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RV-7 for a First Plane?

jessebiltz

I'm New Here
Hey all. I'm new to this thread, new to flying, and new to RVs. I'm in the very very very beginning stages of training for my license, but figured out I get somewhat of a "coupon" on a plane if I buy one to train with.

After looking at lots of options, I've settled on the RV line. More specifically, on the RV-7 or 7A. I want a plane I won't get bored with right away, but also something I can grow into. I'm getting mixed reviews on this being my first plane and the one I train in initially.

So, I'd love some feedback. Is this too much plane for a novice? Is it just right for someone who wants to grow into a plane. Couple of factors that might come into play: It's the 360 engine, it has a CS prop, and it's a tail-dragger.

I'm 40, ride motorcycles, love flying, fairly mechanically inclined, and don't love the idea of owning a 172 or Piper.

Thoughts?
 
Hey all. I'm new to this thread, new to flying, and new to RVs. I'm in the very very very beginning stages of training for my license, but figured out I get somewhat of a "coupon" on a plane if I buy one to train with.

After looking at lots of options, I've settled on the RV line. More specifically, on the RV-7 or 7A. I want a plane I won't get bored with right away, but also something I can grow into. I'm getting mixed reviews on this being my first plane and the one I train in initially.

So, I'd love some feedback. Is this too much plane for a novice? Is it just right for someone who wants to grow into a plane. Couple of factors that might come into play: It's the 360 engine, it has a CS prop, and it's a tail-dragger.

I'm 40, ride motorcycles, love flying, fairly mechanically inclined, and don't love the idea of owning a 172 or Piper.

Thoughts?

It sounds like you have a certain plane in mind (360, CS, tailwheel). IMO anything is possible, but that would be a challenging plane to learn in, and would probably take you a good bit longer to finish your training than should you learn in a nose-dragger. The CS prop is not a huge deal, just one more thing you need to think about when you already have a lot on your plate as a new pilot.

Also remember that the RV's are great planes, but they are not built to take the kind of abuse that typical trainers like 172's and pipers take. You will have your share of hard landings - we all did. Why put your new baby through that abuse?

Then remember that insurance costs for a tailwheel airplane with a low-time pilot will be somewhat higher than for a nosewheel as well.

Many people have bought a primary trainer like a 172 or Archer, got their ticket, and then sold it for little or no loss. Then they move up to an RV or whatever they had their heart set on. This is not to discourage you from your plan, just offering some ideas or options.

Good luck!

Chris
 
RV-7 Trainer

Anythings possible. However, you and your CFI will have to work harder. The Nigerian Air Force used about 40 RV-6As in their training fleet (AirBeetles). I have tried to obtain info on how that worked but have been unable. Perhaps Van's can shed light on that project?

Insurance may be interesting since solo flight is a big part of getting a ticket.

The military has produced a lot of pilots in complex aircraft but typically taught the basics in a simpler machine, which is what I would recommend. Even 5-10 hours in a typical trainer might be time well spent before throwing tailwheel, CS prop, High horsepower, complex avionics, etc at you. The physical side of flying is important also. Can you tolerate flight?

The RV-9 is certainly a better airplane for training. You might consider that as a first step.

Here is what I found regarding the RV-6A trainers (Air Beetles) NAF To Resurrect The Air Beetle

"The Nigeria Air Force announced it will put its Air Beetle training aircraft into service again, which have been out of use for over a decade. The Air Beetle is a Van RV-6A; the only kit built aircraft that is used as a military training aircraft. Searching for a suitable trainer that could be assembled in Nigeria using local labour, the Federal Government settled on the RV-6A. Van’s produced 60 kits to fulfill the order and these were assembled in Nigeria, test flown and entered service with the Nigerian Air Force in 1989 as elementary training aircraft under the name Air Beetle. The air training school is based at Kaduna and the aircraft are assembled and maintained by Dornier Aviation Nigeria (DANA)." source=Aviation in Nigeria blog


http://
NAF-076RV-6AAirBeetle.jpg
 
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Low time pilot here (150 ish hours + multi) but now with 25 or so tailwheel and 5 of it Pitts time--learn in a tailwheel if you can. That is the one thing I wish I had done differently. It will make your basic stick and rudder skills better from day 1.
 
Another thought. Finding a CFI willing to instruct in YOUR experimental is one thing. Finding a Designated Pilot Examiner willing to sign you off in any experimental will likely be the hard part. The DPE's seem to just want to fly in certified aircraft.
 
itll work

I just put my Navy Student pilot son in the left seat of my RV7A last weekend after thanksgiving.

We took the wheel pants off before hand cause I figured he would have some less than optimal landings. He had a bunch of decent landings and 2 awefull ones. No harm done and we had a blast.

The RV7A is the easiest plane that I have ever landed, easier than any piper or Cessna to land in my opinion. Van is a genius.

Never been in an RV9 but as easy as the 7 is to land can only imagine it to be almost magic
 
I'd agree with Bugsy. The hardest thing about flying an RV is adjusting from 'truck driving' in certified a/c. If you start with an RV, it won't be hard. Many, many people over the years learned to fly in T-craft, Luscomb 8x's, Cubs, Champs, etc, and for me at least (primary training in a Luscombe 8A), RV's are much easier, simply because they aren't such 'kites' in windy conditions, and are much better at actually going where you point them. Control harmony is better than just about all the 'classics', etc etc.

The points about CFI's & check rides are valid. Where I live, getting instruction would be a piece of cake, but there are areas where no one's willing to even fly in an experimental. I wouldn't worry about the check ride, though. A couple of hours of familiarization in a C150 or C172 at the end (instead of the beginning), and taking the check ride in that, is a small price to pay for having and flying the plane you actually want.

Charlie
 
I think it could be done with the right training. However, I know from my experience I got a pretty intense "a$$ and elbows" feeling when I stepped up to a complex Cutlass172RG. Another thing that no one has mentioned is the increased speed of these birds, things happen a lot faster when you are moving faster. I have not flown a 7 yet but I can attest to complex and increased speed making things more difficult, albeit for a short time until you get used to it. Also, welcome aboard!
 
this topic has been hashed over here many times. it takes a lot to pull the trigger but it is all worth it if you decide to get one. good luck. :)
 
I started training in an A-22 Valor (5-6 hrs) then bought a Cherokee 140 that I leased back to the school. If I weren't an A&P, I would have lost my shirt on the deal, thanks to a number of student pilots that broke things (hard landings, turning off the ignition during mag checks - then back on, etc.).

If I had to do it again, I would have finished my training in the Valor while building or buying my RV-7A. The Cherokee is a great plane but it did not fit my mission of cross-country to visit family, which I only realized after flying in a friend's RV-8. The Cherokee went on the market shortly after that ride but took another year to sell.
 
RV 7

My dad did his training and first solo in a Luscombe 8A in the late 40's. Pretty common then. Then there was the guy who bought a Cessna 195 and learned to fly in it. Then of course there was the much earlier era where everyone learned to fly in a big old biplane with little or no forward visibility. This entire issue has degraded from routine to not recommended to impossible. Baloney!!!
A young man recently got all his flight training, first solo, private checkride in a Vans A model.
Anyone who is an above average motorcycle rider can do tailwheel transition in half the normal hours.
There are LOTS of instructors in the LA area who would instruct you in an RV. A good place to start a search for an instructor would be Sunrise Aviation at John Wayne.
GO FOR IT!!!
 
Absolutely. I should have mentioned this in my previous post: The RV-4 I'm currently flying was built by a guy who formerly built sand rails and restored Corvairs. After he built it, he learned to fly in it. His instructor put him in the back seat, and when he could take off/land using only the back seat rudder pedals for ground control (no brakes or visibility in back), they swapped places. Same way I learned in the Luscombe, which has no brakes on the right side.

Charlie
 
Anythings possible. However, you and your CFI will have to work harder. The Nigerian Air Force used about 40 RV-6As in their training fleet (AirBeetles). I have tried to obtain info on how that worked but have been unable. Perhaps Van's can shed light on that project?

Insurance may be interesting since solo flight is a big part of getting a ticket.
The military has produced a lot of pilots in complex aircraft but typically taught the basics in a simpler machine, which is what I would recommend. Even 5-10 hours in a typical trainer might be time well spent before throwing tailwheel, CS prop, High horsepower, complex avionics, etc at you. The physical side of flying is important also. Can you tolerate flight?

The RV-9 is certainly a better airplane for training. You might consider that as a first step.

This is a good point, at least for the Air Force, newbies are sent to Initial Flight Screening (IFS) and fly the DA-20 for about 15-20 or so hours to learn military patterns, radio/checklist procedures and such. These students then fly through the initial pattern solo and those who complete the course are then sent to their Undgergraduate Pilot Training base, where after Phase I academics/sims and such, are flying the 1100hp T-6 Texan II. So with a solid foundation in a -150 or a Warrior and a good instructor, going the -7 route seems possible. But like all things in life, your mileage may vary and do your homework that the FAA will buy off on your training in the -7 before you plunk down big bucks on an RV.
 
Stitch,

What do you mean about the FAA 'buying off' on the RV? There's no restriction on what you train in. You just can't *rent* a homebuilt. You can certainly *borrow* one to train in, as long as someone is willing to loan it. So using your own homebuilt for training has no restrictions in the regs, other than, for instance, being equipped for the mission (ex: IFR work).

On the subject of transition time/difficulty, one of my earliest aviator friends once wisely told me that it will take you virtually the same number of hours to transition from tricycle to solo in a taildragger, that it would have taken to get from initial training to solo in that same taildragger.

Charlie
 
My thoughts having no experience and not even having my license yet.

It's going to take you a number of years to build your RV7. So why no build and learn to fly it at the same time. In fact getting into the local RV community has been incredibly rewarding, both in the help with building but also I have been able to log a little stick time with the odd ride with a local builder.

Currently I am working on my pilots license right now, maybe I'll be done by the time the RV is ready, maybe i won't. But I tell you this.....seeing a finish line you are way more motivated to work towards that goal and achieve it!

Good luck in your journey!
 
You'll get lots of good input, but on the economic side the cost difference is on the order of $50 per hour not including maintenance, which means your "savings" would be about $3k assuming nothing breaks and needs fixing in that time. In the grand scheme, that's not much and if you include maintenance the savings probably drops off to half that. Throw in the fact that if you rent you don't have the added headache of having to fix anything that breaks during training, the FBO does, you can just concentrate on the flying. If you have to spend your money and mental energy fixing stuff the hours you spend in training will likely go up and it makes the financial argument even less attractive. I'm certainly not saying don't do it, I see no problem with doing it, I just don't think it should be an economic decision. This is coming from someone who used a J5 Cub, Cessna 150, and several Cessna 172's in the training process.

HTH

Tim
 
Me Too!

I am almost new pilot too! Taking my check ride in a week or two! Did my training in a Citabria. I am looking at buying an RV7 from a friend as my first plane too, scary!
Iv'e flown it once with the owner who happens to be a CFI. The plane is so fast compared to my trainer!!! 200hp, CS prop and IFR, looks like I need more training.:D:eek:
 
Something no one asked is, "How often will you fly?". Don't overlook the fixed costs. You live in an expensive area for tie downs and hangars. In CA there's a 1% per year property tax. As a non-builder you need to pay an A&P each year for a condition inspection. And of course, the cost of capital (either the interest you're paying on a loan, or the interest/gains you're foregoing). Add in insurance, too. If you're planing on flying just a hour a week these costs will make gas look like it's free! If you can fly every day, then the average per-hour cost looks more reasonable. (All in comparison to renting a 152).
 
I'm not an RV guy, tho similar, but Id say spend your money on your VFR training first, then decide what you want to fly to expand your ticket(s). Its a fools errand to dismiss how much hard work it is to get and maintain a pilots license. Its not a car, motorcycle, 4-wheeler or boat license. Rem everyone here is already a pilot so we've made the grade. What you dont have here are "all" the folks who for whatever reason didnt complete training. I remember a kid in my first VFR class who thought youd just jump in and go fly. Oh no - ground school was serious work and he was a slacker. He never came back after day 1, not to mention fly.

I'm not saying youre any of that, but dont get the cart in front of the horse. Spend the money, concentrate hard on the books, fly as many days a week as your pocket book allows and ask a sh*t load of airplane questions as you go. Then decide what you want to buy. It might be a Pitts, or a BeechVtail, or who knows - the Starship Enterprise.
Just my .02.
 
I started in a glider. It teaches you to feel the airplane-air speed, angle of attack, buffeting, stalls, spin recovery, slips and basic skills that translate very well to powered flight training. You'll develop the right "instincts". Then move to a taildragger. In the process you'll figure out what plane you want to own. Just my opinion.
 
I say get the training and private pilot license first.

On an hourly basis, the fixed and variable operating cost of owning and flying my -7A with a fixed pitch prop 100 hrs. a year is comparable to renting a basic trainer at $80 - $100/hr. or so.

For the pilot's I've instructed, they took anywhere from 1 month to 1 year to get their licenses, depending upon their motivation and finances. The optimum seemed to be 3 to 4 months, flying 2 to 3 days per week.

If you focus on getting your training and license by flying regularly 2 to 3 days per week, you'll be able to build your knowledge and skill from lesson to lesson. Because you'll remember more from the prior lesson, you'll minimize the time and money to get your license.

Then go shopping to get the plane you want, but pay to get the training to fly it. Growing into a plane as your skill and knowledge increase is a good thing. General aviation is filled with sad tales of owners who bought the plane they could afford, but didn't have the skill to fly.

Mike
 
I am almost new pilot too! Taking my check ride in a week or two! Did my training in a Citabria. I am looking at buying an RV7 from a friend as my first plane too, scary!
Iv'e flown it once with the owner who happens to be a CFI. The plane is so fast compared to my trainer!!! 200hp, CS prop and IFR, looks like I need more training.:D:eek:

Your Citabria training is invaluable. RV's let you get away with murder and can promote poor stick and rudder skills as a result. Try putting your feet flat on the ground and then make a turn around a point with the Citabria. Then try the same thing with the RV7.
You will get my point.
I always encourage new, or soon to be pilots, to get some time in an old and slow vintage tailwheel airplane. You will be a better stick for it.
That said, nothing stopping anyone from learning in a 7 with proper instruction. With the right person training you, you can learn how to be a very good stick, but it wouldn't be my first choice.
 
Crawl, walk, run

A C140, C170, or a Citabria,, get your first 200 hours in one of those first. Then sell and get the RV7
 
Good advice

A C140, C170, or a Citabria,, get your first 200 hours in one of those first. Then sell and get the RV7

I'm with Jay on this one. You can get one of these and sell it later for little to no loss. Sometimes it is tough to coordinate schedules with a free lance instructor. Sometimes it is better to go through a school. See below.

When you get going on your license, commit the money. Find a reputable flight school and buy blocks of time. You'll often get a discount. Fly as often as you can. Many will have a tailwheel plane you can learn in.

RV7 tail draggers come available for sale occasionally. Get a good pre buy done and have an experienced RV person fly it home with you. Go to Oregon or Dallas and get some factory approved transition training. Then, fly your plane with an experience RV pilot for a few hours. Taking it slow will get you to your goal of owning and flying a RV7 without restrictions is the safest possible manner.

Good luck. Do not give up on your dreams.
 
This is a great question. I can tell you that I started my PPL in April 2016 and took my check ride on June 10, 2016. Now, I trained in a Piper Cherokee (PA-28) which was a very stable aircraft to train in. In August 2016 I bought a RV7A and have been flying it ever since. I have not had a single problem flying this plane just make sure you respect the speed and the weight because it is light and a good crosswind will toss you around if you are not prepared. Good Luck on your PPL and Fly Safe!!
 
Rv7 first plane?

I had 300 hours in spam cans before attempting solo control of an RV7A and I found it quite challenging when I did. But then I went and saw Chris Droege in Boise, ID. He got me squared away with the RV and learned me a good bit about airmanship along the way. He's got a transition training course which will allow you to both fully appreciate the feel of the challenge as well as the seasoned guidance I strongly urge you to pursue in answering this substantial question. Find him at [email protected] or check him out at letsflyrvtraining.com

Good Luck

Respectfully
Jeffrey R Hodgson MD
RV7A N377CP KWVI
 
Rv7 first plane?

I had 300 hours in spam cans before attempting solo control of an RV7A and I found it quite challenging when I did. But then I went and saw Chris Droege in Boise, ID. He got me squared away with the RV and learned me a good bit about airmanship along the way. He's got a transition training course which will allow you to both fully appreciate the feel of the challenge as well as the seasoned guidance I strongly urge you to pursue in answering this substantial question. Find him at [email protected] or check him out at letsflyrvtraining.com

Good Luck

Respectfully
Jeffrey R Hodgson MD
RV7A N377CP KWVI
 
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