertise the same accuracy as the $300 ones ( +- 2%) is there any benefit to paying more than $33 ????
Click to expand...


1: keep Oxygen saturation or SaO2 at 92 or above. Much below 90% and the oxygen carrying of hemoglobin falls off precipitously and physiologic function follows. SaO2 of 80% is far far worse than 90%. Basically 90% should be adequate but 92% gives you some margin for error and you'll feel better too after the flight.
http://www.rnceus.com/oxydiscrv.gif shows how PaO2 falls dramatically when SaO2 approaches 90%. PaO2 is what matters, it's how much oxygen is really in the blood to drive diffusion into the cells. SaO2 is just more easily measured without drawing arterial blood.

Bottom line, find a cheap source of oxygen so you'll use it liberally. I just ordered a tank and plan to use it anytime I'm above 8000 feet which is where I can start seeing significant desaturation.

2: I have no idea, my $35 oxymeter seems to work okay but is a little erratic. Don't know if my SaO2 changes that much or if it's sensitive to vibration, or just too cheap. I'm going to borrow an expensive oxymeter from the hospital and do a side by side comparison. Because SaO2 CAN change dramatically when around 88-92, I wouldn't be too surprised if the readings I'm getting at 10-12k feet are varying as much as I see.
I will say that when I feel mildly hypoxic, the oxymeter is agreeing, so no false negative readings which is good.
 
...exercise and O2 saturation...?

Rosie said:
I'm just home from Yellowstone and used Oxygen going there at 11.5K MSL. I typically am 90-92% saturated to 10.5K MSL and use O2 to keep me above 90% when flying 11.5K or higher. I always use O2 flying at night coming home from any trip regardless of altitude.

I do ride a mountain bike in the desert hills behind Rosamond everyday (7-9 miles) during the week and 20 miles on either Sat or Sun to keep my 50-year-old heart healthy :) Rosie

PS: Here's a link to some affordable Pulse Oximeters.
Click to expand...

I (years ago) had the world record for 10k, and was a member of the US Olympic Track and Field team... I currently ride my bike 100-200 mi. a week too, Paul.. imagine my suprise when a doctor told me that this had little bearing on my ability to saturate my blood with O2...! I don't understand it, but I'm no doctor.....
 
flyboy1963 said:
...maybe the experts have already commented, but I have 2 questions....

1. is it 'safe' to say that if your o2 saturation drops below 90%, you should be on supplemental oxygen, regardless of altitude? ( this would encompass those of us with reduced lung function due to allergy, smoking, etc.)

2. since the discount units advertise the same accuracy as the $300 ones ( +- 2%) is there any benefit to paying more than $33 ????
Click to expand...

Yes, I paid way more than $33 (cheap ones were not available then) but my unit has an auto shut-off feature. The battery lasts for years.
 
My $35 unit shuts off after just a few minutes and runs on AAA batteries which are cheap and easy to find. I just changed the batteries for the first time in 2 years but I don't use it that often either. I keep it velcroed to the tunnel in easy reach.

As long as the battery isn't an expensive specialty battery it probably isn't much of a concern???

Do you guys monitor continuously or just do spot checks once in awhile. Only reason I can think of to use continuously in flight is as a warning to O2 system failure or depletion. If I was really high where time of useful consciousness was short I'd run continuous I guess. Below 18000 I'd just use it to titrate O2 flow to a happy SaO2 value and then just spot check every 30 minutes when I change tanks and do my 30 minute flight scan/reassessments.
 
grantcarruthers said:
Bottom line, find a cheap source of oxygen so you'll use it liberally.
Click to expand...

Out here, a portable oxygen bottle is filled for less money than one installed in an airplane. The cost per fill is the same regardless of the size of the bottle, so it pays to have a large bottle that's portable.

Dave
 
see my post #14 on altitude error of pulse-Ox meter

Anyone else have a similar experience to what I mentioned in post #14?

If my particular meter, or brand, was bad, and its not a general trend, then I may consider buying a new one.

I became pretty convinced its indications at altitude were meaningless when I turned the O2 on in my glider and my SaO2 only went from 86 to 88.
Its also pretty strange to be out hiking in the mountains, feeling great, and the stupid meter says 86.

Just curious if anyone else has had a meter that seemed to be affected by altitude.
 
cheap pulseOxs

Altitude should have no effect on the function of the pulse ox. Take it with you to your doctors office and compare it to theirs. if it's close there it should be good. Some pulse ox trivia is they are fooled by carbon monoxide, so don't expect the sat reading to go down if you're being poisoned by an exhaust leak.
 
This is pretty good O2 sat info, just one problem for me. Apparently I need a portable bottle on my saddle & one on my backpack frame. It also means I should be on ox when I go up to cut firewood. Can't I just put out my cigarette and chew some coca leaves instead? I guess I'm really asking how high altitude people have adapted. Do they live on lower sat levels or does their cardio system compensate & keep them in the nineties? How do it work?
 
I manage 300 pulse oximeters in the US Air Force. Our units cost $700 each. Not because they are gold plated but because they are made for extreme environments. Uneffected by pulling G's, poor blood flow from cold fingers etc. I doubt your sensor is as accurate and ill tell you my guidance.

An O2 saturation of 90% equates roughly to 10,000 ft for someone acclimated to sealevel. Regardless of FAR oxygen requirements, you are O2 defiecient above 10,000 ft and have degrade performance even below this. Just because you dont feel hypoxic doesnt mean your not missing radio calls, missing traffic and far more fatigued than you should be. Keep your O2 sat above 90%. If your acclimated to high altitude 90% may occurr a little higher than 10K. Someone living at 6K will normally get 2-4% benefit in O2 sat.

I just briefed a four star general today about the risk of relying on a pilot degraded by hypoxia to sense his state of hypoxia.
 
Someone living at 6K will normally get 2-4% benefit in O2 sat.
Click to expand...
So, someone living in Leadville has acclimated to the point where their resting sats are over 90? Is this done through higher pulse, respiration, BP, or some combination?
 
aerhed said:
So, someone living in Leadville has acclimated to the point where their resting sats are over 90? Is this done through higher pulse, respiration, BP, or some combination?
Click to expand...

Aerhed,

People living in Leadville do have somewhat higher pulse and respiratory rates, but the primary mechanism is an increase in the number of red blood cells. This turns out to be a mixed blessing though, as it causes thicker blood(think heavy weight oil). Many Leadville residents eventually develop pulmonary hypertension after years of pumping thickened blood, and by middle age may have to move to lower elevations.

Peruvians and Nepalis living at even higher elevations do all of the above, but also appear to have developed over generations certain biochemical adaptations.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
All true

I was at an indian air force base in the himalayas on the pakistan border. Air base at 25,000 ft (long runway). We brought a pulse ox. At 18,000 our sherpa driving the jeep had an O2 sat of 97. We were weezing in the 80s, taking medication called diamox to assist. They clearly had generational adaptations. The indian AF folks i talked to complained of learning dissabilities for their children brought as accompied family members to the nearby town of Leigh.

Lesson i guess is that you might be acclimatized to high altitude and able to fly higher than 10k while keeping your O2 sat above 90. Or you might be pushing 50 or older and weezing at ground level. In iether case your compromizing safety with an O2 sat below 90.
 
billnaz said:
Altitude should have no effect on the function of the pulse ox. Take it with you to your doctors office and compare it to theirs. if it's close there it should be good. Some pulse ox trivia is they are fooled by carbon monoxide, so don't expect the sat reading to go down if you're being poisoned by an exhaust leak.
Click to expand...

Good idea, however there are reasons to do this test at altitude IF you have the opportunity. Because the oxyhemoglobin dissociation curve is somewhat linear up around 97-100%, comparing readings at this end of the scale could be misleading and give false confidence in the cheapo unit. The changes in SaO2 are both more critical and dramatic around the 90% SaO2 area on the scale. This is where I want to compare the cheapo unit performance to something medical grade.

At 12k recently, I popped on the cheapo unit, 84%. Felt okay but if I really thought about it might be able to point to a few symptoms of mild hypoxia. Stayed at that altitude as I was only going to be there 30 minutes and it was a CAVU day so little challenge or deep thought needed. Did some deep breathing, pursed lip breathing, and some extreme tidal volume holds. Could get SaO2 into the 90-96% range but saw pretty significant swings back to the 80's, back to the 90's etc. The question is, is the cheap unit not quality enough to read well in this "critical" range or is the SaO2 just that volatile because of the non-linear nature of the oxyhemoglobin dissociation curve. This is why I'd prefer to do a side by side at altitude and really challenge the unit in the environment it will need to perform in.
 
N15JB said:
Aerhed,

People living in Leadville do have somewhat higher pulse and respiratory rates, but the primary mechanism is an increase in the number of red blood cells. This turns out to be a mixed blessing though, as it causes thicker blood(think heavy weight oil). Many Leadville residents eventually develop pulmonary hypertension after years of pumping thickened blood, and by middle age may have to move to lower elevations.



Jim Berry
RV-10
Click to expand...

Does the increased hemoglobin in any way increase O2 saturation? Does the increase, affect, either neg or pos, the ability to function at higher alt?
 
scsmith said:
Anyone else have a similar experience to what I mentioned in post #14?

If my particular meter, or brand, was bad, and its not a general trend, then I may consider buying a new one.

I became pretty convinced its indications at altitude were meaningless when I turned the O2 on in my glider and my SaO2 only went from 86 to 88.
Its also pretty strange to be out hiking in the mountains, feeling great, and the stupid meter says 86.

Just curious if anyone else has had a meter that seemed to be affected by altitude.
Click to expand...

Steve,

Its possible your meter was suspect. I noted you pitched it, and are considering another. I've had mine show a rise from 88 to 96 after going on O2. Given your fitness level and hi altitude activities, I would think you'd see the same or better. You're welcome to test mine next time you come up here to soar or climb. I'll look for the brand when I'm out at the hangar, but it was a low-mid priced unit from the net ($69). Good tool, IMHO.

Cheers,
Bob

Question for Jim Berry: Do the same effects/side effects seen in our Leadvillian friends occur in those of us living at, oh, say 4500' MSL? Just wunderin', as I stare out the window at the mountains! ;)
 
prporter said:
Does the increased hemoglobin in any way increase O2 saturation? Does the increase, affect, either neg or pos, the ability to function at higher alt?
Click to expand...

The increased number of red blood cells and corresponding increase in hemoglobin does increase O2 saturation. That does translate to better performance at altitude. Athletes have capitalized on this by training at higher elevations. People living at Denver elevations have hemoglobin and hematocrit levels about 6% higher than those living at sea level. Leadvillians have levels higher yet.

Several posters have commented that they have flown at 10-15,000 ft. and did not feel impaired. The fact that you did not feel it doesn't mean you were not impaired. Early hypoxia symptoms are very subtle. Most people who take altitude chamber flights are very surprised at the deterioration in their hand writing, math and verbal skills. Most of us who feel we are superhuman(immune to hypoxia) are deluding ourselves.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
rvmills said:
Steve,


Question for Jim Berry: Do the same effects/side effects seen in our Leadvillian friends occur in those of us living at, oh, say 4500' MSL? Just wunderin', as I stare out the window at the mountains! ;)
Click to expand...

Bob,

Not sure which effects you are referring to, but an increase in red blood cells and hemoglobin does occur at 4500 ft. An increased risk of pulmonary hypertension does not become clinically significant until approximately 8'000 ASL.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
N15JB said:
The increased number of red blood cells and corresponding increase in hemoglobin does increase O2 saturation. That does translate to better performance at altitude. Athletes have capitalized on this by training at higher elevations. People living at Denver elevations have hemoglobin and hematocrit levels about 6% higher than those living at sea level. Leadvillians have levels higher yet.

Several posters have commented that they have flown at 10-15,000 ft. and did not feel impaired. The fact that you did not feel it doesn't mean you were not impaired. Early hypoxia symptoms are very subtle. Most people who take altitude chamber flights are very surprised at the deterioration in their hand writing, math and verbal skills. Most of us who feel we are superhuman(immune to hypoxia) are deluding ourselves.

Jim Berry
RV-10
Click to expand...

When I was competing, I was training at 7500ft., so I can attest to that. Hey Rosie, hope you are reading this- we may be ahead of the curve a bit with all of our cycling after all...!
 
Last edited:
N15JB said:
Bob,

Not sure which effects you are referring to, but an increase in red blood cells and hemoglobin does occur at 4500 ft. An increased risk of pulmonary hypertension does not become clinically significant until approximately 8'000 ASL.

Jim Berry
RV-10
Click to expand...

Jim,

Thanks, you hit on the one side-effect I was talking about. Some history of hypertension in my family of sea level dwellers, and now I'm in Reno. Sounds like I may be in the middle ground where there is some benefit to living at higher elevations, but little of the downside (thicker blood and hypertension risk factors).

So to take that thought line a little farther (hopefully without sounding paranoind :p) as an airline pilot that sees 8,000 cabin altitude for several hours on about half the days of each month (call it 80 hours/mo), plus 10-15 hours/mo up in the same range in an RV, is there an additive factor to that adaptive reaction of generating more red blood cells and thicker blood (living at 4,500 feet plus flying a lot)?

Like I said, really just interested in the phisiology more than worried. I figure staying fit, eating right, etc., is the best way to combat hypertension.

And I concur with your comments on feeling un-impaired at altitude. As many know, one of the first signs of hypoxia can be euphoria. Its not for me, but I've learned to trust the numbers more than how I feel, and do think pulse-ox is well worth the investment!

Thanks, and cheers!
Bob
 
Having lived in Leadville for a number of years, I recall lifelong residents going to the hospital every so often and having a procedure to remove some of the red blood cells from their system to keep the blood from thickening up too much. I worked at between 11,500 and 13,000 feet and certainly could tell the physiological difference living at LXV compared to friends I had who were living on the Front Range (at 5000 ft). During my training, we never used oxygen even though we routinely flew between 10 and 14000 feet. I certainly would not do that now, being older and living at lower elevation.

cheers,
greg
 
rvmills said:
Jim,

Thanks, you hit on the one side-effect I was talking about. Some history of hypertension in my family of sea level dwellers, and now I'm in Reno. Sounds like I may be in the middle ground where there is some benefit to living at higher elevations, but little of the downside (thicker blood and hypertension risk factors).

So to take that thought line a little farther (hopefully without sounding paranoind :p) as an airline pilot that sees 8,000 cabin altitude for several hours on about half the days of each month (call it 80 hours/mo), plus 10-15 hours/mo up in the same range in an RV, is there an additive factor to that adaptive reaction of generating more red blood cells and thicker blood (living at 4,500 feet plus flying a lot)?

Like I said, really just interested in the phisiology more than worried. I figure staying fit, eating right, etc., is the best way to combat hypertension.

And I concur with your comments on feeling un-impaired at altitude. As many know, one of the first signs of hypoxia can be euphoria. Its not for me, but I've learned to trust the numbers more than how I feel, and do think pulse-ox is well worth the investment!

Thanks, and cheers!
Bob
Click to expand...

Bob,

Keep in mind that essential hypertension (what most of us mean when we refer to hypertension or high blood pressure) and pulmonary hypertension are 2 entirely different animals. While you need to be watchful because of your family history of hypertension, it has almost nothing to do with your risk of developing pulmonary hypertension.

Re living at 4500 ft. and flying at 8000 ft. - our bodies make or destroy red blood cells(RBCs) anytime we change elevation/altitude. It takes our blood about 8 weeks to fully adapt to a new elevation(for instance, moving from Detroit to Denver), so while you are flying you will be making more RBCs and when you return to earth you will break down RBCs. Even with your 80 hours of flying/month. you spend approx. 88% of your time at 4500 ft. While you might have more RBCs than your non-flying neighbor, the difference would be too small to measure.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
Jim,

I wondered about that (PH versus EH), and just Googled it. Roger all, and thanks for the explanation. Makes good sense. Interesting physiology lesson!

So, in looking at your profile, are you a retired medical practitioner, or did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :D I appreciate the insight...thanks again!

Also interesting to hear Greg's comments about Leadvillian RBC removal...who'd a thunk!

Cheers,
Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top