WW200RV Delivery

I have sent these pictures to American Propeller but I want opinions from the gallery as well. I just received my propeller today and much to my surprise I found the nickle leading edge less than perfectly smooth, being totally new I had expected the leading edge to have no blemishes. I know many of you have this propeller so I wondered if you saw similar imperfections. The tips have me concerned since they will reach some very high speeds. Both tips look the same, may be the nickle material it difficult to smooth in a small area like this. The other photo is what looks like a drop of nickle material that has been buffed smooth. Am I being over concerned! Kind of figure the propeller must have gone though some type of QA check but just curious what you guys have seen with your new propellers. The warranty on this sucker may expire before I fly so if there are any issues I want to take care of them now.

Cheers

200RV

Mine didn't come that way direct from Whirlwind! I'd make a call to American Propeller.

Seb Trost
RV-7A 360 hours
working on 3rd annual

Email into American Prop

I have an email sent into them. The photo is a close up so I am sure it looks really bad, but my concern is that you can even feel the roughness.

SebsRV7A said:

Mine didn't come that way direct from Whirlwind! I'd make a call to American Propeller.

Seb Trost
RV-7A 360 hours
working on 3rd annual

Click to expand...

The tips of my WW200RV look the same as the first picture. That assumes that the first picture spans about 1/2"-3/4" of the prop. I always assumed it was due the the serious amount of shrinking they must have to do to form the nickel leading edge there, but am curious to see what American and Whirlwind say.


Guy

I cannot see the pictures posted for whatever reason, but suffice it to say that my 200RV prop (now 2-3 years old) was a flawless work of art when I received it. Absolutely nothing to complain about from an asthetic or physical standpoint. Either something has changed since then or somebody made a boo-boo on yours and it wasnt caught.

erich

Reading this thread started me thinking. Was I so dazzzled by the beauty I overlooked potential flaws? So with camera in hand, I slipped out to the shop.

I'm not too good at getting good detailed pics but here is a tip pic


polish job looks ok but tip color is actually purple


No flaws here....I should bring it in the house and hang it over the mantle.

The nickel leading edges/tips should be smooth....so smooth they are almost as shiny as a mirror. I'd make a call direct to Whirlwind. I recently visited the Whirlwind shop in Ohio and the shop and folks that work there are first class. For the record the nickel leading edges are not formed. They are 'grown' on a shape that has been immersed in a nickel plating bath. The leading edge is a thickness of plated material. They are not formed/hammered/etc. in any way....the shape comes from the plating process. They are bonded to the composite blades with epoxy, and after that is done the finishing/painting process begins.

The more I look at the pictures of the rough leading edge/tip the more I would be ADAMANT about getting a replacement propeller. You spent a lot of money for that propeller and it should be just about perfect. I would be really wary of mounting that prop on an engine and running it. That prop ain't right IMO.

WW Mantelpiece

You should hang it over the mantel, that thing is a beauty!



H

Not on mine

I have an early WW 200 RV from the shop when it was in El Cajon CA. The LE strip on mine was perfect. Still is with nearly 500 hours in 4 years.

The edges of yours look almost like a used prop and is not consistent with the high standards of WW.

Leading Edge Polish

Hi "Nemo,"

My WW200RV also arrived with some minor nickel "splatter" (tiny raised bumps) on the leading edge. The tips also had a few of the "nicks" as shown on yours.

Evidently, American Propeller was unaware that they had to carefully polish the nickel leading edges before shipment to customers. What you're seeing is probably how the prop was shipped from Whirlwind to American. After I reported my prop's leading edge issues, Whirlwind and American Propeller had a meeting late last month to correct American's leading edge polishing process.

Like the good supplier they are, American Propeller offered to pick-up my prop, polish it, and re-deliver it. I assume that they'll do the same for you. I've decided that rather than shipping my prop to Redding and back, I'll mask off the composite portion of my blades and carefully flat-sand and then polish the leading edges myself. My leading edge's tiny "bumps" and "nicks" don't look as big as yours, but it could be that your close-ups make them look bigger than they really are.

Hopefully, I'll be able to achieve "factory-quality" leading edges as shown above.

Take Care!

Bill Palmer

flickroll said:

For the record the nickel leading edges are not formed. They are 'grown' on a shape that has been immersed in a nickel plating bath. The leading edge is a thickness of plated material. They are not formed/hammered/etc. in any way....the shape comes from the plating process. They are bonded to the composite blades with epoxy, and after that is done the finishing/painting process begins.

Click to expand...

I believe they are electro formed on a finely polished mandrel, then bonded to the blades.

Propeller going back for another look

By all accounts my propeller is most likely well within tolerances and just have some cosmetic blemishes, however American Propeller may be able to smooth it up more so they will pick up the propeller the next run they have up the coast. Thankfully they make regular runs up my way. Both WW and American have been very responsive to my questions and very understanding, I kind of feel like I am being overly cautious but I'm glad they are working with me. More great companies serving the RV community! And thanks to those on this forum who responded to my questions.

Cheers

Optional Leading Edge Dressing

Optional Leading Edge Dressing

The Whirlwind propeller is equipped with an electro deposition nickel leading edge. During the electro forming process nodules or uneven surface can form on the tangent of the leading edge.

The leading edge of the leading edge tangent point is approximately .050 thick not including any nodules. These nodules and blemishes can be removed with a fine file and smoothed with 220, 320 sand paper.

For a high polished finish the process can be carried out through 1000 grit wet sand paper and finished with a polishing compound.

Note: This process is option.

Free leading edge dressing kits are available by American Propeller. To receive your kit go to www.ameritech-aviation.com and fill out the contact information form.

My WW200RV prop from American Propeller is excellent. Thanks again Eagle Bob.

No way I'd start dressing a brand new prop. That's something that should have been done before it left the factory. American Prop and Whirlwind would be getting a call from me. JMO

leading edges

I took my WW prop out of the box today to have a look based on what others have reported. It appears my leading edges are 'less than perfect', as others have found.

I will send an email to Kevin at Ameritech Industries and see what he has to say regarding my options to correct this. Kevin has been my primary point of contact throughout the WW prop group buy process and has always been very responsive. I have no reason to believe they won't make this right.

I'll update this thread as I get more info.

I've been going back and forth deciding between the ww200rv and the hartzell ba looking forward to seeing how this is adressed.

Optional finishing?!?!

EAGLE BOB said:

Optional Leading Edge Dressing

For a high polished finish the process can be carried out through 1000 grit wet sand paper and finished with a polishing compound.

Note: This process is option.

Free leading edge dressing kits are available by American Propeller. To receive your kit go to www.ameritech-aviation.com and fill out the contact information form.

Click to expand...

Bob,

I hope I'm misunderstanding. When we talked on the phone and I placed my order several months back I recall a comment you made about how American Propeller does a significant amount of finishing to the blades as supplied from Whirlwind. No mention of an optional finishing was mentioned. My prop isn't due for another month, but I would be quite disappointed to find out upon delivery that the prop will be any lesser quality than the pristine examples I've seen and come to expect from Whirlwind and American Propeller (for example in Brian Carroll's images).

mcencula said:

......... the pristine examples I've seen and come to expect from Whirlwind and American Propeller (for example in Brian Carroll's images).

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I can't speak for American Propeller or anyone who ordered a WW200. But anytime I had questions about my order I called and spoke with people on the front line. Special thanks to Kevin and Bob. I would hope people will contact the vendor and give them a chance, prior to air it out on a forum.

I will also disclose that I did not order(or pay for) the standard WW200RV prop that was offered in the group buy. I participated in the group buy and got the discount, but ordered a custom painted prop....yes it cost extra.....did the custom paint include the high polish? I guess so. Did it cost more than Vans/Hartzell BA? yep.

Would I do it again?....in a heart beat!

quick update

I just got off the phone with Kevin at Ameritech. They are going to send their driver by sometime this week to pick up my prop, take care of the leading edges, then get it back to me. He was apologetic for the hassle, and I know things happen. As long as they make it right, I'm perfectly happy (because I don't need the prop yet!).

It certainly sounds like they're going to do whatever it takes to make it right. Based on other forum posts, I really had no reason to think otherwise.

That's what I know at this point. More on this later.

Redoing finish

Kevin has arranged for my propeller to be picked up so that the finish can be redone. It seems the issue is with expectation and the differences we see in the finished product. I started this thread because I was trying to determine if what I was seeing was normal. For me it was a safety issue, with all I have learned in the build process about stress risers it seems any type of blemish on the propeller is of concern. With the few responses and what I have been able to glean from talking with some others some come with the leading edge finished like a mirror and some have some blemishes. The folks at WW said they would have to see the propeller in person to be sure but my photos showed a finish that was less than they would expect. They suggested I work with American Propeller to resolve the issue, which is being done.

I was disappointed when I read Bob's post referencing some finish kit that now is being mentioned. I am sorry to say that this comes across as a deflection to the true issue and that is what we expected, which was a new propeller ready to hang on the engine with a first class finish no owner improvement required. I for one never intend to do anything other than clean my propeller, if something other than a rag is taken to this propeller it will be done by a professional propeller shop. I did not buy a new propeller to then have to take sandpaper to it to get the finish I expected, and I don?t think anyone else did either.

Bob's post not withstanding American Propeller has agreed to take my propeller back and make things right, which is good business. I have a suggestion for the future, if the finishing kit is a requirement then disclose that up front and at the show have a propeller that looks like will be delivered and explain how the finish kit will improve the finish. I can tell you if I was told up front I would need to take sandpaper to my propeller I would have purchased someplace else, that may just be me.
Too many have had these propellers delivered in pristine condition for me to believe that there was some sort of finishing I should have expected to do. Sometimes things happen and work is not up to par, the company takes care of the QA problem period. I am sorry if I started a firestorm for American Propeller but we all deserve what we pay for, the group buy was a good deal but we were not buying seconds or partially finished propellers we were buying the same thing anyone who paid full price would get.

I'm glad American Propeller is doing the right thing!

Props should be finished by American Propeller

Spoke with Kevin today about my upcoming delivery of the group buy 200RV prop. He assured me the leading edges will be just fine. I am guessing there was a disconnect about the finishing process, but Kevin stepped up to put it to rest. Thanks, Kevin.

Mike, everything you say in your last post makes perfect sense to me. You had certain expectations for a darn good reason and those expectations were not met, at least initially. Glad to hear it will be made right.

erich

What was the final price/prop on the group buy?

Glenn Wilkinson

$7200 I think. I ordered custom paint and a prop governor plus shipping. so don't recall the exact base price. They ended up selling over 70 props during the group buy

I have to share my $.02 here regarding the WW group buy and American Propeller. I'm part of the group buy but don't need my prop right away so I have not taken delivery yet. I've worked with Kevin and their artist to design a custom paint scheme for the prop so my project has been pretty involved for American Propeller. ...and I'm a little high maintenance when it comes to the final artwork!!

I'm a first time builder and have had the opportunity, as we all have, to work with dozens of companies through the course of the build. In terms of patience, customer focus and "we'll make it right" attitude there are very few companies I've come across over the last 4 years of building that rank up there with Kevin and American Propeller. It's important to me to work with companies that I KNOW will make sure I'm a happy builder if something goes sideways. (SteinAir & Avery Tools are two others) In my mind, relationships are largely defined by how the two parties overcome adversity. I have no doubt that American Propeller will have 72 out of 72 happy RV builders when they have delivered all the 200RV's they sold through the group buy.

- Peter

Group Buy Price

The retail was $7875 and the group buy was $7200. Shipping is added to that. To Jacksonville FL, shipping was $205.00

Follow up

I started this thread and I am happy to say that my propeller returned from American Propeller today with a perfect finish. I would like to thank Kevin and all of the folks at American Propeller for taking the time to give my propeller the perfect glimmer I expected. From all accounts my propeller was always airworthy it just did not have the finish on the nickle that I had expected. American Propeller without hesitation took the propeller back to give it another polish and I am very pleased with the results. I would also like to thank Chuck, the NW representative that does the deliveries up this way, I am sure he knows the nearby truck stop really well now. Another testament to the great companies who cater to the RV community.

Cheers

Just arrived

My WW200RV arrived today and it is beautiful! Any concerns this thread caused me went right out the window when I saw the beautiful finish and quality. Thanks American Propeller!