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Superior IO360

randyintejas

randyintejas

Well Known Member
Talked with Barrett engines in Tulsa today so I could figure out how much $ I am going to need and all I can say is OUCH!
Looking at a Superior IO360XP with rollers and AFP forward FI. The warranty is 2 ? yrs or 400hrs form engine start and they test for 1 hour on their Dyno for $28,950.
Lead time of 12 weeks
My questions are.. Is this the prices others are now seeing, what cowl setup will I need to do for forward induction and am I any better off going with a Lyc form Vans at this price?
 
Engine Prices

Barrett assembles a great engine and the price you quote is competitive for a custom engine; see prices at:

www.aerosportpower.com or

www.lycoming.com/thunderbolt/index.html for examples.

Van's prices are good...and they may have a discount at Oshkosh (they have for the past several years); if you combine a prop and engine order the savings can be significant.

Cowl setup for the Barrett would be Van's cowl for horizontal induction (no scoop) or other (James, Showplanes, etc.) custom cowl. Depends on what you want/like.

Mike
 
It might be a bit cheaper direct from Superior, but that's in the ballpark. I love my Superior XPIO-360, though I don't have the horizontal sump. When a broken starter chewed up my ring gear, they replaced it at no charge even in the middle of their parent company's bankruptcy. And it says something that they are back. I built my engine at the build school and got a good look at the internals plus a hands-on explanation of all the modifications from the stock Lycoming design. I'm convinced; if they made an XPIO-540, it would be going in my -10.
 
About $28.5-30K is going price for such an engine nowadays.

You'll definitely want the cold air induction too, and also perhaps piston oil squirters. If equipped with squirters, you'll need to plan on a big oil cooler too (min 9-10 rows, e.g. SW 10599R or SW8432R) but it'll really help with CHTs and oil temps flying in Texas.

The RV-8 in my avatar has an ECI IO-360 (190+hp) from America's Aircraft Engines in Tulsa, with 9.2:1 pistons, roller, oil squirters, taper-fin cyl barrels, and the ECI constant-flow "Titan EXP" fuel injection system, all turning a 74" Hartzell blended airfoil prop. It leaps off the ground almost instantly, climbs like a solid fuel rocket, and cruises at 205MPH TAS @ 7500MSL effortlessly. I wouldn't necessarily recommend the ECI fuel injection system because it was expensive, difficult to plumb (requires high-dollar Andair duplex fuel valve with return lines run to both tanks) and it was difficult to calibrate until we found a mechanic who was familiar with the Continental FI system on Beech Debonairs and C210s (from which the ECI system design is derived) who knew how to calibrate it for us. It works fantastic now, but you can get the same performance with AFP FI for less money and less installation hassle.

You might consider calling America's Aircraft Engines for a quote too, but I'd bet it'll be just about the same amount as Barrett or Aerosport prices.

On an RV-7 or RV-8, I'd rather have a Barrett/Aerosport/Americas engine than a factory stock Lycoming. A factory Lyc may be a solid engine, but will be "ho-hum" compared to one of the specialty engines.

PS: make sure to get chrome valve covers too, those are not only eye candy for when you've got the cowl off and everybody is drooling over the engine, but will give you an extra 5 knots on the top end too ;) :p :D
 
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Don't wait too long to buy

Engine prices continue to go up. I just noticed Aerosport Power's O-360 prices went up about 2K. A year ago, I started looking and decided on either Mattituck or Aerosport. When Mattituck went up about 4K, I put my deposit with Aerosport who had only gone up about 1K from when I started looking. Now they've gone up another 2K. I only point out Mattituck and Aerosport because I'm familiar with them but I imagine other engine builders/sellers have had similiar increases.
 
Barrett is competitive

I am eagerly awaiting my soon-to-be-built Superior IO-360 from Barrett Precision Engines!:D I also did a lot of comparison shopping... but I found that with Barrett I specified everything the way I want it and I will get their expertise/testing/support, etc. for pretty much the same money. I've also heard several RV owners who say their next engine will be from Barrett.:rolleyes: Just my 2 cents...
 
randyintejas said:
.... any better off going with a Lyc form Vans at this price?
Click to expand...

I am capable of building my own engine, and could have bought a factory engine. I ordered new from my favorite engine builder for two reasons. First, they have equipment (for example, a Schneck crank balance machine) not available to me. Second, and more important, an independent builder provides a quality control check. Plain fact; in the not too distant past brand new Lycoming parts were coming out of the box, getting measured, and being sent back as unacceptable.

I have seen my share of factory errors in cars, bikes, and airplanes. At these dollar levels I like having somebody on my side.

For your amusement, a favorite photo from the car business here at PHAC. This is a GM part. Look close inside the brazed-on hose fitting.

w2i15k.jpg
 
Brazed-on hose fitting .... really?!

Am I seeing what I think I'm seeing ... no hole in the tubing that it was brazed to?
 
Dan's car part:

The hole wasn't drilled after brazing.

But you know, garbage disposals come that way on purpose -- you are supposed to punch out the center plug during installation if you are going to hook up a dish washer drain. Really funny how often do-it-yourselfers miss that and have an interesting experience the first time they run the dishwasher.
 
Warrenty

You may find Supperiors warrenty document SWP001 helpful. Pay close attension to the part titled Reciprocating Engines
 
I was quite happy with my Superior IO360 until the rocker bosses broke on the #2 cylinder at 337 hours and Superior was out of business.... the cause of the failure was never really determined, though I did have a slightly bent pushrod, so the presumption has been that the valve stuck. I'm still not unhappy with the engine, but I ended up with an ECI cylinder (Superior was out of business) and the engine has not really run quite the same since the cylinder failure.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=66233&highlight=rocker

YMMV

Greg
 
scsmith said:
The hole wasn't drilled after brazing.

But you know, garbage disposals come that way on purpose -- you are supposed to punch out the center plug during installation if you are going to hook up a dish washer drain. Really funny how often do-it-yourselfers miss that and have an interesting experience the first time they run the dishwasher.
Click to expand...

DIY'er? when I had my kitchen redone the contractor forgot to punch it out. I make sure he hears about it ever chance I can.
 
airguy said:
What is the going rate for the ECI kit now?
Click to expand...

All in, about 22.5k for superior kit, ECI cylinders, and all accessories. 19.5k wihout accessories for ECI. When I spoke to the assemblers they quoted in the 28-30k range for completed and tested engine. When I said I wanted to participate in the assembly, they either said absolutely not or I could watch without touching a tool. When asked how long the assembly would take they said about a day which is what my A&P said as well. So, 8k+ for a single day of assembly. Seemed a bit high to me.
 
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ColoRv said:
All in, about 22.5k for superior kit, ECI cylinders, and all accessories. 19.5k wihout accessories for ECI. When I spoke to the assemblers they quoted in the 28-30k range for completed and tested engine. When I said I wanted to participate in the assembly, they either said absolutely not or I could watch without touching a tool. When asked how long the assembly would take they said about a day which is what my A&P said as well. So, 8k+ for a single day of assembly. Seemed a bit high to me.
Click to expand...

It takes Barrett a lot more than a day to balance all the parts, assemble an engine, mount it to the dyno and run it for about an hour. Eight grand may seem a lot but there is also a lot of equipment involved to do the job right plus people like Rhonda at the front desk who need to earn a living and a building to maintain. :)

You get what you pay for in this business. Their is plenty of competition.
 
I will be placing my order with Barrett next week. I have talked to a lot of people and everyone that has dealt with Barrett has been very happy with the quality of the build and the performance
 
Oil Squirters

I have a Superior XP IO360 which I built up in 2006 from their kit on an RV-8. I have the 8.5-1 cylinders and according to the assembly instructions, they said the oil squirters were not required so I installed the plugs where they would be. Long story but am doing an overhaul and trying to decide what would happen if I install the squirters now. What would be the advantage if I did? I have heard it will cause the engine to run hotter. I have a Pacific Air 9 row oil cooler and the oil temps would run a little high during the summer 210-230 depending on how hard I am working the engine during formation and air show work. 190-200 during most low altitude maneuvering. I fly out of Colorado and in climbs in summer the cylinder temps will approach 450 on 2 & 4 but cool off as soon as I increase the A/S or power reduced. Just looking for some comments or experience anyone has had with and without the squirters installed. Thanks :)
 
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