At least a completed RV is a tangible asset. Can't say the same for a closet full of shoes (at least that is what I tell her
)
Van's Air Force
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costing breakdown
- Thread starter smenkhare
- Start date
At least a completed RV is a tangible asset. Can't say the same for a closet full of shoes (at least that is what I tell her
)Captain Avgas
Well Known Member
This is a very novel and enlightening thread. I have been a member of VansAirforce since its inception (and the Matronics RV forum before that). I go back a long way and this is the first thread I have ever seen that deals with the true cost of building any RV model in an honest way.
Over the years I've seen numerous threads on "Cheapest RV built" but nary a single thread on "Most expensive RV built". There's a reason for that.
I suspect the continued emphasis on underestimating the true cost of building comes about for two reasons. On the one hand we have a pervasive culture in the amateur built fraternity that deems it highly desirable to actively proselytize for converts (the more-the-merrier mentality). As a result discussions on the true costs of building have been discouraged and builders who have publicly suggested that it is a relatively expensive game to build an RV have been made to feel like heretics. This is the politics of deception.
On the other hand newbies and early builders just love to read threads about how RVs can be built for absurdly low sums. It doesn't matter that the build costs are quoted in 1990 dollars, the plane is unpainted, and the engine and prop are run-outs. For many, the fiction is just so much more financially palatable than the facts. This is the politics of self deception.
Many components supplied in Vans kits are of of such poor quality that upgrades for many items are now a defacto standard. Consider the stainless heater box, the Andair fuel valve, the Steinair air vents...and many, many more. How many newbies have these in their budgets.
Also missing from the budget will be the Kroger cockpit sunshade, the aircraft cover, the wheel jack, the tow bar, the cowl inlet bird bungs, the battery charger....I could go on for hours but you get the picture.
Over the years I've seen numerous threads on "Cheapest RV built" but nary a single thread on "Most expensive RV built". There's a reason for that.
I suspect the continued emphasis on underestimating the true cost of building comes about for two reasons. On the one hand we have a pervasive culture in the amateur built fraternity that deems it highly desirable to actively proselytize for converts (the more-the-merrier mentality). As a result discussions on the true costs of building have been discouraged and builders who have publicly suggested that it is a relatively expensive game to build an RV have been made to feel like heretics. This is the politics of deception.
On the other hand newbies and early builders just love to read threads about how RVs can be built for absurdly low sums. It doesn't matter that the build costs are quoted in 1990 dollars, the plane is unpainted, and the engine and prop are run-outs. For many, the fiction is just so much more financially palatable than the facts. This is the politics of self deception.
Many components supplied in Vans kits are of of such poor quality that upgrades for many items are now a defacto standard. Consider the stainless heater box, the Andair fuel valve, the Steinair air vents...and many, many more. How many newbies have these in their budgets.
Also missing from the budget will be the Kroger cockpit sunshade, the aircraft cover, the wheel jack, the tow bar, the cowl inlet bird bungs, the battery charger....I could go on for hours but you get the picture.
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ppilotmike
Well Known Member
I agree with Bob...
As a recent "convert," I agree with Bob that this thread is enlightening to say the least. Someone before put it that we newbies "don't know what we don't know." This is an absolutely true statement. However, while Bob suggests we could all be engaging in potentially unethical recruitment tactics, I pose the following to the group:
1) If we had been exposed to all of the inherent risks of flying at an early age, I mean really exposed: (with graphs and charts and movies about "blood on the tarmac" and such..) would we have jumped at the chance to go flying?
2) If we had been shown the stack of books we would have to read, the complete count of the hours we would have to spend doing research, and the actual statistics (if they existed) showing how many times the average builder will "screw up somthing," would we have felt confident enough to try it ourselves?
3) If we had been told by previous builders all the stories particular to their individual builds (i.e. the time I almost got divorced, the time I almost went bankrupt, the many, many times I almost quit, etc), would we have been so inclined to embark upon our own build, with our own families?
Here's the skinny, as I see it - Everyone concentrates on the positive aspects of a build because that's what we choose to remember (and it's what we SHOULD choose to remember). No one gets out of life alive, and in the end, the experiences are what matters. It's a tough road, but I firmly believe (as I'm sure most successful builders believe) that the best things in life are difficult to attain. If you can't enjoy the journey, or deal with the risk of selling out early, then save your money while sitting on the couch and watching TV for 5 years, go out and buy a 10-15 year old Cirrus (or whatever) and call it good. Perhaps it will be less stressful on your family, perhaps it will be less stressful on your finances, but in my mind, it will MEAN far less to you. That, my dear friends, is why I choose to build, and why I will continue to shamelessly encourage others to build. It's not unethical recruitment, it's getting people excited, making them feel confident in their own abilities and telling them what's possible if they work hard to make it happen. My $0.02.
As a recent "convert," I agree with Bob that this thread is enlightening to say the least. Someone before put it that we newbies "don't know what we don't know." This is an absolutely true statement. However, while Bob suggests we could all be engaging in potentially unethical recruitment tactics, I pose the following to the group:
1) If we had been exposed to all of the inherent risks of flying at an early age, I mean really exposed: (with graphs and charts and movies about "blood on the tarmac" and such..) would we have jumped at the chance to go flying?
2) If we had been shown the stack of books we would have to read, the complete count of the hours we would have to spend doing research, and the actual statistics (if they existed) showing how many times the average builder will "screw up somthing," would we have felt confident enough to try it ourselves?
3) If we had been told by previous builders all the stories particular to their individual builds (i.e. the time I almost got divorced, the time I almost went bankrupt, the many, many times I almost quit, etc), would we have been so inclined to embark upon our own build, with our own families?
Here's the skinny, as I see it - Everyone concentrates on the positive aspects of a build because that's what we choose to remember (and it's what we SHOULD choose to remember). No one gets out of life alive, and in the end, the experiences are what matters. It's a tough road, but I firmly believe (as I'm sure most successful builders believe) that the best things in life are difficult to attain. If you can't enjoy the journey, or deal with the risk of selling out early, then save your money while sitting on the couch and watching TV for 5 years, go out and buy a 10-15 year old Cirrus (or whatever) and call it good. Perhaps it will be less stressful on your family, perhaps it will be less stressful on your finances, but in my mind, it will MEAN far less to you. That, my dear friends, is why I choose to build, and why I will continue to shamelessly encourage others to build. It's not unethical recruitment, it's getting people excited, making them feel confident in their own abilities and telling them what's possible if they work hard to make it happen. My $0.02.
rocketman1988
Well Known Member
Very well put.
RV10inOz
Well Known Member
Agreed Mike, some good points there.
In any business there is a thing called due dilligence when buying anything. Unfortunately when people make emotional purchases, like a Ferarri, there is no due dilligence involved, it is all pure passion of some sort.
Building a $200K plus aeroplane is not unlike a Ferarri purchase, and when you consider the time some people will take building, the cost of capital over that time, the extra depreciation on their cars because they lived outside the garage for 5 years or whatever hidden costs there are, all the hidden costs add up.
Buying a Ferarri is one lump sum up front, until you find out the insurance cost, the gas burn, the service costs per mile they have really expensive tyres and they do not get many miles, they attract all the hot blonde long legged big breated women around town, or at least that is all your wife notices you attracting.
Now how many of us would get away with :Honey, I think I am off to buy that nice red Ferarri" ?
Due dilligence. Fully costed, EYES WIDE OPEN, and a better chance of completing your dreams. If you build over time while you accunulate the next bunch of cash, great, better than borrowing, and you are making progress at the same time, but finding you are $70K short and not likely to find that extra for 7 years is rather soul destroying, and then a half built kit is for sale.
In any business there is a thing called due dilligence when buying anything. Unfortunately when people make emotional purchases, like a Ferarri, there is no due dilligence involved, it is all pure passion of some sort.
Building a $200K plus aeroplane is not unlike a Ferarri purchase, and when you consider the time some people will take building, the cost of capital over that time, the extra depreciation on their cars because they lived outside the garage for 5 years or whatever hidden costs there are, all the hidden costs add up.
Buying a Ferarri is one lump sum up front, until you find out the insurance cost, the gas burn, the service costs per mile
they have really expensive tyres and they do not get many miles, they attract all the hot blonde long legged big breated women around town, or at least that is all your wife notices you attracting.Now how many of us would get away with :Honey, I think I am off to buy that nice red Ferarri" ?
Due dilligence. Fully costed, EYES WIDE OPEN, and a better chance of completing your dreams. If you build over time while you accunulate the next bunch of cash, great, better than borrowing, and you are making progress at the same time, but finding you are $70K short and not likely to find that extra for 7 years is rather soul destroying, and then a half built kit is for sale.
rocketman1988
Well Known Member
Although it would really be nice to have $150k laying around as discretionary income...
Bill.Peyton
Well Known Member
Interesting thread. I'll throw in my 2cents....
I have been flying for 20 yrs now and the entire time I have owned the same 1980 piper archer. I have flown it from coast to coast several times, and gone through almost two engines to TBO. My point being that the fun of flying is just that. Last year I retired from a successful career and new I wanted to get something more than just hanging out. I used to envy those who had spent the time and took the challenge to build their own.
I watched a local guy build a -7 for the last 5 years and decided I was up for the challenge. Thanks to Scott Schmidt for pushing me over the top with letting me fly his -10. The kit was ordered and the journey started.
Here I sit, ready to send the fuse to the paint shop thinking about all of the people I have met and the skills I have acquired. Yes, it was an expensive education, but worth every dollar.
My point is, you can not think of building an aircraft on the same level as simply buying and flying, like i did for the first twenty years. They are entirely different experiences. When you consider spending $175K on a 10, consider that you are getting both an education on aircraft construction and the bonus is, you end up with a really cool airplane to fly.
In regards to the real issue, which is the dollars and time you will spend, make sure you and your family can afford it. You will be spending as much as most will on a house. It is taxing on your spouse and your family and friends. If it all fits, then go for your dream!
I have been flying for 20 yrs now and the entire time I have owned the same 1980 piper archer. I have flown it from coast to coast several times, and gone through almost two engines to TBO. My point being that the fun of flying is just that. Last year I retired from a successful career and new I wanted to get something more than just hanging out. I used to envy those who had spent the time and took the challenge to build their own.
I watched a local guy build a -7 for the last 5 years and decided I was up for the challenge. Thanks to Scott Schmidt for pushing me over the top with letting me fly his -10. The kit was ordered and the journey started.
Here I sit, ready to send the fuse to the paint shop thinking about all of the people I have met and the skills I have acquired. Yes, it was an expensive education, but worth every dollar.
My point is, you can not think of building an aircraft on the same level as simply buying and flying, like i did for the first twenty years. They are entirely different experiences. When you consider spending $175K on a 10, consider that you are getting both an education on aircraft construction and the bonus is, you end up with a really cool airplane to fly.
In regards to the real issue, which is the dollars and time you will spend, make sure you and your family can afford it. You will be spending as much as most will on a house. It is taxing on your spouse and your family and friends. If it all fits, then go for your dream!
CharlieWaffles
Well Known Member
The deal with my wife was we can do what we need with the plane as long as it doesn't siphon off so much money I have to say we have to stop doing something else.
rocketman1988
Well Known Member
Two things that i have learned, so far...
1. You can't justify it. (the airplane)
2. There is NEVER a good time to start.
So yes, do your own due diligence, but realize that you are here on borrowed time...
"...It's the dream afraid of waking
That never takes the chance..."
1. You can't justify it. (the airplane)
2. There is NEVER a good time to start.
So yes, do your own due diligence, but realize that you are here on borrowed time...
"...It's the dream afraid of waking
That never takes the chance..."
Captain Avgas
Well Known Member
Dear Mike, I understand your enthusiasm but, after all, you are still building the empennage. It's easy to be in a constant state of excitement when you're at such a very early stage of the build.... you're still on the honeymoon.
And of course those on the honeymoon are always more inclined to speak favorably about the virtues of marriage.
Bill.Peyton
Well Known Member
Oh yes, the honeymoon years. I remember them well....
Then came the cabin cover and doors.
That is when I knew the honeymoon was officially over.
Then came the cabin cover and doors.
That is when I knew the honeymoon was officially over.
wolfpack21643
Member
Not so popular response
I have been saving and dreaming for the last two years. I have over that time paid off all of my credit card / vehicle debt and I have put enough in the bank to order the entire RV-9A kit. I’m 40 years old and at the age were now is the time to pull the trigger on my kit. I should easily have the ability to put enough away for the engine, instruments etc. during the build. But here’s the rub.
I think the economy is on the edge of the cliff and will tank again sometime in the next five years (my expected build time window). I have been flying all my life and with the cost of aviation rising so much, so quickly I see a death spiral in reference to GA. I remember when not to long ago the airplane parking area at the field restaurant was overflowing on Saturdays and Sundays. Now I bet you on a perfect no wind 80 degree Sat / Sunday you would be lucky to see 10 airplanes all weekend.
I see a lot of government fees coming down the pipe because they are flat broke and must find other ways to pay for their overspending ways. Luxury taxes, airway use fees, hidden fuel charges ect. They will find ways you haven’t even dreamed of yet to fleece you. With a shrinking pilot base and the fact that airplanes are kept in good flying condition for 40 years or more I see the time in the not to distant future where there are three used aircraft for every one buyer out there. I have watched Trade A Plane get thicker and thicker over the last several years so maybe it’s already happening.
I believe building an airplane right now is a bad financial decision FOR ME. I believe you will see the time when you’re RV will only be worth half of what you have in it. I think you might see the day when you can buy a good used RV 6 for $25,000 or an Rv 8 for $35,000. There will always be wealthy people to buy airplanes but the middle class such as people like me are starting to get pushed out of aviation and once were gone we will be gone for good. And I figure that the middle class makes up a large portion of the kit plane world. So that will make engines and the like even more expensive. I think the country has gotten to a stage were boats, airplanes and such are getting to the point were not just buying them is expensive but the up keep and use is getting too much to stomach. Think $500 hamburger.
I made the decision to pull the pin and move my money into precious metals and such. No RV for me. I will keep flying at work and be happy with that. So I guess the cost has finally got to where this $100,000 a year family income with only a $1000 a month house payment for bills cant afford to build a airplane. I don’t want to be stuck with a hunk of aluminum sitting in my garage with little or no value.
I wanted to build for the experience and education but it is not cost effective anymore and buying one already built would be the smart money choice. But I think I will hold off on that also. I was never under the illusion that building was cheaper then buying outright but I think I would not be able to recover enough of my investment on a build once I needed to sell my finished airplane. And I fear the flying and upkeep will keep climbing out of reach for me also.
And for those of you who don’t see it this way that’s fine but the next time you go to the grocery store look at the food on the shelf. You will see the cheap ramen noodle type foods are mostly gone. The food on sale will have a dent in it also. The full price food will be fully stocked because people can’t afford to buy it. The media can lie about the “great recovery” but all of the warning signs are there if you choose to look.
I have been saving and dreaming for the last two years. I have over that time paid off all of my credit card / vehicle debt and I have put enough in the bank to order the entire RV-9A kit. I’m 40 years old and at the age were now is the time to pull the trigger on my kit. I should easily have the ability to put enough away for the engine, instruments etc. during the build. But here’s the rub.
I think the economy is on the edge of the cliff and will tank again sometime in the next five years (my expected build time window). I have been flying all my life and with the cost of aviation rising so much, so quickly I see a death spiral in reference to GA. I remember when not to long ago the airplane parking area at the field restaurant was overflowing on Saturdays and Sundays. Now I bet you on a perfect no wind 80 degree Sat / Sunday you would be lucky to see 10 airplanes all weekend.
I see a lot of government fees coming down the pipe because they are flat broke and must find other ways to pay for their overspending ways. Luxury taxes, airway use fees, hidden fuel charges ect. They will find ways you haven’t even dreamed of yet to fleece you. With a shrinking pilot base and the fact that airplanes are kept in good flying condition for 40 years or more I see the time in the not to distant future where there are three used aircraft for every one buyer out there. I have watched Trade A Plane get thicker and thicker over the last several years so maybe it’s already happening.
I believe building an airplane right now is a bad financial decision FOR ME. I believe you will see the time when you’re RV will only be worth half of what you have in it. I think you might see the day when you can buy a good used RV 6 for $25,000 or an Rv 8 for $35,000. There will always be wealthy people to buy airplanes but the middle class such as people like me are starting to get pushed out of aviation and once were gone we will be gone for good. And I figure that the middle class makes up a large portion of the kit plane world. So that will make engines and the like even more expensive. I think the country has gotten to a stage were boats, airplanes and such are getting to the point were not just buying them is expensive but the up keep and use is getting too much to stomach. Think $500 hamburger.
I made the decision to pull the pin and move my money into precious metals and such. No RV for me. I will keep flying at work and be happy with that. So I guess the cost has finally got to where this $100,000 a year family income with only a $1000 a month house payment for bills cant afford to build a airplane. I don’t want to be stuck with a hunk of aluminum sitting in my garage with little or no value.
I wanted to build for the experience and education but it is not cost effective anymore and buying one already built would be the smart money choice. But I think I will hold off on that also. I was never under the illusion that building was cheaper then buying outright but I think I would not be able to recover enough of my investment on a build once I needed to sell my finished airplane. And I fear the flying and upkeep will keep climbing out of reach for me also.
And for those of you who don’t see it this way that’s fine but the next time you go to the grocery store look at the food on the shelf. You will see the cheap ramen noodle type foods are mostly gone. The food on sale will have a dent in it also. The full price food will be fully stocked because people can’t afford to buy it. The media can lie about the “great recovery” but all of the warning signs are there if you choose to look.
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Wayne Gillispie
Well Known Member
I have posted this before...Like Wolfpack we were debt free at age 38 and also under six figures a year with a stress free job. Did without many of the things most people just had and still have to have...new cars/big house/four cell phones/latest electronics/annual vacations/300 tv channels/eating out daily to reach our final goal. Self employed, no retirement, no silver in the vault, still in descent health...41 now, me and my family are going to start flying the heck out of this -10 starting the end of May. I love my job, love paying lots of taxes, love not being on govt aid and am really going to love burning all of that 100LL. I know someone that has lots of silver saved up, constantly worrying about the "end" but wishing he could fly around the country in a four place with his family too. If the time comes we can't afford $15-$20,000/year to hanger/maintain/fly this puppy, I will try a partnership first, sell it second or bring it home where it was born and remember all of the wonderful family trips we took in it and people we met. We did not build it for the $200 hamburger run, not that it won't see a few of those. See you guys at Oshkosh- HBC!
Man, that was a downer.
When I was building mine in 2009-2011, I thought the general aviation was coming to an end. It was the same news, actually worse than the news now. I kept thinking there is no way to pay for my hobby with parts, hangar and fuel cost rising. I look back now with only 200 hours and I made the right decision for a middle class family. The memories so far will never be forgotten, some of the best were flying my wife to Oshkosh twice and Johnson Creek with Scott S and Tim O, formation flying. You can't put a price on that. The skills I learned and the friends I meet. Taking young kids up and watching their faces light up.
Even if I had to sell the plane now, it was all worth it.
When I was building mine in 2009-2011, I thought the general aviation was coming to an end. It was the same news, actually worse than the news now. I kept thinking there is no way to pay for my hobby with parts, hangar and fuel cost rising. I look back now with only 200 hours and I made the right decision for a middle class family. The memories so far will never be forgotten, some of the best were flying my wife to Oshkosh twice and Johnson Creek with Scott S and Tim O, formation flying. You can't put a price on that. The skills I learned and the friends I meet. Taking young kids up and watching their faces light up.
Even if I had to sell the plane now, it was all worth it.
dhmoose
Well Known Member
Amen
Haha! I couldn't agree more! I'm fighting the cabin cover and doors like an old married couple fights each other!
Haha! I couldn't agree more! I'm fighting the cabin cover and doors like an old married couple fights each other!
Wayne Gillispie
Well Known Member
Could not agree more Sean. We have a cold and warm front fighting it out over the Ohio river(20 nm N). Warm front winning right now but cold front starting to push back South. Tomorrow warm front supposed to go back North. Between the two...dang I was getting depressed. The man has to do what is best for his family and situation. Good luck to him.
I have only made three 129 nm(one way) trips with the family so far. Many more to come this summer. We could not imagine doing anything else more fun. Well, on second thought.
We made a list of goals 23 years ago in this order. Get married at 18 years old; get an education; get an enjoyable job; buy a new car to keep 12 yrs(yep, on our 2nd vehicle each); build our own house; have a boy and girl; build a shop; start my own hvac business; ppl; build our own plane. You have to love our freedoms in this country...just try to avoid negative news(99%), internet sites and people. Anything is possible if you stick with it, work hard and have a like minded person by your side. I love my family and our RV-10.
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pierre smith
Well Known Member
The sky is definitely not falling.
I'm one of those "the glass is half full" types as well.
During the Arab oil embargo in 1973, avgas went from, 35 cents/ gal to 67 cents doubling! My boss ordered a tanker of avgas for his 5 Cessna Agwagons and stored it in underground tanks and his three B-26's!
We raised our spraying prices from $1.00/acre to $1.25 an acre and man, did the farmers complain.
Today our avgas price is $5.89/gal and guess what? My glass is still half full and just yesterday, enjoyed the Rhodes's family barbeque in north Georgia...so graciously hosted...Thank you all
Don't read naysayer posts..the sky is not falling. I'm now nearly 67 and having a ball with life!
Best,
I'm one of those "the glass is half full" types as well.
During the Arab oil embargo in 1973, avgas went from, 35 cents/ gal to 67 cents
doubling! My boss ordered a tanker of avgas for his 5 Cessna Agwagons and stored it in underground tanks and his three B-26's!We raised our spraying prices from $1.00/acre to $1.25 an acre and man, did the farmers complain.
Today our avgas price is $5.89/gal and guess what? My glass is still half full and just yesterday, enjoyed the Rhodes's family barbeque in north Georgia...so graciously hosted...Thank you all
Don't read naysayer posts..the sky is not falling. I'm now nearly 67 and having a ball with life!
Best,
Lest I be understood to be down on kit building or buying planes, I'll add my 2 cents in to the recent trend in the thread also...
My real concern for those potential builders is that they know that they can financially finish the kit, and fly it a while. Once they get that far, one of two things will happen. They will A) find out they can't afford it as well as they thought, and slow their flying, or possibly sell their completed kit, or more likely B) they will prioritize their life a little more around their awesome machine and enjoy it. I don't want to see someone get in and fail at completing their kit, but if they truly have the income to build and support it, hey, the ride is far more awesome than they'd ever imagine.
My thoughts are like Wayne....get the family in the plane, and get out and see the world. I rarely fly for short local hops...that's not what an RV-10 was made for. If that were my flying style I'd have bought some other type of kit. The RV-10 is made to go places....and that's what I've been doing. I've now made it to 48 of the 50 states (Yes, I'm giving an honorary checkmark to Hawaii....I went there, brought a piece of the plane with me because sadly I just don't think flying to Hawaii is for me...and flew around the islands with that piece in hand) So I've got 2 more states to hit with the plane. My kids have been to 49 states, and so would the plane had I taken the time to land in Washington state. To me, bad economy be damned. Anything can happen to me at any time. I can lose my income, my limbs, or my life, but so long as my family survives, I'm giving them experiences that can't be taken away. Yeah, I'll be pretty sad if 20 years from now the kids tell their kids "back then we used to be able to fly airplanes around"....but, I think part of giving people the drive to succeed is giving them something to dream about succeeding FOR! I think we should be taking every non-pilot we can out for a trip, or a ride...using our planes to keep showing the world what *is* possible if someone puts their mind to it. It's too easy for them to be lulled into a passive lifestyle...and be happy as they are. By showing them there is more to life than work and TV, we're helping drive them, and drive the economy. So unless the cash in your bank account (or gold/silver) is cash you really can't afford to lose, a certain amount of life needs to be LIVED....and an airplane isn't the worst place to store your money. You may lose some or all of it, but you will be paid back many fold in experiences.
Back on the pre-building part of the thread...I should add about marriage: Make sure that your spouse has at least 50% of the love for the kit and what it will do for you as you do. A supportive spouse will be a tremendous asset, but a non-supportive or anti-supportive spouse will bring you disappointment even after you finish your kit if she's unwilling to use it with you. I'm pretty passionate about flying, and I'm thrilled my wife is. I honestly think if she wasn't, that push would come to shove and I'd replace my wife. <gulp> That's a tough pill to swallow, but if having an RV as a toy is going to do nothing but make your spouse angry, you are probably going to have enough friction that you'll have to choose one over the other some day anyway. Luckily finding someone with similar enjoyments was at the top of my list when I was wife shopping.
Anyway, if you finish an RV-10, and your family is on board with the whole deal, there is no way you'll be disappointed with your choice to build.
My real concern for those potential builders is that they know that they can financially finish the kit, and fly it a while. Once they get that far, one of two things will happen. They will A) find out they can't afford it as well as they thought, and slow their flying, or possibly sell their completed kit, or more likely B) they will prioritize their life a little more around their awesome machine and enjoy it. I don't want to see someone get in and fail at completing their kit, but if they truly have the income to build and support it, hey, the ride is far more awesome than they'd ever imagine.
My thoughts are like Wayne....get the family in the plane, and get out and see the world. I rarely fly for short local hops...that's not what an RV-10 was made for. If that were my flying style I'd have bought some other type of kit. The RV-10 is made to go places....and that's what I've been doing. I've now made it to 48 of the 50 states (Yes, I'm giving an honorary checkmark to Hawaii....I went there, brought a piece of the plane with me because sadly I just don't think flying to Hawaii is for me...and flew around the islands with that piece in hand) So I've got 2 more states to hit with the plane. My kids have been to 49 states, and so would the plane had I taken the time to land in Washington state. To me, bad economy be damned. Anything can happen to me at any time. I can lose my income, my limbs, or my life, but so long as my family survives, I'm giving them experiences that can't be taken away. Yeah, I'll be pretty sad if 20 years from now the kids tell their kids "back then we used to be able to fly airplanes around"....but, I think part of giving people the drive to succeed is giving them something to dream about succeeding FOR! I think we should be taking every non-pilot we can out for a trip, or a ride...using our planes to keep showing the world what *is* possible if someone puts their mind to it. It's too easy for them to be lulled into a passive lifestyle...and be happy as they are. By showing them there is more to life than work and TV, we're helping drive them, and drive the economy. So unless the cash in your bank account (or gold/silver) is cash you really can't afford to lose, a certain amount of life needs to be LIVED....and an airplane isn't the worst place to store your money. You may lose some or all of it, but you will be paid back many fold in experiences.
Back on the pre-building part of the thread...I should add about marriage: Make sure that your spouse has at least 50% of the love for the kit and what it will do for you as you do. A supportive spouse will be a tremendous asset, but a non-supportive or anti-supportive spouse will bring you disappointment even after you finish your kit if she's unwilling to use it with you. I'm pretty passionate about flying, and I'm thrilled my wife is. I honestly think if she wasn't, that push would come to shove and I'd replace my wife. <gulp> That's a tough pill to swallow, but if having an RV as a toy is going to do nothing but make your spouse angry, you are probably going to have enough friction that you'll have to choose one over the other some day anyway. Luckily finding someone with similar enjoyments was at the top of my list when I was wife shopping.
Anyway, if you finish an RV-10, and your family is on board with the whole deal, there is no way you'll be disappointed with your choice to build.
ppilotmike
Well Known Member
Loving the honeymoon and preparing for the marriage..
Bob,
I agree with your assessment, that I am "in the honeymoon phase." I have been with my lovely wife now for 10 years now, married for almost 7. Four months ago we had our first child, so with regards to the "building a plane analogy" I'd say we're working on the canopy right now, while trying to save money/worrying about the new "engine" costs. It's a very good analogy, and one that I'd like to take further below. Right or wrong, here's what I think are good thoughts on Building a Marriage/Plane.
1) Enjoy the heck out of the honeymoon, and remember it later when passion starts to wane, so you remember how to bring it back to your "marriage."
2) Be honest about the needs of the "project", financially, time-wise and emotionally, but don't dwell on the "loss of supposed freedom."
3) Avoid doing something stupid by first adequately assessing the situation and potentially asking/posting for advice from those who have gone before.
4) Be mindful of how you discuss your "marriage" with others, and remember that you are helping to shape their ideas about "marriage."
5) Dream and set goals for a positive future and always try to see the glass as half-full. God lays the path; we only do the walking.
6) Do what you love, love what you're doing and love those who are doing it with you.
With lessons still to be learned, that's my $0.02, for now..
Bob,
I agree with your assessment, that I am "in the honeymoon phase." I have been with my lovely wife now for 10 years now, married for almost 7. Four months ago we had our first child, so with regards to the "building a plane analogy" I'd say we're working on the canopy right now, while trying to save money/worrying about the new "engine" costs. It's a very good analogy, and one that I'd like to take further below. Right or wrong, here's what I think are good thoughts on Building a Marriage/Plane.
1) Enjoy the heck out of the honeymoon, and remember it later when passion starts to wane, so you remember how to bring it back to your "marriage."
2) Be honest about the needs of the "project", financially, time-wise and emotionally, but don't dwell on the "loss of supposed freedom."
3) Avoid doing something stupid by first adequately assessing the situation and potentially asking/posting for advice from those who have gone before.
4) Be mindful of how you discuss your "marriage" with others, and remember that you are helping to shape their ideas about "marriage."
5) Dream and set goals for a positive future and always try to see the glass as half-full. God lays the path; we only do the walking.
6) Do what you love, love what you're doing and love those who are doing it with you.
With lessons still to be learned, that's my $0.02, for now..
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do not go into debt
it took me a while to convince myself but i am finally in peace about my decision. I would love to build rv10 but settled for rv7a, it is cheaper. i love to have glass cockpit, but i am going with old gauges and a cheap AP from dynon that i will use for EFIS too. a cheap gps and nav com. minimum lighting to make rv fly at night. O360, fixed pitch. that is it. So the rule is if you cannot wasily afford it, do not borrow and do not get it. I would rather fly a plane that is paid for (or in large paid for) than to realize that i cannot afford this incredibly sophisticated machine that i have and end up selling.
it took me a while to convince myself but i am finally in peace about my decision. I would love to build rv10 but settled for rv7a, it is cheaper. i love to have glass cockpit, but i am going with old gauges and a cheap AP from dynon that i will use for EFIS too. a cheap gps and nav com. minimum lighting to make rv fly at night. O360, fixed pitch. that is it. So the rule is if you cannot wasily afford it, do not borrow and do not get it. I would rather fly a plane that is paid for (or in large paid for) than to realize that i cannot afford this incredibly sophisticated machine that i have and end up selling.
RV10inOz
Well Known Member
Now if only you could convince the Governments of the world to do the same.
On the instruments, All you need is a Dynon D180, and Garmin 2/3/496 or aera GPS, and a radio and transponder. Steam gauges etc are not cheaper overall. The D180 will drive the two servo's from Dynon.
job done!
On the instruments, All you need is a Dynon D180, and Garmin 2/3/496 or aera GPS, and a radio and transponder. Steam gauges etc are not cheaper overall. The D180 will drive the two servo's from Dynon.
job done!
Randy Means
Member
RV10 true cost
It never will be less expensive to build than now. Cost is in the eye of the beholder much like a diamond, many different costs but all are diamonds.
It never will be less expensive to build than now. Cost is in the eye of the beholder much like a diamond, many different costs but all are diamonds.
