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Time for a 360?!?!

GEM930

Well Known Member
Friend
I have made past posts about what I believed were poor climb and performance numbers in my O320 RV6a. Since then I have determined most of the problem was instrumentation and my numbers were not too far off of Van?s. So, about the time I was really starting to enjoy my fuel sipping O-320, my hangar-mate shows up with an O-360 C/S RV-4. Seriously!!!!! Now, I realize I will never be able to completely keep up with a smaller plane with no draggy nose gear and the same engine, but flying with him is beating my ego down like a red headed step child. So having admitted to being ego driven, and realizing I may not be able to pee farther, but hoping to at least miss my shoes, I?m giving an 0-360 some serious thought. I have a line on an O-360-A1D with a constant speed and have a few quick questions?. I have read the multitude of post in reference to 320 vs. 360 and it seems both sides have valid arguments (I do burn less fuel than my 360 brethren at the same speed, but would like the option to burn a lot more to go a faster). It seems those who have done the swap are happy with the results. What I can?t find is any actual before and after numbers on speed and climb increase. Any numbers out there??? Next question: I?m a little C/S dumb?. Since it is adjustable is it more likely it will be an acceptable propeller for my 6a? The propeller is a Hartzell HC-CZK-1BF / F7666A-Z?. Which could be the launch coded for the Russian nuclear arsenal for all I know. I believe it is 74 inches, which seems long to me? will this work? I realize this propeller has a 100 hour inspection AD? is this a major issue / expense?

On a side note, if I decide to pull the trigger I will have an O320 H2AD (314 SMOH 2900 TT) STC Ney Nozzle installation (for cam issue) completely baffled with a carbon fiber plenum and Sensenich metal FP and spinner for sale?.would be great for a 9 or any RV that is not shearing a hangar with a C/S 360!
 
If you're flying to impress other people then spend everything you have and be prepared to still be outdone by someone else. Just a thought.
 
Blades

The "F7666A-Z" Should say F7666A-2. The first number "76" is the base blade length, and the "-2" is the length removed... So it is indeed a 74" prop.
 
My view on this is predictable. Minimum O-360 in an RV 6/7/8. Consult the Vans website for performance info.
 
Need for speed

Many years ago I built street legal ford bucket, 23 body on a tube frame. Built up 450 cu in pontiac with all the goodies. Total weight empty, 1330 lbs. For a few weeks I was top dog down at the drivein, then a dude came in with a street legal willys w/a blown side oiler ford engine. Built up to about 470 cu in. Lesson learned? You bet. No matter how big or how bad you build, one just makes himself a target, a goal and someone will come along and put a wuppin on your poor rearend Dave
 
Okay the point may be drifting here a bit. Not trying to be the fastest out there, just
 
Isn't that the fun of an experimental. I bought a RV-4 after flying a friends that had an O-320 and a prince prop. I have a O-360 with a RV-200 prop. I had a Hartzell that made it a little nose heavy. I bought the Whirl Wind and don't regret it. I did the panel 6 years ago and plan to update it again this year. As far as the OP if you fly a RV with the O-320 and fixed pitch and fly one with an O-360 constant speed the take off and climb difference is hilarious. Is it cost effective? For me I don't care, it's all about fun.

Greg
 
...On a side note, if I decide to pull the trigger I will have an O320 H2AD (314 SMOH 2900 TT) STC Ney Nozzle installation (for cam issue) completely baffled with a carbon fiber plenum and Sensenich metal FP and spinner for sale?.would be great for a 9 or any RV that is not shearing a hangar with a C/S 360!
I wouldn't go with the H2AD engine in YOUR installation.

The reason is that you will have to modfy your cowl to clear the front mounted fuel pump or install two electric fuel pumps.

It is best to replace like-for-like to reduce the amount of re-work you will have to do.

Installing the O-360 with a CS MIGHT require a different engine mount and cowl, which will be a lot of work as well.
 
if you have that urge for more power. GO FOR IT! it's your plane make it how you want it. I don't have comparison numbers for you, but you've already seen what a 360 powered RV-4 can do and you won't be that far off his numbers. Personally, I would not use the AD prop even if it were free.

I had a few local RV tell me all I needed was a O-320 and wood prop...but I wanted MORE. I couldn't afford the big 210hp IO-390, but built up a nice IO-360 coupled with a WW200Rv prop. My -7 cooks along pretty good, but the 360 powered -4's and -8's are faster. that's ok at least I'm not wetting on my shoes:D

Today I flew my daughter to visit a client. On the trip home, she tried to capture a GPS pic. we were showing 195-212kts GS. 178KTAS 8.5gph.

IMG01208-20110927-1312_2.jpg


Dawn Patrol getting ready for launch. Life is good
IMG_20110927_072750.jpg
 
You could also just plug the crank and remove the prop governor on that O-360 and buy a sexy 3-blade Catto fixed pitch prop, and save some weight and get nearly CS performance as well as end up with a lot better prop-ground clearance ;)
 
um, do it

You're getting vans numbers with your 320, and you'll get vans numbers with the 360. Everything else is just folks telling you how to spend your money. My opinion is that you should send your money to me. PM for for address. I need a new EFIS. You? Go hang with some sonex pilots and be top dog.

If for some reason you do not send me your money, enjoy the O-360. I personally think you will enjoy the change to CS prop even more than the extra knots. Go for it. Save our economy!
 
"Bang for the buck" I would suggest go for C/S on the O-320 (but not that one!). Whilst at the optimum point for the FP prop it will not benefit, at all other speeds it will i.e. revolutionise take-off / climb performance, landing perf (drag).

Then look at the O-320:
  1. Is the Sensenich limited to 2600RPM? Just using a 2700RPM prop gives you 5% HP
  2. I presume you have Hi-Comp pistons? If not, +10HP
  3. Fuel Injection? Not really more HP, but other benefits.
  4. Have you got Electronic ignition? P-Mag(s) quick easy to fit - again, no direct HP benefits at top end, but a defintie improvement all round.
Then start scanning this board for other perf "tweaks".

Just some ideas...

Andy
 
Hi,
Someone more knowledgeable can correct me, but I believe that the Hartzell "1BF" series refer to a B hub, which do NOT have the 100 hour AD on them...so your prop may be OK -IF- is indeed a B series hub.
Chris
 
0-360

Gregg -
My situation was a bit different since I had 2800 hrs. on my 160 HP 0-320. I went with an 0-360 A1A and stayed with a fixed pitch prop. I did not see that much performance difference other than it seems to sustain the climb fpm to higher altitudes. I have also flown a 6A with a c/s 0-320 and the acceleration and climb was outstanding. To save time, money and modifications you might want to try flying something with an 0-320 c/s prop and see if that will satisfy your need for take-off performance.

PS - If your 0-320 will not accept a c/s prop then the above will not help.
 
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The h2ad has a solid crank, so no c/s for this engine. I'm gonna research the cost and the implications of the Hartzell, and look a little more for other options, including a 0320 c/s, but the ones I've seen are still around the same $ as the 360.. The 0-360 I have the line on seems like a very well documented overhaul and the price is right. The engine is only 1500 hrs tt. The rebuild is due to a prop strike, but the crank was replace. The prop is almost a "throw in" which is why I'm considering it. I appreciate all the information! If anyone is running this prop I'd love to know how it performs and what is involved in complying with the AD.

Thanks again for all the information.
 
Hi,
Someone more knowledgeable can correct me, but I believe that the Hartzell "1BF" series refer to a B hub, which do NOT have the 100 hour AD on them...so your prop may be OK -IF- is indeed a B series hub.
Chris

The way I understand it, that is not the "B" you're looking for.

The thread at the link below has some good information, the last post especially, and says the relevant B is at the end of the serial number, not in the prop model number.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=11098

And in the OPs 1st post, I'd guess the model number CZK is really a C2K or C2YK, and the number represents the number of blades.

FWIW, I have an O-360 and a Hartzell C/S prop. Those were minimum requirements in my search for a plane, but my home base is 5600'.
 
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Check the record

Go to www.sportairrace.org, click on Records & Stats, click on League Statistics, click on the ...aircraft... sorted file and it will download to your computer. Scroll down the file to the RVs (in alphanumerical order) and you will see what speeds they have achieved in race competition.

Van's did a very good physical test of several propellers on the same airplane years ago and reported the results in the RVator magazine. Great info. I did go from the a standard 72" dia. Hartzell with F7666 blades to a blended airfoil with F7496 blades and confirmed the 3 kt difference in top speed.

Bob Axsom

P.S.
RV Gold = 390 cu in or RV-10 with 540
RV Blue = 360
RV Red = 320

BA
 
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