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Canyon de Chelly flight

mach25

Member
This is a video taken in northern New Mexico and southern Utah. We flew down Canyon de Chelly. I'd never heard of it before this trip, and it is one of the most beautiful canyons ever.
I've added music, and it is best viewed in HD to see the detail in the canyon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfQYoxHmRzU

Jeff Bertsch
RV4


[ed. Pretty scenery! Having said that, I would respectfully suggest giving some thought to how many I.P. addresses visiting this site daily (dozens) resolve back to FAA HQ in DC. Just sayin...and I don't like playing bad cop as much as you don't like reading it...I'd suspect <g>. Just a gentle reminder that lots of non-RV folks read this site daily for various reasons. v/r,dr.]
 
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Flying like this especially over a National Monument is exactly why general aviation and RV's have a bad reputation. While the 2000 ft agl is only a recommendation in National Parks and Monuments it will become a rule if we abuse the privilege. Smoke just proves this flight was all about showing off.
 
Flying like this especially over a National Monument is exactly why general aviation and RV's have a bad reputation. While the 2000 ft agl is only a recommendation in National Parks and Monuments it will become a rule if we abuse the privilege. Smoke just proves this flight was all about showing off.

2388013466_2f024dfd06_z.jpg
 
judgement

First, I actually enjoyed the video and music. A ton of home made videos from small planes abound... and most just entertain the owner. This was kind of fun.
Having said that though... I would not have turned smoke on.
Drawing attention to low flying aircraft in that way is bad for all of us.
There are many places where the Native Americans have pretty strong feelings about the land.... and many places where the feds are not amused at our antics. Best not to poke with that stick in my view.
 
Wow! Poor taste to fly this way in a national park. The canyon floor is only accessible through guided tours. I would think this would be highly frowned upon. Not cool.
 
Flying like this especially over a National Monument is exactly why general aviation and RV's have a bad reputation. While the 2000 ft agl is only a recommendation in National Parks and Monuments it will become a rule if we abuse the privilege. Smoke just proves this flight was all about showing off.

Me 2. Totally disrespectful.
 
Not a fan

Let's have fun in the canyons but jeez, smoke on between the spires of the Dine tribal landmark?
 
Totally agree with RV3Dave.

Respectfully,
Dave

+ 3 on RV3Dave's comments. While I am all for flying over beautiful scenery like this, you have to respect the people who live there and have beliefs in the land.

Smoke = showboating in my option
 
This is a video taken in northern New Mexico and southern Utah. We flew down Canyon de Chelly. I'd never heard of it before this trip, and it is one of the most beautiful canyons ever.
I've added music, and it is best viewed in HD to see the detail in the canyon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfQYoxHmRzU

Jeff Bertsch
RV4

Enjoyed the Video Guys, nicely done editing and music.

And: Unlike the hikers, you came, took nothing but pictures and left . . . . not even footprints. No flora nor fauna was harmed in the process. Great way to enjoy the scenery, and very sustainable.:D

A least that scenery is not tainted by a sea of wind generators with those horrible synchronized red blinking lights that light up the sky red in low cloud conditions like my northern sky.
 
Bill, the people down there - and on a day like that, there will be people down there - may have planned this as their only vacation this year. They get to hear the noise for quite some time and the smoke will linger. It's not too much to say that this was a significant disruption in their trip.

And that ignores the pilots not respecting the site itself.

Yeah, the video was pretty. Would have been better without that smoke obscuring parts of the canyon, though. A well-done video of a thoughtless and rude event doesn't excuse it.

Dave
 
Penny and I, our 30th wedding anniversary included a trip to Canyon De Chelly. Part of the canyon is park land, part indian reservation. During our hike we struck up a conversation with A.C Henry, a Navajo indian and craftsman. His family lives in the canyon, their small farm is there. We bought (actually he gave me as I left my money in the car several miles away) a silver bracelet engraved with the things that were important to him: water hand pump, goat, spider rock, clothesline, shade house, tree, hogan, wagon, water barrel, sheep, apple tree, white house in between. Did not have an airplane trailing smoke, any airplane for that matter. His regard for his home, farm, the canyon leads me to think he would have been offended by an airplane flying low in close quarters through his canyon. We are intruders there. Remember that.
 
Flying in this manner over Canyon de Chelly was a really, really bad idea! I did charter work flying to the Indian reservations in this area. We would have never considered operating in this manner. Be respectful of these people and the residents there.
 
Not RV's but subject related. Two AC flying through a canyon near a NP. The guys filming don't seem to be put off by it. Maybe because they were not smoking, at least not the pilots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6yG-HO-8hQ

If I was down in Canyon de Chelly and looked up and saw a couple of planes flying formation through there, smoking or not, I would be genuinely impressed. The intrusion would be brief.

I can't, won't and don't fly like that but appreciate those who can and do.

There will probably come a time when beautiful areas like these are filled with drones. That would be disturbing.
 
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Times have Changed

I recall an episode of ABCs Wide World of Flying where a Cessna 310(?) flew low level down Escalante Canyon N of Lake Powell with a camera on the belly. By "low level", I mean you could see bushes above the horizon at certain points. The video was introduced by Barry Schiff with music by Tangerine Dream and the title was "Why We Fly". Watching that video was a religious experience for me while building my aircraft. I have it on VHS down in the basement.

I guess times have changed.
 
Wow, what a finger wagging pile on. :(

No finger wagging here as I love the video, the southwest scenery, and the chance to dream a little as I work away on my own RV. I hope others will take the time to post video of their magic flights. :D

I get the need for respect for each other, but it is really a shame that the possibility that someone might be offended by 30 seconds of noise passing overhead, offends us.
Political correctness is not going to make me ashamed that I am an old(er) white guy, don't like the government telling me how I should spend my hard earned money, love the southwest as much as those (whose ancestors) were there first, love flying low where I can really see and feel the landscape slipping smoothly by, and dream of the day I am an RV driver. (among many other politically incorrect opinions :eek:)

My take on the smoke was for visibility in a visually rich, high workload environment, as I would have appreciated that were I the one in trail. FWIW
 
I recall an episode of ABCs Wide World of Flying where a Cessna 310(?) flew low level down Escalante Canyon N of Lake Powell with a camera on the belly. By "low level", I mean you could see bushes above the horizon at certain points. The video was introduced by Barry Schiff with music by Tangerine Dream and the title was "Why We Fly". Watching that video was a religious experience for me while building my aircraft. I have it on VHS down in the basement.

I guess times have changed.

VH. What ???

I got myself a video converter card for the computer and transferred both VHS and old 8mm tapes to disk. Best $25 on eBay I ever spent
 
I got myself a video converter card for the computer and transferred both VHS and old 8mm tapes to disk.
That's what I need to do. Oh, I found the Wide World of Flying tape; It's Vol 2 No. 7 with the floatplane on the front. The segment with the low-level video is called "Eagle's View" Why do you fly? I would have expected someone to have posted it on YouTube by now, but apparently not.
 
Wow, what a finger wagging pile on. :(

No finger wagging here as I love the video, the southwest scenery, and the chance to dream a little as I work away on my own RV. I hope others will take the time to post video of their magic flights. :D

I get the need for respect for each other, but it is really a shame that the possibility that someone might be offended by 30 seconds of noise passing overhead, offends us.
Political correctness is not going to make me ashamed that I am an old(er) white guy, don't like the government telling me how I should spend my hard earned money, love the southwest as much as those (whose ancestors) were there first, love flying low where I can really see and feel the landscape slipping smoothly by, and dream of the day I am an RV driver. (among many other politically incorrect opinions :eek:)

My take on the smoke was for visibility in a visually rich, high workload environment, as I would have appreciated that were I the one in trail. FWIW

Well said!!!

Jeff, I hope that you have learned your lesson! ;) No good deed goes unpunished. You meant well by publishing this. It is very well done!

You broke no laws and caused no harm. Like Bill L. says, you left no footprints.

I paid my taxes this year, how about you?

Nice video!

:cool: CJ
 
That's what I need to do. Oh, I found the Wide World of Flying tape; It's Vol 2 No. 7 with the floatplane on the front. The segment with the low-level video is called "Eagle's View" Why do you fly? I would have expected someone to have posted it on YouTube by now, but apparently not.

I got this card off eBay for $25, my source tapes were a mixture of NTSC and PAL standard and this card didn't care. Converted over 120hrs of old PAL 8mm family videos and about 35 hours of VHS.

Hauppauge Win TV HVR-1600 NTSC/ATSC Combo

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr1600.html
 
Wow, what a finger wagging pile on. :(

No finger wagging here as I love the video, the southwest scenery, and the chance to dream a little as I work away on my own RV. I hope others will take the time to post video of their magic flights. :D

I get the need for respect for each other, but it is really a shame that the possibility that someone might be offended by 30 seconds of noise passing overhead, offends us.
Political correctness is not going to make me ashamed that I am an old(er) white guy, don't like the government telling me how I should spend my hard earned money, love the southwest as much as those (whose ancestors) were there first, love flying low where I can really see and feel the landscape slipping smoothly by, and dream of the day I am an RV driver. (among many other politically incorrect opinions :eek:)
FWIW
And you pretty much don't care how your behavior infringes on other people enjoying their time in the southwest, nor how it impacts wildlife?
 
We recently returned from a trip to Yellowstone. During this trip we often heard loud Harley's driving by while looking at the the most beautiful serene landscape to the point that it was an aggravation. Not once did we see a RV flying by, but had I seen one it would have been amazing, and I would have wished I could see from a pilots perspective. The natives are used to the jeeps, ATV's, and motorcycles that stay around much longer, and probably look up with wonder with what pilots see from that view. With this video the beauty is to behold for those not able.

This video and other videos is an encouragement to build on for many of us that are not able to see these places from that perspective yet. This community has not and I trust will not abuse the priveledge.

Thanks for sharing.
 
Flying like this especially over a National Monument is exactly why general aviation and RV's have a bad reputation. While the 2000 ft agl is only a recommendation in National Parks and Monuments it will become a rule if we abuse the privilege. Smoke just proves this flight was all about showing off.

Freedoms not exercised are freedoms lost. If the people posting here are to control all of us, then let's just prohibit any flying below 2000' agl. And why not make it 5000' agl, so the noise is less? Actually, why are any of you flying around in small airplanes spewing greenhouse gasses and toxic lead???

As for the smoke, why would they be showing off to the few people, if any, who are down there? It was clearly for video effect.

And what of the benefit provided seeing this video for the people who will never get to see this area from the air, or on foot for that matter?

*This thread* demonstrates why I will never post another photo or video on this board.
 
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Wow

That was the best RV video I have ever seen. Well done. I have been to Canyon de Chelly; took the ground tour with the Navajo Guide. It was spectacular. I would have enjoyed seeing two planes zooming by overhead for all of 30 seconds and I suspect so would most people. It's not like it is happening all day long. Why can't airplanes enjoy the national parks the same way cars, motorcycles, ATVs, bikes, horses, boats, ski machines, recreational vehicles, etc. get to do?
 
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Visitors

I can find things to agree with on both sides of this debate I think. I struggled with a similar question myself recently while shooting air-to-ground video of geysers in Yellowstone, that I wanted use in a online energy course (with over 12,000 enrolled). I was strongly tempted to go low, but in the end chose not to. The resulting shots that I got from >2000 agl were not great and didn't make it into the course.

One thing I have to disagree with is the notion this activity doesn't affect many people. According to the internet Canyon de Chelly is actually one of the most visited national monuments, over 800,000 visitors per year with the peak in August. The majority of these probably came during the warmer months, so it seems pretty certain the impromptu air show had a large audience. It would be interesting (although impossible) to know their opinions!
 
REALLY ?

Interesting that the FIRST Response was from someone from a former COMMUNIST COUNTRY!!!!!
THINK ABOUT IT!!!!
 
Interesting that the FIRST Response was from someone from a former COMMUNIST COUNTRY!!!!!
THINK ABOUT IT!!!!

I hope you meant "formerly from a" , but yes.

On the noise. I looked up the reasons for the 2000' request. It was based on the "soundscape" craze (or themes - pick your word) at the time. So then, looked up sound for GA planes and the dBA reduction for the distance. Background without people in a park is 25-30 dBA. With people it is 30-40 dBa. A 2 blade 72-74" prop at 2700 is about 77 dBa (referenced in the doc). If the exhaust is about the same, then it is double, about 80 dBA. Pretty close to the listed 172. If the sound is measured at 500-700' it is reduced to the 30 dBA range. You guys can recheck the numbers and correct as appropriate, but the actual sound is not so high.

Each person interprets things differently. I bet some were watching (depending on the time of day) and saying/thinking- wow how cool ;)

I moved to a country setting. It was nice at night to have darkness and see the stars. New people moved in built new houses- 50% of them put a lamp post with a brilliant light on it that stays on all night. Right at eye level. :cool:
 
Simple. Inside Boundaries of a National Park, 2000'AGL, on the chart, not too much to ask.

Put it on a social media site? I might have had height to make a landing zone, as well as the 2000' AGL, defendable if asked, chute or no chute.

Great video, no multiple takes or loiters depicted so not too much noise footprint. Except that 1 complainer that gets your name tagged to a permanent hard deck or worse, another Grand Canyon CFR.

Saw the canyon as a kid, was already flying. A quick buzz that you know is high enough and low enough RPM to not quiver the true bother meter of a reasonable person takes a little practice. Wing work is usually above that RPM.

The video did look a bit like the old Blue Angles or T Birds flying over the Grand Canyon. You had great lighting, planned or not. Hope it made some "chemtrailer" poop, but not call anyone in LE.

I see both sides, and have flow plenty of disruptive military low levels, by the books. I lean towards the, "Sweet", but no doubt you obviously get the sour too.
 
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It was great to go to the Reno Air Races and hear all the RV's racing around the course.

I worked at a research lab on a Naval Air Station for 33 years, and it was always cool to hear a pair of Hornets in the break, or a Tomcat depart in full AB.

When I go backpacking in the wilderness, or visit a National Park, I want to hear the gurgling of water in the creek, the wind in the cottonwoods, and the sound I want to hear echoing off the canyon walls is the song of a canyon wren, not a GA airplane.

BillL's noise data ignores the effects of echoing off of clouds or in a canyon. I have no doubt that those airplanes were very audible for at least 3 miles up and down the canyon. We fly about 3 miles a minute, so that means that a visitor to the park would hear those airplanes for two minutes, perhaps more.

The reason for the 2000 ft request is indeed to preserve the sound environment, a significant contributing part of the overall environment and experience of visiting the grand places we have collectively protected for those specific types of enjoyment. It wasn't some "craze" as suggested, it is an ongoing pressure to restrict activities by some that infringe on the freedom of others to have a place to enjoy free of man-made disturbances.

Like it or not, every time you fly, you are an ambassador for RV's and for GA flying in general. As this, and the other recent thread about flying manners illustrates, some of us are more considerate than others of how our behavior impacts other people. There is an old adage, "your fist's rights end at the tip of my nose". Keep exercising your "right" to fly through a National Monument below the rim of a canyon and likely the 2000 ft request won't just be a request any more.
 
Hauppauge Win TV HVR-1600 NTSC/ATSC Combo
A friend loaned me his Canopus ADVC110 and it seems to work. I rummaged around in the basement and dug out a Sony VHS player (yes, I'm a pack rat). I hooked it up to the Canopus and connected the Canopus to my computer via FireWire. I had to convert the .avi output of the Canopus to a .wmv in order to view it. That process took two beers. Here's a link to the video clip that gave me so much motivation when I was first building. Flying to Lake Powell is on my bucket list:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q81wzk4yhyc2zfy/2016-10-24 14.59.31 WWoF.wmv?dl=0
 
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