Carling Rockers at a Toggle Switch

Working on panel design and pretty sure I will use Carling Rocker switches. Ideally, I want to configure the momentary switch for various circuits as a toggle switch. Example: OFF-(ON) for a NAV light. OFF is the normal state, when you press the switch down the nav lights come one (and the dependent LED turns on). When you release the switch, it goes back to center and the nav lights stay on. When you want to turn off, you again press the switch down and the NAV lights turn off (as well as the dependent LED). I think the proper term for this is using a momentary switch as a toggle switch. As the switch is not a 3 way, I am not sure how people implement this. Is it done with a special relay? Are they adding additional logic or just wiring the switch in a way I don't yet understand? Thanks is advance.

You'll need some kind of circuit in addition to the momentary switch to take care of the "logic" in switching states. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do this, when the Carling switches are designed to be used as toggles internally anyway? Why not just push on the "on" side of the switch to turn the nav lights on, and the "off" side of the switch to turn them off?

Snowflake said:

You'll need some kind of circuit in addition to the momentary switch to take care of the "logic" in switching states. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do this, when the Carling switches are designed to be used as toggles internally anyway? Why not just push on the "on" side of the switch to turn the nav lights on, and the "off" side of the switch to turn them off?

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I am sure that I am overthinking it, but thought that pushing a switch into a momentary position to turn something on and off is more deliberate than just pushing the switch to a different position (less chance of inadvertently turning it off by bumping it). I realize the indent is very obvious on the switch and not very likely to "bump" it off, so probably not necessary. I thought many were wiring the switch to do exactly what I was referring to, but guess I am wrong.

FWIW switches are the most basic "binary logic" that humans know of. Either ON or OFF. Don't over complicate something that is very simple.

I think what you want is a "latching switch". BWTHDIK

R7237 said:

I am sure that I am overthinking it, but thought that pushing a switch into a momentary position to turn something on and off is more deliberate than just pushing the switch to a different position (less chance of inadvertently turning it off by bumping it). I realize the indent is very obvious on the switch and not very likely to "bump" it off, so probably not necessary. I thought many were wiring the switch to do exactly what I was referring to, but guess I am wrong.

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One of the reasons people use toggle switches (or rockers) is that at a glance you can see the state of the switch. You know, that when the switch is "up" it's on. In your setup, you'll need to look at it long enough to see if it's the right colour, or if it's lit up, etc. You become reliant on more equipment that you can't see (LED, relay, wiring) and thereby increase your risk of both a failure, and a failure that you can't detect.

Some even say the Carling and AeroLed style switches are less safe because the change in state from on to off isn't as prominent visually when compared to a toggle switch.

I prefer toggle switches over Rockers. In formation flight, switch actuation is normally done by feel. Feeling a Rocker switch may invite an unwelcome response. Feeling a toggle switch gives a positive indication of whether it is turned on or not, without accidental consequences.

I have a couple of three position toggles that are special. They can be positioned in an in-between state and need to be handled delicately or they will cause trouble.

The switches are made by Honeywell.

V

Toggle switches

I used 3-way toggle switches in my 6A as per Aeroelectic recommendations, and they've worked well by saving space and grouping function. I recall buying these direct from Bob Nuckols at the time:

Off-On-Mom switches for:
Fuel pump off - On - Prime
Ign off - On - Start
Mag off - On - Start

Off-On-On switch for:
Master off - On - Alternator field

I used automotive blade fuses for everything except the Lightspeed ignition, which has a CB as per manufacturer's (strong) recommendations.

Mike
G-RVCE

As others have mentioned, the concept of a momentary switch causing a "latched" operating condition is a pretty concept in the abstract but very dangerous in practical application. I would highly recommend against considering it - here's why.

We have, as an aviation community, trained with the most basic forms of feedback loops. Action, tactile feedback, visual or tactile confirmation. The momentary switch provides the tactile feedback part of the loop, but robs the pilot of the visual and tactile confirmation.

As others have pointed out, we want to be able to "feel" the position of a switch. Whether it's because we're busy looking outside or because we've lost cockpit lighting, that tactile confirmation is VITAL.

For years we have struggled in the design of cockpit displays which use a menu-driven approach. Why? Simply because items which are buried in menus are NOT available to the pilot for immediate visual confirmation.

Don't take something as beautifully simple as a toggle switch and mess it up with fancy electronics that work behind the scenes. Doing so may make a gee-whiz looking cockpit but will leave you with a significantly increased level of risk through inability to "blindly" confirm switch positions. Please, just don't do it.

Reminds me of an RV in the other day that had infinity grips on both sides and the fuel pump was run by one of the buttons on each grip. After working in the airplane for a while I turn on the master and the FP runs but I don't know which switch is controlling it, so now I'm going back and forth between the 2 switches trying to figure out the right combination to turn the pump off, I thought to myself how stupid is this

I also prefer toggle over rockers, and locking toggle over standard toggle.

Many options, here is the series I’m using of late: https://www.alliedelec.com/product/nkk-switches/s6al/70192232/

They are available in various configurations.

Carl