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Loud Cockpit

b432291

Active Member
Because my RV-7A does not yet have an interior it is pretty loud. With headsets the noise is not a problem, but it IS a problem for the "built in" intercom on the ICOM-A210 radio (which does have the latest factory firmware). No matter what the ICS squelch is set to, in flight it's open mic. Right now I've got a portable Intercom, but I am considering the following options:
- Install interior which will lower noise (how many db???)
- Buy PS Engineering loud cockpit intercom PM-1200 (~$500)
- Sell ICOM-A210 ($800???), buy Garmin GTR 200 ($1,300) (~$500 cost)
- Buy different headsets that pickup less noise (which brand is that?)

Any and all opinions appreciated,
Ted
 
I'd put a small PS box in. They don't cost much and works very well.

I'd also buy a Zulu or Bose. Best money you can spend inside an RV.
 
Try inexpensive stuff first. Oregon aero recommends a foam windscreen and a leather cover, with two small holes, over the mikes, for noisy cockpits, to maximize the mike's noise canceling ability.
 
Will Call Oregon Aero first thing Monday for the covers, I have foam covers but not the leather.

Unfortunately, I will never deal with Lightspeed. I have two older lightspeed headsets I sent to them for refurbishment. The call I got back was they could do NOTHING but give me $100 towards $1500 worth of new headsets. F that, I spent close to $1000 for the headsets to begin with, and they treated me like scum. I might consider the Bose - I know for a fact Bose supports old stuff. Or maybe go with another brand. What about Helicopter headsets? Would they help - or it that a different kind of noise?

Ted
 
I have an Sigtronics 200S intercom matched with the A210 and it works well.

You didn't say what else you have in your panel. If you have an EFIS, I would keep the A210 and add an intercom. Simply because you can wire your EFIS into one of the mono input channels on the iCom and heard the voice/warning tones through your headsets.
 
Try adjusting the "gain" on your headset mics. I did this on my Zulu 2 after about 18 months, and it worked!
 
Yes, I have skyview, have not (yet) wired in the skyview audio. Do you find it a hassle to adjust the squelch?
 
My varieze had the same problem with a cheap headset. Got a nice but cheap leather glove, cut a finger off and made holes for the mike. Worked fine but as said above my Zulu is the best electronic purchase in my cockpit. Wish I could afford another for the passenger.
 
Two comments. In interest of balance: Lightspeed is known for exemplary customer service. In fact two of my Zulus are returning from shop today. No charge even though I fractured both sets in the 9A by putting them on the seat back and then leaning back inadvertently. Perhaps yours are antiques
At some point a manuf. has to draw the line. I see Garmin can no longer repair certain 430's. A shame but true.
 
ahhhhhh, adjust the headset gain, forgot about that one. (to the hanger, batman! engage the jewelers screwdrivers!)
 
I understand manu's have to draw the line, but $100 upgrade rebate on only 1 headset and nothing for the other? F U customer is what I heard. I can almost completely guarantee you that Bose would not treat a (to that point) happy customer the same way. Now I will simply never buy, nor recommend, Lightspeed to anyone. I mean there ARE other headset companies. And I also guarantee you that on a $1,100 headset there is some margin.
 
Yes, I have skyview, have not (yet) wired in the skyview audio. Do you find it a hassle to adjust the squelch?

No problem at all.

The mono inputs on the iCom's is the reason I went with them rather than some other brand.

The audio from the SkyView is very clear and I really like the AoA beeping.
 
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Actually around here (Phoenix) I want Betty to warn me about traffic (have Skyview Transponder so TIS traffic currently). Falcon has gotten very busy with over 100 trainers on the field, and the nearby airspace is just as busy. It would have to be some kind of multi-national holiday for the Standfield Stack (unicom Casa Grande has a ILS) to be empty. You'd be absolutely nuts to try and fly or land at the unicom airports south of Phoenix without a radio, let alone without some kind of traffic warning. My next big buy will be the ADS-B module for the skyview.

As for AOA, the beautiful thing about the Van's is it's pussycat flying - I mean you have lots of warning many different ways before you stall. Compared to other aircraft, even production aircraft it is a "gentler" stall and easy to recover. I do have the AOA system, that's on the list for calibration.
 
Noise

Classic Aero makes beautiful carpet pkg. for the cockpit that has noise insulation under the carpet in front of the seats. A great product. I have the Icom A-210 but decided to install the new PS Engineering audio panel (LSA version). The Com is wonderful and provides lots of options to input music, phone etc, more radios in the future - not sure if that fits budget or mission.

I also have found lately a noise problem with the "Bitchen Betty" output from Skyview. There is a fix to put a resister in line to limit noise - the process is detailed on the Dynon Forum if that becomes a problem with your setup. I have yet to do it but will get it done soon.

Good Luck:cool::cool:
 
Why two holes in the leather cover over the mic?

Try inexpensive stuff first. Oregon aero recommends a foam windscreen and a leather cover, with two small holes, over the mikes, for noisy cockpits, to maximize the mike's noise canceling ability.

I am also trying to quiet the engine noise that radiates into the mic when I PTT. I already adjusted sidetone and that helped. Cutting a finger off a pair of leather gloves is a good idea but why would u cut a hole on the side of the mic NOT facing the pilot? If I'm not reversing the headset, why cut two holes?

My Lightspeed is back at the factory for its second repair in 7 months. Not pleased with its noise cancellation or the quality of any product that requires two repairs in such a short period of time. Thankfully, it's still under warranty.

Thx.
 
noise in the Van's

Passive microphone noise reduction is mechanical. They allow ambient noise in both ports, front and back.
Then, when you speak... the pressure waves only enter the front. The mic element responds to your voice... but less so to the ambient noise hitting both sides. Keep the mic touching your lips... or it works very poorly.
Hope this explanation makes sense.
BTW I have met the Lightspeed folks for over a decade now at the shows. Also sent many units in for repair under warranty. They are a great company.
The extreme reaction of one customer posting... and using simple abbreviations for foul language is pretty border line behavior on this forum... I am pretty sure. Now if I could only get my headset to decipher the accents on the radio around PHX... I would love that technology.
 
I am also trying to quiet the engine noise that radiates into the mic when I PTT. I already adjusted sidetone and that helped. Cutting a finger off a pair of leather gloves is a good idea but why would u cut a hole on the side of the mic NOT facing the pilot? If I'm not reversing the headset, why cut two holes?

Thx.
Edit: see above post. Some work as described, others like this (same principle):
Noise cancelling mikes (you do not want anything less) work by having two mikes, back to back. The signal is differenced (subtracted). Noise from sources more than a foot or two away tend to be about equal on both sides, so after subtraction you get zero. Speech from your lips (0.1" away) is much louder in the mike facing your lips than the other, so after subtraction there remains a strong net signal. To keep the cancelation working correctly, both sides need the same size hole. If the mike is not very close to your lips, it will tend to cancel your speech!
 
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Bob, can you send me a reference for a microphone manufacturer that uses that technique? It sounds promising. I have customers who are trying to quiet an OV-10 Bronco for fire season. All the microphones I have taken apart have only one element. I know the earcups have microphones for cancellation though...
 
Try A200 was notorious for coming from the factory with the microphone gain set way to high for our high-noise airplanes. I'd start with that.
 
Noise cancelling mikes (you do not want anything less) work by having two mikes, back to back. The signal is differenced (subtracted). Noise from sources more than a foot or two away tend to be about equal on both sides, so after subtraction you get zero.

I used to make up paired mics for the theater at the college I worked at back in the late 1960s by building a "Y" cord wired out of phase.

Works quiet well for canceling out background noise-----anything more that 3 times the distance between the two mics was attenuated rather well, yet you could talk into one mic and all was normal.

Little trick taught to me by the folks from Altec Lancing who did the Acousta Voice setup for the theater.
 
I'm not Bob,

But I was a sound engineer in one of my past lives. Bob's right; differential mics do exist, and have for a long time. Find some old video of Grateful Dead concerts from the '70s when they had their 'wall of sound' PA system. You'll see two identical looking mics in front of each vocalist, one above the other. All the PA speakers fired directly into both mics, but the singer only sang into the top one.

Now, that technique is pretty rare in the 'mobile' world; not sure I've ever seen a headset that used that technique. Virtually all current headsets, and most vocal microphones used in live PA type settings, use 'unidirectional' mics. This link
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep00/articles/direction.htm
has a pretty good diagram of how one works, about 1/2 way down the page. (Or just google the term; you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know.)

Reading your original post, you kinda have the solution embedded in the question. The headphones block the high ambient noise, but the mic can't help picking it up. (Unidirectional mics do have their limits.) Turning down the mic gain is a good suggestion; it increases overall signal to noise (ratio of the mic's perception of your voice's volume to its perception of the ambient noise. (Voice gets louder than the noise, from the mic's perspective.) Next step is reducing ambient noise, as you suspect, but the biggest offender, and easiest thing to fix, hasn't been mentioned.

As strange as it may sound, in most planes like RV's the biggest contributor to noise that affects communication is wind noise. If you haven't already done it, spend whatever time it takes (shouldn't take much money) to seal up all the air leaks around the canopy, wing roots (aileron pushrod boots, etc) and into the tailcone. I'll bet you'll see a dramatic improvement.

Quick test before taking any action: What's the noise/intercom squelch like while doing a runup on the ground? If it's significantly less bad, you probably have a wind noise issue.

Hope the above is useful,

Charlie
 
"Works quiet well".... now yu are pulling my leg Mike!
I am headed down to the thrift store in search of Grate Full dead equipment... be back in a while.
 
I have the RV12 with the Garmin 200. I have been fighting a squeal in the headset every time I key the Mic that goes away once I speak. I assumed it was a ground so I took the airplane apart, wings off to gain access to the headset jacks, floor panels out and started looking for the problem. After finding everything perfect I was ready to start making calls to Stein and Garmin. I then remembered a comment someone made a few weeks earlier about how loud my radio was when I was in the pattern and it started me thinking. I put the radio in setup mode and checked the Mic Gain. It was set on 10.I keyed the Mic and turned it two clicks left to 8 and the noise was gone. Looks like it was so high that the Mic was able to feedback to the headset.

I lot of work chasing grounds for something I should have checked first. The positive result was that I will never again need to remove the wings to get to the headset jack wiring. That design issue was corrected.
 
Sigtronix headset with Mic Muff

I had the same problem a couple years ago. Besides the noise in the intercom, my mic picked up the cockpit noise and transmitted it when I was talking to ATC; The cockpit noise was so loud that ATC could barely understand me. I used a multi-pronged approach and finally solved the problem. I haven't had any complaints from ATC since doing these things:

1. I added sound insulation to the cabin and improved the canopy seals
2. I bought a Sigtronics S-20 headset with a noise-cancelling mic
3. I added a Mic Muff over the microphone
4. I adjusted my Icom A-210 as follows:
INCOM LVL = 051
MIC 1 GAIN = 10
MIC SQL = 026​
5. I added down turns on my exhaust pipes​
 
Just a quick note to relate how we solved a high noise cockpit. This is in OV-10 Bronco's. Lightspeed mic and headset. We found installing not one... but sometimes two or three of the little leather covers from David Clark fixed the issue. Cheap and easy. And yes, they still need the hole in the back AND the front for the passive noise cancel to work. (CAL Fire working planes)
 
There are intercoms expecially made for open cockpit airplanes. I'd start with that. Could probably pick one up for cheaper than you could buy insulation.

SigTronics SPA-400N
 
In interest of balance: Lightspeed is known for exemplary customer service.

Again, in the interest of balance, Lightspeed, by all accounts, has pretty good customer service. I would, however, suggest that a review of posts on this forum will find the NEED for service on Lightspeed headsets is expressed with far greater frequency than for any of the most popular brands. This is, I believe, the most salient point when assessing headsets. Having wonderful customer service is indeed a terrific advantage in the marketplace. Having a product that regularly needs to exercise that wonderful customer service is, well, something other than an advantage.
 
GTR200

My recommendation is to get the best radio with a fantastic digital intercom, the GTR200. You will not regret it. Flying my RV7A with the GTR200 for ~2yrs, no issues and enjoying the state of the art intercom. Far superior to my previous SL40/Flightcom 403 intercom setup.
 
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