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How Fast are RVs Compared to Others

B

Bob Axsom

Well Known Member
I have taken the top speed of each class from the first four years of SARL cross country air racing, put them in an Excel file, sorted them by speed and copied below.

Bob Axsom



Race Date Class Aircraft Type Pilot Speed Kts Speed MPH
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 Turbine Legend Abbott, Marty 348.54 401.09
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/27/08 Unlimited Lancair IV Tackabury, Paul 302.84 348.51
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/27/08 Sport Lancair Legacy Behel, Lee 291.02 334.90
Grace Flight 2008 10/5/08 Twin 1-T Merlin III Goforth, Philip 285.96 329.08
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/27/08 RG-T Blue Polen Special II Keyt, Dick 272.22 313.26
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/27/08 Sport FX Questair Venture Crawford, Tony 256.27 294.91
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/27/08 FX Blue Glasair I TD Hammer, Bruce 230.37 265.11
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 RG Blue Lancair 360 Henney, Larry 229.36 263.99
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/27/08 Sprint Vari-EZE Savier, Klaus 224.64 258.51
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/27/08 RV Blue RV-8 Huft, John 217.17 249.91
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 RV Gold RV-4 Anders, Dave 209.06 240.58
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 RG Red Lancair 320 Schulze, Craig 199.6 229.69
Pagosa Springs 2010 9/26/10 FX Red Wittman Tailwind W-10 Hamilton, Red 198.47 228.24
Pagosa Springs 100 2009 9/27/09 FAC2RG-T Mooney M20M Peck, Jack 192.95 221.9
Pagosa Springs 100 2009 9/27/09 Twin 2 Baron B-55 Crafton, John 191.91 220.69
Texoma 100 4/25/10 FAC1RG Bonanza V35 Burgdorf, Dale 190.88 219.52
West Texas 100 2009 4/12/09 Twin 1 Aerostar Hardage, Tim 188.48 216.9
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 FAC1RG-T Mooney Acclaim Rydzewski, Patrick 187.27 215.55
AirVenture Cup 2008 7/27/08 RV Red RV-4 Murphy, Chris 186.01 214.06
Sulphur Springs 130 7/18/10 FAC1FX-T Columbia 400 Lay, Rob 184.49 212.3
AirCap 200 8/24/08 FAC1FX Cessna 350 Bergqvist, Pia 181.77 209.17
Texoma 100, 2008 4/20/08 FAC2RG Bonanza N35 Huff, Jim 180.29 207.51
Texoma 100 2009 5/31/09 FAC5 Grumman AA1A Plazack, Gene 165.55 190.51
Sulphur Springs 130 7/18/10 FAC3FX Cirrus SR20 Porter, James 160.54 184.74
Texoma 100 2009 5/31/09 FAC3RG Mooney M20J Mutlu, Ali 159.32 183.34
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 Sportsman Sonerai I Lange, Jeff 159.07 183.06
Grace Flight 2008 10/5/08 FAC4FX Grumman AA5B Morse, Stu 157.85 181.65
Grace Flight 2008 10/5/08 FAC4RG Mooney M20C Punzi, Henry 157.57 181.33
Great NW Air Race 6/13/10 Biplane Blue Pitts S1S Bach, Scott 154.16 177.41
Grace Flight 2010 10/2/10 FAC3RG-T Mooney 231 Pohly, Mark 150.38 173.04
Texoma 100 4/25/10 FAC6 Diamond DA-20 Massimo/Edmon 128.82 148.14
 
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Average race speeds

Here's another way to slice the onion; I took Bob's spreadsheet and worked out average race speeds for all aircraft types that had at least 5 races. The idea is to reduce the effects of differing wind conditions on the results. It should be noted however that there is a lot of variance being averaged here. I wouldn't take the numbers too literally but they make for some interesting comparisons.

Some general observations:

1. There seems to be no real difference in average speeds between the nosewheel vs. tailwheel side-by-side airplanes.

2. The RV-8 seems to be ~10 mph faster than the side-by-sides. Some of the RV-8s were running with 200 hp, but actually the fastest in this category had 180 hp. There seem to be more 180 hp than 200 hp entries.

3. The RV-8 Gold category seems to be 10-15 mph faster still. This includes the IO-390's plus John Huft (who according to his website has 223 hp, and has done a lot of airframe work).

4. Not surprisingly the 6-cylinder RVs/Rockets are faster than the 4-cylinder RVs.

5. The only factory ships that kept up with the RVs were the Bonanzas.




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Jollies per dollar?

I wonder how that chart looks if you divide the speed by the estimated purchase price? Or, better yet, estimated hourly cost (amortizing acquisition/build cost over 2000 hours). Then you'd have an interesting "jollies per dollar" metric.
 
Hey Alan,

Nice work with the data...makes for a good comparison table.

I haven't gone into the spreadsheets to play with Bob's data yet, but I'm wondering if the F1s can be broken out from the HRIIs (I'm assuming that they are currently lumped together). My guess is that if you broke out F1 EVOs, F1 Sport Wings and HRIIs, they would fall in that order...and my S-6 would fall in just behind the F1 Sport Wings. I'd like to see more HRIIs come out to race, to see if that theory holds water...heck, more S-6s and S-8s would be fun to have in the mix too!!

Great data on RVs of all types...heck, lets see more of all RVs out there!! :D

Thanks to Bob for the data, and to you for the presentation!

Cheers,
Bob
 
That is a fine piece of work Alan

It is really good to see you take this raw collected data to a higher level. That should get a lot of attention.

223 hp - WOW - I'm still processing the possibilities.

Bob Axsom
 
I would like to see the data divided by horsepower. That would be a simple indication on aero efficiency of the different types of aircraft.

More data that would be interesting (but imposible to get) is to compare these numbers to the factory claimed numbers for each type of aircraft as well as what the average builders aircraft speed numbers are. Comparing these to the numbers you have would show the amount of effort these people have gone through to get increase performance.

(give an engineer a little data and we will always ask for more more)
 
rvmills said:
H
I haven't gone into the spreadsheets to play with Bob's data yet, but I'm wondering if the F1s can be broken out from the HRIIs (I'm assuming that they are currently lumped together). My guess is that if you broke out F1 EVOs, F1 Sport Wings and HRIIs, they would fall in that order...and my S-6 would fall in just behind the F1 Sport Wings.
Click to expand...

Bob - The EVOs do appear to be faster than the sport wings, based on the chart and on actual race results (maybe this could be labeled better?). Tom Martin has skewed these data a bit by being so fast however...

There are only 4 data points for the HRIIs so I didn't include them on the chart, but their average was about 221 mph.

The Super-6 bar in the chart is all you; looks like you're neck and neck with the F1 Sport Wings! I think this agrees with the actual race results pretty well.
 
Nice job Bob!
One type not represented is the 9A. Two 9As were entered in Tom Martin's excellent Great Canadian Air Rally. Both 9As had identical specs (160hp, FP props). The times turned were within about 1% of each other at 182 and 184 mph. Not bad speeds for side-by-side comfy cruisers. Both pilots were racing newbies and may have done a bit better but for some less than optimal turns.
Greg Wilkinson
 
plehrke said:
I would like to see the data divided by horsepower. That would be a simple indication on aero efficiency of the different types of aircraft.

More data that would be interesting (but imposible to get) is to compare these numbers to the factory claimed numbers for each type of aircraft as well as what the average builders aircraft speed numbers are. Comparing these to the numbers you have would show the amount of effort these people have gone through to get increase performance.

(give an engineer a little data and we will always ask for more more)
Click to expand...

Good questions. The horsepower part is approximated by the categories, but I'm not sure its possible to do better without more information than is reported on the spreadsheet (there's a lot of variation among the O-360s for example).

Comparison to the factory numbers is complicated by the fact that most of these races are timed off the departure end of the runway, some involve climbs, turns, etc. Also, a few of the entries may not have had been using full power. You can tell the serious racers because their throttle levers are slightly bent from being pushed forward ;)

The actual race results are maybe a better indicator of airframe improvements? For example Bob Axsom has climbed significantly in the results due to his many modifications.
 
plehrke said:
I would like to see the data divided by horsepower. That would be a simple indication on aero efficiency of the different types of aircraft.

More data that would be interesting (but imposible to get) is to compare these numbers to the factory claimed numbers for each type of aircraft as well as what the average builders aircraft speed numbers are. Comparing these to the numbers you have would show the amount of effort these people have gone through to get increase performance.

(give an engineer a little data and we will always ask for more more)
Click to expand...

If you want to see a real figure of merit for a plane based on its speed and HP, divide the speed by the cube-root of the sea-level HP. For instance, if you get 200 mph on 180 HP, the figure of merit would be 200 x 180^-.333=35.42, or take the RV-8 Blue at 213 mph and 200 HP which would give 36.42. A really efficient plane will be in the 40s! For instance the VariEZ at 222 mph (probably Klaus') and, say 120HP, would be an outstanding 45.0!

I assume these are numbers from the SARL races which are conducted most times at altitudes below 4000'. If we use Jim Smith's 197 mph average of three flights at 4000' dalt on his 150 HP, his FOM would be 37.08, not too shabby!
 
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Alan Carroll said:
...Also, a few of the entries may not have had been using full power.
Click to expand...

Say it ain't so! :eek: Actually F1Boss has been sandbaggin' a bit in Pesky. Wait till he runs with the new scoop he's fabbing this winter for his IO-550 (looks cool too!). First-time racers also sometimes go light to get a feel for racing, but that gets cured pretty fast when the bug bites! ;)

Alan Carroll said:
...You can tell the serious racers because their throttle levers are slightly bent from being pushed forward ;)
Click to expand...

Or their throttle brackets (side-by-sides) are bent towards the firewall! :D (AMHIK)

Alan Carroll said:
...The actual race results are maybe a better indicator of airframe improvements? For example Bob Axsom has climbed significantly in the results due to his many modifications.
Click to expand...

Very true! Bob, John Huft and Tom Martin are great examples. Some newcomers are doing great things too, and more will follow...and hopefully we'll see some more 390's running in RV Gold this year!

Fun stuff...back to my fiberglass work!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Mostly correct but ...

elippse said:
I...
I assume these are numbers from the SARL races which are conducted most times at altitudes below 4000'. If we use Jim Smith's 197 mph average of three flights at 4000' dalt on his 150 HP, his FOM would be 37.08, not too shabby!
Click to expand...

Paul, These are all of the flights in all of the SARL races ever sanctioned including the AVC from the beginning of SARL in 2007. When the AirVenture Cup is flown out of Mitchell SD to Oshkosh (2008 and 2010) the altitudes vary widely from airplane to airplane. 17,500 ft. has been mentioned but not verifiable.

Bob Axsom
 
altitude of 2008 AVC

I ran the 2008 AVC at 11,500 for a good part of the race and at reduced power due to light rain ( wood prop). That resulted in the 214mph speed for the RV-4 red class. I am happy when I can break 200mph in any race.

With more races this year in different parts of the country, I will be curious to see if there are more and different airplanes than the "regulars".

One airplane that is curiously absent from the records is the Swift??

Chris M RACE34
 
Alan Carroll said:
Here's another way to slice the onion; I took Bob's spreadsheet and worked out average race speeds for all aircraft types that had at least 5 races. The idea is to reduce the effects of differing wind conditions on the results. It should be noted however that there is a lot of variance being averaged here. I wouldn't take the numbers too literally but they make for some interesting comparisons.

Some general observations:

1. There seems to be no real difference in average speeds between the nosewheel vs. tailwheel side-by-side airplanes.

2. The RV-8 seems to be ~10 mph faster than the side-by-sides. Some of the RV-8s were running with 200 hp, but actually the fastest in this category had 180 hp. There seem to be more 180 hp than 200 hp entries.

3. The RV-8 Gold category seems to be 10-15 mph faster still. This includes the IO-390's plus John Huft (who according to his website has 223 hp, and has done a lot of airframe work).

4. Not surprisingly the 6-cylinder RVs/Rockets are faster than the 4-cylinder RVs.

5. The only factory ships that kept up with the RVs were the Bonanzas.


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Click to expand...

Was the turbine legend omitted because it did not have five races?
 
I tend to agree, the chart would be much more telling if broken down by engine--------size and HP.
 
Bob Axsom said:
Paul, These are all of the flights in all of the SARL races ever sanctioned including the AVC from the beginning of SARL in 2007. When the AirVenture Cup is flown out of Mitchell SD to Oshkosh (2008 and 2010) the altitudes vary widely from airplane to airplane. 17,500 ft. has been mentioned but not verifiable.

Bob Axsom
Click to expand...

That's very true, Bob, which makes it really difficult to do any kind of comparison without having a correstion factor for density altitude. From what I've read, though, about the altitudes that are flown on these closed courses, the Oshkosh race aside, I would assume that when I said that 4000' would probably be a reasonable comparison value, that would still be in the ballpark.

But in any closed-course race, the planes will never attain their flat out speeds. When doing planning for Reno, I typically use about a 10 mph deficit against straight and level for planes in the 200-250 mph category. But they're having to fly a race-course shaped pattern where the end curves are actually composed of several pylons. The triangular courses in SARL are not as demanding, so I would guess that because of turns, winds, and planning, the SARL deficit would be more in the vicinity of 5 mph.

I really should have used that in calculating Jim's FOM, which would be more like 36.1 instead of 37.1. But since a change in speed with horsepower is proportional to the cube-root of the HP change, using a figure of merit such as speed/HP^1/3 gives a really good look at the overall efficiency of any given plane. It can really show the differences between two planes of the same type and HP.
 
Based on Paul Lipps formulae, speed/HP^1/3, my aircraft has a rating of 40.11 which I guess is pretty good! This calculation is based on an assumed HP of 300 and an average race speed of 268.73 mph for the 2010 race season.
 
prporter said:
Was the turbine legend omitted because it did not have five races?
Click to expand...


Yes. There are a couple of speeds listed in Bob's spreadsheet; Marty Abbot's Garrett-powered Legend had the highest overall speed of any of the races I believe (401 mph).
 
Tom Martin said:
Based on Paul Lipps formulae, speed/HP^1/3, my aircraft has a rating of 40.11 which I guess is pretty good! This calculation is based on an assumed HP of 300 and an average race speed of 268.73 mph for the 2010 race season.
Click to expand...

That is very good, Tom! Congratulations on having such an efficient airframe-engine-propeller combo!
 
speeds

To me it seems that Bobs original post gives more pertinent information. Huft did 249 with the RV8 and Anders did 240 with the RV4. There are no Rockets listed as category winners. Anders in the CAFE performance test devastated the HRII by such a large margin that the numbers will stand for a long time.
The Wittman Tailwind is an interesting study. In 1953 Wittmans original Tailwind with a hot rod 85 hp Continental would outrun a Bonanza which then had 185 hp. Today the W10 Tailwind with 0 320 Lyc will outrun the 285 hp V tail Bonanza. Progress??? Not much on the part of Beechcraft.
 
Some Comments on that

jrs14855 said:
To me it seems that Bobs original post gives more pertinent information. Huft did 249 with the RV8 and Anders did 240 with the RV4. There are no Rockets listed as category winners. Anders in the CAFE performance test devastated the HRII by such a large margin that the numbers will stand for a long time.
The Wittman Tailwind is an interesting study. In 1953 Wittmans original Tailwind with a hot rod 85 hp Continental would outrun a Bonanza which then had 185 hp. Today the W10 Tailwind with 0 320 Lyc will outrun the 285 hp V tail Bonanza. Progress??? Not much on the part of Beechcraft.
Click to expand...

Some personal observations:

John Huft and Dave Anders both ran their planes in the 2010 AirVenture Cup Race from Mitchell SD to Oshkosh. They both ran in the RV Gold Class even though their engine displacement would have (I believe) allowed them to run in the RV Blue class. Here are their Race records:

AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 RV Gold RV-4 Anders, Dave 209.06 240.58
AirVenture Cup 2010 7/26/10 RV Gold RV-8 Huft, John 201.97 232.42

It is the first time they have run in the same race for a while and altitude selection could have played a part in the 8 mph difference.

One thing that has surprised me in the Factory classes is the turnout of Bonanza pilots for the races and how well they perform. There was a factory Mooney Acclaim entry that did well in a race at Texoma a few years ago (~215mph) but that kind of Mooney performance has not been duplicated. I'm not sure why. These races do tend to silence the talkers. Three guys that quietly come out and blow everyone away are Bruce Hammer, Steve Hammer and Russell Sherwood in their Glasairs. This is no accident - just like John Huft and Dave Anders these guys fucus their full attention on performance not so much talking about it.

It really is an interesting thing to be a part of - I like to run as fast as my little legs will carry me and try to grab at the fringes of winning. Luck sometimes plays a part.

Bob Axsom
 
Anders

I don't have ready access to the numbers but I think Anders did better than 240 in some of the Sun races years ago. I have heard that he has reconfigured his airplane some and lost some speed as a result. Also have always wondered how long his engines last.
 
John Huft did 249 with the RV8 and Anders did 240 with the RV4. There are no Rockets listed as category winners. Anders in the CAFE performance test devastated the HRII by such a large margin that the numbers will stand for a long time.
Click to expand...

I must raise my rocket flag and point out that there would be no RVs listed as category winners if they did not have their own classes. Rockets are in the 540 cubic inch fixed gear class and Tony Crawford flew his Questair as Fixed gear aircraft for a couple of years and that is tough competition!

Just for reference sake
AirVenture Cup 2010 F1 EVO Tom Martin 227.27 262.21
AirVenture Cup 2010 RV-4 Anders, Dave 209.06 240.58
AirVenture Cup 2010 RV-8 Huft, John 201.97 232.42
next closest RV RV-8 Ross, Jon 189.01 217.51

Not a scientific CAFE foundation result, but these aircraft ran on the same day in the same conditions.
 
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RV Exclusive Classes

Obviously what you say is true Tom. When they recently created the RV Gold as the third class and John Huft opted for it I thought my day has come. Alas, 4th place in the 2010 AVC RV Blue class and no cigar. I wonder if they might consider a RV-8 class.

To tell you the truth I like the competition and when we race I look at my speed and hope it is a little better than I have ever done before. If there were only one class it would be OK. When the results are posted I always look at the list that shows all of the planes ranked together by speed and almost incidentally look at the list divided by class. You can derive the meaning of that I think.

Bob Mills is working on his RV-Super 6 to catch you Rocket men in direct competition and I almost know you have got something new up your sleeve for the coming season that will keep him back there in his RV place - it's fun to watch ... and be a part of.

Bob Axsom
 
Bob Axsom said:
Obviously what you say is true Tom. When they recently created the RV Gold as the third class and John Huft opted for it I thought my day has come. Alas, 4th place in the 2010 AVC RV Blue class and no cigar. I wonder if they might consider a RV-8 class.

To tell you the truth I like the competition and when we race I look at my speed and hope it is a little better than I have ever done before. If there were only one class it would be OK. When the results are posted I always look at the list that shows all of the planes ranked together by speed and almost incidentally look at the list divided by class. You can derive the meaning of that I think.

Bob Mills is working on his RV-Super 6 to catch you Rocket men in direct competition and I almost know you have got something new up your sleeve for the coming season that will keep him back there in his RV place - it's fun to watch ... and be a part of.

Bob Axsom
Click to expand...

With you all the way Bob.

When RV Gold was being created for 540s and below, SARL Grand Puba Mike called and asked if I would go Gold or stay in Sport FX. I knew Mike wanted the Gold class to attract the 390 ci 2-place RVs and RV-10s, with the added benefit of keeping Blue competetive for 360 ci RVs. I love running with the Rockets, so opted for Sport FX, and the Gold class was designated in a way that keeps 6 cylinder 2-place RVs in Sport FX, and makes for great racing in RV Gold and RV Blue. I know that John and Dave ran in Gold at AVC in that same spirit, and RV Blue had some great competition. I think we'll see even more of that in 2011, and hope some new racers come out in all three RV classes and Sport FX to make it a fun year. Lots of races all over the country this year!

The Rocket bros are great friends, and its fun to see if I can get any of them in races...sometimes it happens. So don't fret on those fast 8's Bob...cunning and guile sometimes has its day! ;)

As for Rocket mods...I know they are all in their shops working away at it...every time I gain a tenth of a knot, they match or beat it...those "Pesky" guys! Why I'm up to my ears in fiberglass dust right now. Anybody have a Q-tip I can borrow? :eek:

All too much fun!! :D

Cheers,
Bob
 
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Is there a way for a rookie RV'r to practice for one of these races? My initial flight testing says I may do ok in the RV Blue, so want to go to Wenatchee to see for myself. But I also have no idea how fast my plane really is. straight and level I've seen 183 KTAS 6500'msl, 24" 2500rpm and still have throttle left.

Also would like to know how to run a course safely, smart and competitively.
 
The best way to run is fly it like any cross country flight

Plan and fly it like any cross country flight. As you repeat the experience you will develop your own thoughts on what is best as far as procedures are concerned. The wind planning is important. If you go to the race in Washington I think you will have a good time with some very good people. Tom Bovee runs that race and I never met a more considerate guy. His planning for the race takes everything into consideration for the safe conduct of the race. It is an excellent race to get your feet wet.

Bob Axsom
 
There are a few ways to practice. If you live close you can run the course before the event; go a day early if you live a long ways away.
Or at home lay out a short version of the course with turns that give you roughly the same angles. Run it different ways, tight turns, wide turns, low high etc, and see what works for you and your plane.
Or, make a steep turn point close to home and practice turning around that point with about a three or four mile entrance and exit. Run different turns to see what works for you. You might find that a really tight turn bleeds too much speed off, whereas a longer low g turn can greatly add to the distance. Timing various styles will give some confidence. If you can download your data see what your turns look like. Practice holding altitude as going up and down just adds distance to the race.
All of these options will give you the confidence needed to run the course on race day. It is a blast and although my technique is getting better I am sure that I will never run the perfect race.
 
hydroguy2 said:
Is there a way for a rookie RV'r to practice for one of these races? My initial flight testing says I may do ok in the RV Blue, so want to go to Wenatchee to see for myself. But I also have no idea how fast my plane really is. straight and level I've seen 183 KTAS 6500'msl, 24" 2500rpm and still have throttle left.

Also would like to know how to run a course safely, smart and competitively.
Click to expand...

In terms of your competitiveness, I think the only way to really find out is to run the race. The great thing about SARL is that getting started is really easy. Racing can be done at the same level of safety you'd expect from a normal cross country. Sure there are guys who run down at the treetops and pull 5G around the turns (you know how you are!;)), but the RVs are generally so well matched that you don't need to frighten the villagers to produce a respectable time. You'll likely find that the experience of preparing for and participating in the race is most of the fun (although winning is also nice).
 
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I don't really have any visions of winning, just don't want to show up and be a big dork. In my short flying career, I haven't even done much XC planning but I plan on working on it. I've logged more time since Dec, then I had in the preceeding 18months.

Where can I get a few race course layouts. I looked at SARL, but couldn't find much.
 
hydroguy2 said:
Where can I get a few race course layouts. I looked at SARL, but couldn't find much.
Click to expand...

They are usually posted in advance of the races; looks like last year's race info is no longer linked and only one 2011 race has the info posted at the moment. More should appear as the time gets closer.
 
Courses, Dorks, etc

hydroguy2 said:
I don't really have any visions of winning, just don't want to show up and be a big dork. In my short flying career, I haven't even done much XC planning but I plan on working on it. I've logged more time since Dec, then I had in the preceeding 18months.

Where can I get a few race course layouts. I looked at SARL, but couldn't find much.
Click to expand...

There is only one race open for entries now and the courses are not available until the associated race is open for entries. You know they are open for entries when the race name in the "Calendar of Events" at www.sportairrace.org is underlined. The race is called the Big Muddy (for the muddy Mississippi River). If you click on the underlined race name you will be linked to a page that has three click options - something like "I'm In", "Whose In?" and "Race Information." The Race Information link will give you the only currently available course. If you print that information you can plan for that race. It is good to get a sectional and layout the course. I get a paper flight plan (Log) and make up a detail flight plan. I usually go to Google Earth, enter the Lat/Long of each turn and download an image. I use PowerPoint software to place a copy of each turn point in the upper left corner of a page for that turn. Then below it I enter the requirements for the turn. The frequency(s), the altitude, the turn call requirements, the outbound heading, outbound target altitude and enroute obstructions, etc. These power point pages are sized so they can be printed an cut to size for a kneeboard. I provided en example of this preparation in a post here last year. If you plan the flight it will go just fine. Your plane appears to be very fast so you will be competitive. Study the winds and fly the altitude that helps you most on every leg (usually not the same for all legs).

The racers are individually started fastest first and slowest last with a 20 to 30 second separation. Once you takeoff you will probably not see another airplane until you land after the race - so you may look like a dork in your own eyes but no body else but the turn monitors will see you. As you can see from the responses the racers are a helpful bunch that want to see you do good.

Bob Axsom
 
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Thanks guys. Looks like I have some work to do before June.

Bob, I recall you posting that info, but couldn't find it in a search. If you have have a sample or two, maybe you could email them to me. [email protected]

I never raced anything...ok dirt bikes against my buddies in the woods...so don't really know the best technique for an aerial closed course. A overhead view of a sectional with the plotted vs actual flown route would be cool to see.

Thanks again....off to the shop to build some fuel drain and vent fairings.;)
 
Will do

I have to do a little computer digging but I should have something from last year that I can send you.

Bob Axsom
 
hydroguy2 said:
I don't really have any visions of winning, just don't want to show up and be a big dork.
Click to expand...

Made me laugh Brian....SARL can't be that bad. When you start in motorcycle roadracing they make you wear a yellow tee shirt over your leathers during your first two race weekends. That's to tell all the other racers you're a new dork and prone to do something dumb at any moment.
 
Sorry Brian, I already fulfilled the dork position when I entered a Memphis race about two years ago.

Good thing is that I was near the back of the pack anyway so a minimal threat.

I ran at far lower than 100% power, let's just say less than 75%...so maybe around 60%...or 50-55% (yea...50-55%).
 
DanH said:
Made me laugh Brian....SARL can't be that bad..........they make you wear a yellow tee shirt ......
Click to expand...

well guess I'm ready, since my plane is already yellow.

And I guess I could sandbag like Ron and run at LOP cruise power out for a sunday ride.
 
hydroguy2 said:
I don't really have any visions of winning, just don't want to show up and be a big dork. In my short flying career, I haven't even done much XC planning but I plan on working on it.
Click to expand...

Brian,

I thought the same exact thing when I started racing two seasons ago. Very nervous about buffonerizing in my first race.

I'll tell ya now, it (dorkdom) was never even a factor (AFAIK! :rolleyes:). The SARL gang is extremely welcoming, very friendly and helpful, and everyone is out to have a fun and safe race (and wants to help each other do the same). You need a part, someone will probably have it, and will help you put it on.

That first race for me was in Pagosa, and once we started, the juices were flowing, I could see the racer ahead (a speck) and saw a couple planes go through turn 1. After that I saw no one...pretty much concentrated on course, terrain, obstacles and speed. In the zone...the fun zone! Its a pretty typical scenario...you may see one or two ahead of you, and you listen to see if the guy behind you is gaining (via turn calls). But you mostly fly your own race.

People make mistakes in races, missed starts (and ensuing mulligans), missed turns, late turns, failing to climb or descend for winds (guilty in the last race :eek:), drifting off course...etc. Often (as was said earlier) you are the only one to know it. The stopwatch knows of course, but more often than not, we share the goods and "others" of our day, and laugh about it over the BBQ and frosties after the race (and learn from it, of course). I'll let ya know when I run a perfect race (and thus beat Tom Martin...if you know how fast he is, you'll know what I mean!)

If you'd like, let's meet up a day early at Wenatchee, and fly the course together. We did it as a 4-ship in Canada, and a 3-ship in Taylor last year. I'm sure the engineer of that train near Taylor is still talking about those airplanes that did the smoking fly-by! (all legal!) :D I did a pre-run solo last year at Wenatchee, and there are a few choices to make...river canyon (low), or direct (with climb)...stuff like that. Good to see it ahead of time, and not at full speed, just course familiarization (if you aint cheatin' you aint tryin'!). Fun course too!

I'm game if you are (and I hope more RVs will make it this year to support Tim's race!!) Purty country along the Columbia River!

So no worries at all...just come out and have fun!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Game on. Is it wrong to be excited about flogging my brand new airplane.:eek:

Bob A sent me some of his race info that helped me see what his process is. Thanks Bob. And you others have convinced me to at least put Wenatchee on the calendar and make preps to go. My work may be problematic (peak of spring runoff), might be a quick trip over and back.

thanks to all for the encouragement and info....Buffoonery be damned
 
Well Brian What Do You Think About Your Decision Now?

Well Brian, what do You think about your decision now?

Bob Axsom
 
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RV8iator said:
I've never heard of a Lycoming complaining about being run hard..

In fact, mine says she likes it
Click to expand...

Concur Widget! Mine says the same thing! It's the smoothest at 2700 RPM too (though I have not yet done the Kahuna prop-clocking mod to the D-twist paddle). It is thirsty there though! ;)

Methinks Brian found the zone at BSAR...he ran fast (and hard) as far as I can tell! :D

Cheers,
Bob
 
Bob Axsom said:
Well Brian, what do You think about your decision now?

Bob Axsom
Click to expand...

I definitely made the correct decision. I made some errors at Wenatchee for sure. I didn't know how hard to push myself or my plane in that race either. the weather was a factor so I'll lean on that as an excuse for not running full power. But Wenatchee GNAR II was a great time, excellent place to cut my teeth and learn. No pressure from anybody. Hardest thing was, we were hosting the Big Sky race 3 weeks later and I had big shoes to fill after Tim's event.

I had trouble mentally & physically drained before the BSAR race and almost scratched. But once we launched I was "Green for Go". These Races are FANTASTIC. I learn more about myself everytime. I finally ran pretty hard also, 2570rpm, WOT, leaned a bit since DA was close to 7000'. Dynon was showing 93%power and 185-188KTAS. But my biggest improvement was flying precise and flying a PLAN. I've got some more improving to do for sure. I might not catch Jason 391, but should be able to find another 3-5kts.

now my biggest issue with Sport Air Racing....I work and need money to make it to more races. Pagosa Springs maybe, but may hold out and go to the Rocket 100 for the finale. Kris really enjoyed the people and atmosphere. Annaliese was talking her into getting her PPL, cuz' there needs to be more women pilots and racers.
 
1, i love that turbine legend!!!!!!!! i really want one or a ride.

2, turn off your alternator and save HP for speed.

3, line up on the runway pointing right so you wount need to waste brakes or rudder to keep it going straight.

4, at sun n fun race my race bud told me to keep rpms under 2,900 and i would be fine. my fp 180 6a was turning 2,850 rpm wot full rich on the deck 208 mph stock nothing done out of the box rv.

5, in the turns we headed for a point a bit wide of the turning point and did a not so steep turn which put us at the turning point and headed to the next turn.

6, it was such a rush and i was glad to see my rv perform so well for a stocker.
 
Feel the rush again

turbo said:
...
4, at sun n fun race my race bud told me to keep rpms under 2,900 and i would be fine. my fp 180 6a was turning 2,850 rpm wot full rich on the deck 208 mph stock nothing done out of the box rv.

5, in the turns we headed for a point a bit wide of the turning point and did a not so steep turn which put us at the turning point and headed to the next turn.

6, it was such a rush and i was glad to see my rv perform so well for a stocker.
Click to expand...

You are obviously a serious candidate for the cross country air races - you've been there, done that and know what it is all about. Unfortunately for us the S'n'F management saw fit to cancel the Sun series without warning in 2005 but dim wits can't kill the spirit. There are several left in your quadrant of the US this year (2011). Check out the list remaining at www.sportairrace.org Calendar of Events:

Air Venture Cup
24 July, 2011
Dayton, OH (MGY)

The Indy Air Race
13 August, 2011
Indianapolis, IN (TYQ)

The Tennessee 100 Air Race
10 September, 2011
Tullahoma, TN (THA)

The Pagosa Springs 100 Air Race
24 September, 2011
Pagosa Springs, CO (PSO)

The Northwoods 100 Air Race
24 September, 2011
Waupaca, WI (PCZ)

The Lancaster to Lock Haven 180
1 October, 2011
Lancaster, PA (LNS)

The Thunderbird 150 Air Race
8 October, 2011
Wickenburg, AZ (E25)

The Houston 150 Air Race
15 October, 2011
Cleveland, TX (6R3, LFK alternate)

The Tennessee Valley Air Race IV
29 October, 2011
Courtland, AL (9A4)

The Rocket 100 Air Race
19 November, 2011
Taylor, TX (T74)

Bob Axsom
 
Allan Carroll your expertise is requested

Would you mind updating the chart you produced at the start of this thread? It would be interesting to compare "now" with "then" and people are asking me if I have a current chart (which of course I do not).

Bob Axsom
 
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