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  #731  
Old 12-24-2020, 12:06 PM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 6,011
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Most airplane EFI setups feed the pumps with constant battery voltage so delivery is fixed. Return fuel is over 99% at idle and maybe 40-50% of total pump flow at full power.

Partially clogged inlet filters will cause a drop in total flow, usually manifested by a drop in fuel pressure at high power with a return in fuel pressure as power is reduced. They are bad news for pump life as cavitation isn't tolerated well by gerotor or roller vane fuel pumps. Often insidious damage happens which shows up hours later as increased pump noise, making metal and higher current draw.

Only pumps designed for PWM should be used with PWM as motor life can be impacted.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 448.3 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiy...g2GvQfelECCGoQ


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  #732  
Old 12-24-2020, 10:45 PM
12vaitor 12vaitor is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 181
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TI Automotive (Walbro) has some technical papers on their web site, the one on pump pressure suggests using PWM for flow control. I sent them a technical support request to see if that note applies to the GSL series pumps and if there is any issue using a PWM controller with the GSL series pumps. I do not disagree with the comment about adding electronics and reducing reliability, however I would only add the PWM controller to Pump A for normal operations. Pump B is only used if A fails and is powered directly off the 'B' power buss. Same logic applies for the separate pre-filters, if pump A's filter clogs up, the pump B filter should be clean. My mission requirement for pump B is to keep the engine running long enough for a non-emergency landing if pump A fails.

Looking at the GSL393 flow and pressure performance chart, the pump will deliver 10 times the flow I need at 40 psi. The other item to keep in mind is the pumps are running at 14.2 volts, which is additional volume over the 13.5 volt chart line.

I made an in-tank video of the fuel return line in operation after I was able to pump the baffle area at the tank outlet dry with 4 gallons still in the tank. The return line now dumps into the tank outlet baffle area. The pump chart indicates the pump is moving 50 gallons an hour at 40 psi, which means I am cycling all the fuel in the tank through the pre-filter at least 3 times an hour. If I picked up some debris when I refueled, it would not take long to circulate all of it through the filter at that rate.

In any event, lesson learned: if the fuel pressure is below the pressure regulator setting at max/cruise power flow rates its time to check the filters.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
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  #733  
Old 12-25-2020, 08:58 AM
FinnFlyer FinnFlyer is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Bell, FL
Posts: 545
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The GSL393 is really overkill for a 180-200 HP engine.

I'm using a GSL414 for my primary fuel pump and a GSL393 for backup (because I already had it).

GSL414 less current draw, less wasted energy, pumps plenty of fuel for a 180-200 HP engine.

Finn
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  #734  
Old 12-31-2020, 07:28 PM
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charosenz charosenz is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Magnolia KY
Posts: 563
Default cross country follow up

It dawned on me I had not really posted the ending of my cross country flight.

I did reach my destination, M20 in Leitchfield KY on Dec 17th. The last 2 days of the flight the ceiling was very low; fortunately my route included a lot of airports.

All in all the flight was excellent. Very memorable. As far as the engine/gearbox goes, they worked flawlessly. As reported I did add a quart of oil about half way through which was quite unusual. The only squawk, so-to-speak was the stumble in fuel pressure while switching fuel pumps under power. I will add some extra check valves soon to see if that addresses the issue.

I think the route was about 2800 miles. My wife drove a motorhome along the route and her odometer reported 3300 miles.

I typically cruised at 4800 RPM. I used 35" MAP on take off and of course that slowly reduces with altitude.

Someone asked me...."if you were going to do this engine install over again what would you do differently?". Great question and nothing important comes to mind, but I will write something up on this in the future.

Right now I am buried with unpacking and the move across country. I suspect it will be quiet a while before I can justify spending time on the airplane but I am already itching to get in to the air again..

Thank you very much to all who offered so many encouraging words. The support has been great.
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Charlie Rosenzweig
RV6A - Honda (Turbo) engine. Now flying
https://vansairforce.com/community/s...158610&page=70
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  #735  
Old 01-01-2021, 08:54 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Location: Calgary, Canada
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Glad the flight went well and you are at your new home Charlie. You did a good job putting it all together and making it work well. There's a ton of satisfaction in that.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 448.3 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiy...g2GvQfelECCGoQ


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  #736  
Old 01-01-2021, 05:37 PM
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loopfuzz loopfuzz is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: ptown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charosenz View Post
It dawned on me I had not really posted the ending of my cross country flight.
Awesome Charlie.
Just found this thread about your engine and progress you have made. Was looking for videos of it flying. Did you have any?
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  #737  
Old 01-01-2021, 07:08 PM
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charosenz charosenz is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Magnolia KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopfuzz View Post
Awesome Charlie.
Just found this thread about your engine and progress you have made. Was looking for videos of it flying. Did you have any?
Yes, I think post 564 is the first flight vid and 715 is a vid of crossing the rockies. There are several more on Youtube just search for Honda R18 in kitplane. I have a few more if you are really interested PM me.
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Charlie Rosenzweig
RV6A - Honda (Turbo) engine. Now flying
https://vansairforce.com/community/s...158610&page=70
2021 Dues paid
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  #738  
Old 01-14-2021, 04:42 PM
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charosenz charosenz is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Magnolia KY
Posts: 563
Default fuel check valves

I had reported previously that I was experiencing a stumble in the engine when I switching down to one pump after both pumps were running. It is important to know that both pumps ran just fine by themselves, and things ran just fine when both were running.

I surmised that it was back flow causing the pressure to drop.

So I added check-valves on to the outlets of each pumps. Fortunately they make direct 10mm-1.0TP x an6 fittings that screw right in to the outlet of the walbro inline (GSL393) fuel pumps.

The stumble is gone on ground testing today, but I ran out of time to fly.

If I had to do it over again, I would have just bought the SDSEFI dual pump system that is already tried and true. These are beautiful cnc machined housing and can be seen here - http://sdsefi.com/sdsaero.htm - about half way down the webpage.
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Charlie Rosenzweig
RV6A - Honda (Turbo) engine. Now flying
https://vansairforce.com/community/s...158610&page=70
2021 Dues paid
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  #739  
Old 01-23-2021, 05:36 PM
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charosenz charosenz is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Magnolia KY
Posts: 563
Default inflight pics of 327WC

I was able to meet up with some fellow RV fliers in Glasgow KY today.

Here are a couple of pics. The red/white RV6A belongs to Justin Richardson who calls Glasgow - KGLW - home. The blue and white RV7A belongs to Bobby Hester who lives about 45 miles S/W of Glasgow.

The other pic is of my plane N327WC in flight that Justin took as we enjoyed the beautiful weather here today.

All is well with the 1.8L Turbo/Honda installation. I have about 80 hours on it now and it is running great. It would be fun to get the fairings and pants on but we are embarking on building a new home in a month so it is going to be while before some streamlining efforts get underway.

I have the prop pitched to 23 degrees which seems to be what I would call a climb pitch, and I will try 24 degrees someday soon. I understand there is a prop in Australia that will take the warp drive blades and it has a climb pitch and a cruise pitch. I think it is called the airmaster. I emailed them but I cannot see that they replied. I may try again.

Thanks for all the support on this project. As you can see by the 145000+ views, a lot of people have some degree of curiosity about this Honda Powered RV6A.
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Charlie Rosenzweig
RV6A - Honda (Turbo) engine. Now flying
https://vansairforce.com/community/s...158610&page=70
2021 Dues paid

Last edited by charosenz : 01-23-2021 at 05:41 PM. Reason: add the 2nd pic
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  #740  
Old 01-23-2021, 06:07 PM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
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Airmaster props are popular with the Rotax folks.

A buddy has one on his 914 powered Rans, works well.

Electric control, so will work just fine with your Honda.

Pretty much same operation as a traditional C/S prop.
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Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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