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Lyco .v. Titan... put it all on the table!

JeremyL

Well Known Member
Hey everyone, I’m just dipping my toes into the process and the unbelievable amount of options out there. So here’s the question(s). The platform will be a 7.

The two engines I will be considering will be the Lycoming IO 360 from vans (may or may not thunderbolt) and the Continental Titan IO 340/360.

Please if you have time, dump your thoughts and any info you have on here. I searched and have found nothing recent.

•Reliability between the two?
•Price differences? (Actual values if you have them)
• Maintenance issues and or AD’s?
•FwF options (such as the one vans has for the ly coming they sell, will it work?)
• Propeller choices(I really want the ground adjustable composite)
•Weight issues? (CG issues if choosing the IO340?)
•Technical support and ease of getting in contact with company.
•Lastly, your gut choices

If you have anything else you want to add or direct me in a direction, shoot. I’m a sponge right now and this will be the biggest expense of the build, so I’d like to chew on every last option and detail. Thank you all so, so much and I can’t wait to read the hopefully several pages of responses....
 
I built a 9a with IO-340 after researching both engines. I chose the 340 based on a couple factors.

Delivery time at the time was about half that of Lycoming.
To same options required thunderbolt on lycoming and was about $2k more.
I was able to get the 340 delivered with dual p-mag installed.
4 hr test run (Lycoming probably does similar) but gave me faith engine was somewhat tested.

I put about 230 hours in the first year. I have had zero oil leaks due to Titan. (2 minor external I take blame for).
The engine still looks like an artpiece.
Runs very nice.
Catto Fixed Pitch 3 blade prop.

My 1 and only issue has been getting it to idle smooth, I am not blaming Titan I think it is a mixture setting on my end that is almost all resolved now.
 
Titan 370

I went with the 370 from titan for my RV7. They ran it in on a test cell and it made 208 hp on the dyno. The price was great and I could get it delivered with Robert Paisley’s EFII system that I wanted. Great experience, I went to San Antonio to watch the engine built up for three days with engine builder Bobby Looper. Awesome engine!
 
My Titan IO-370 is still sitting in the crate in my hangar. They were easy to deal with, I think I got a great price and I was able to get dual PMAGs. I just opened the crate a few days ago to do a couple of things and I have to admit its an impressive looking engine.

As you probably found out there are many options available when buying an engine. It took me a while to figure out exactly what I wanted and I changed my mind a couple of times.
 

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My -8 also has a Titan IOX370 and with 65 hrs on it and I’m happy. JB gave me a good price and they equipped mine with only the left mag since I wanted to install CPI on the right. It was run 3 hrs at the factory with their own mag on the right which they removed after running. With a Whirlwind prop it is the smoothest running four cly engine I have flown behind. EGT and CHT are very close on all cylinders with AFP injection.
 
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Same here

Bought a Titan IOX370 with 9.6:1 pistons, EFII, superior cold sump, cw crank, etc.
Price and lead time was better than Lycoming. Price was similar versus some well known build shops but everything is new vs built from core.

As the builder, the OP has lots of options. People like to validate their choices here. Weigh everything. The good news is, no single approach is 100% correct.
 
I went with the Titan IO-370 from Aero Sport. I tried talking to the Thunderbolt rep at Oshkosh and he couldn't be bothered to give me the time of day. I couldn't figure out what, if any accessories came with the thunderbolt package, so I couldn't get an idea of total cost of the kit. I tried emailing him after oshkosk with some questions and never got a response, so I wrote off lycoming since the customer service sucked.

Darren at Aero sport was great to work with. I've never waited more than a day for a response to email and he was very forward with what did and didn't get included. Also, even though its a continental package, the Titan engines are very similar to the lycoming design. Camshaft is on top (continental certified are on the bottom), can use various difference cylinders of your choice, etc. All said, I spent right around 40-45k with shipping for a brand new motor, dual SDS ignition/injection, superior cold air sump, dual alternators, flywheel, starter, filter adapter, ported/polished/flow matched cylinders, etc. The only accessory it didn't include for that price was the prop governor. They also did the 3 hours run-in on the test stand.

Edit: Technically the 370/375 package is 372 cubic inches. Some round down to 370, some round up to 375. They're all the same motor with different marketing departments.
 
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Excellent replies so far, keep them coming guys. My sponge is soaking it all up, so I thank you. What is the significance of camshaft location, or is there one?
 
Titan IOX-370 AFP-150, cold sump (Titan), mags for now (Bendix), HC pistons, "balance" crank, CS setup.

Pluses:
Easy to deal with
Good pricing
Lots of customization options
Painted
Good communications on status, etc. Mine was delayed due to some issues with a run of cranks or something I can't remember.

Minuses:
Once you go off the "Van's menu", you will be doing a lot of FF mods.
Tapered cyl fins - Vans baffle cyl wraps don't fit and have to be modified.
Cold sump - Vans throttle/mixture cable brackets won't work. The AFP Titan sump bracket I got still didn't fit. I fabbed my own.
Exhaust - Vet makes a four-pipe that fits the Titan cold sump, except mine didn't quite...back to Clint now.
Cowl - on mine, the fuel servo needs a clearance cut and blister on the lower cowl. Even with the 8deg(?) sump.
I'm just now looking at the snorkle. Expecting some work there too.
For some reason the servo to spider hose is 28" long! I sent it to Tom and he shortened it for me. Minor issue.

Great looking engine (195hp!) and I think the tapered fins are the one complication I did not consider.
 

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Continental Titan vs ECI Titan

Keep in mind that the current "Titan" is Continental Titan, which is not exactly the same as the old ECI Titans. Continental Titan is a front page advertiser on VAF and they are they only suppliers of new Titan engines.

ECI sold engine components and built engines that were branded Titan. There were a number of other very good engine builders that built engines using 100% new ECI parts (like Aerosport & Mattituck)

I had an ECI O-360 from Mattituck which was a great engine. I upgraded to a Continental Titan IO-370 a couple of years ago, which is an even better engine.
 
Excellent replies so far, keep them coming guys. My sponge is soaking it all up, so I thank you. What is the significance of camshaft location, or is there one?

Lycoming cam on top design tends to get corrosion on the camshaft easier than the certified continental cam on bottom design. Since the Lycoming cam is higher up, its the first piece that the oil drains off when sitting for a long time. It's also more prone to damage during start as its one of the last bits to get oil pressure. Continental cam on bottom design uses the push-rod tubes as the oil drain-back tubes as well, so they tend to leak more since they're double purposed and have more oil running through them. This is all anecdotal, so don't be scared of either design, they just have different maintenance areas.
 
Don't get confused by the camshaft thing.
All Lycoming clones have the same location. If you get a Ly-clone with the camshaft in the bottom, that just means it fell out...:D

The tapered cylinder fins are not a huge deal, but they add baffle work, and as pointed out, someone has already created the patterns and posted them.

Don't worry, you'll be fretting about your choice right up until you place the order. After that you'll have six more months or so to second guess your decision until the crate arrives and then you're committed!

Now let's talk props.....
 
ECI sold engine components and built engines that were branded Titan. There were a number of other very good engine builders that built engines using 100% new ECI parts (like Aerosport & Mattituck)

The ECI of old had PMA, part manufacturing authority, meaning their engine parts could be found on factory airplanes, i.e. Pipers and Cessnas. ECI engine part numbers were the same as Lycoming part numbers but with an AE prefix. I don't know if the PMA endorsement is part of the Continental Titan deal.
I assembled a Titan 320 kit engine for my 9A back in 2007.
 
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Great U-Tube Titan IO 340 overview in a 9A

Check out this u-tube video.
https://youtu.be/R6QnXbdk7KE

A real nice explanation of the 340 and why he chose it for his build. The channel is call BuildFlyGo. I bet he is a forum member on VAF as well.

The Titan 340 is what I am thinking about for my 7A.
 
Check out this u-tube video.
https://youtu.be/R6QnXbdk7KE

A real nice explanation of the 340 and why he chose it for his build. The channel is call BuildFlyGo. I bet he is a forum member on VAF as well.

The Titan 340 is what I am thinking about for my 7A.

Interestingly, that video is part of the reason for the post. Does the 340 cause an issue with CG on the 7A? I intend to go with a composite prop, also depending on CG.
 
It's lighter than the 360, but you could always put it on a 320 mount which moves it a few inches forward to keep the cg in range with a light motor and prop.
 
I’ve built several ECI engines and all have been great.

A buddy has a 340 on his RV7 and the head on #2 cyl broke loose from the cylinder in flight.
After that, I was talking to a Carbon Cub guy and he said that this same problem is a known issue for the 340s on Carbon Cubs.
Don’t know the specifics or the numbers but if you are looking at the 340 it might be worth checking out.
 
I’ve built several ECI engines and all have been great.

A buddy has a 340 on his RV7 and the head on #2 cyl broke loose from the cylinder in flight.
After that, I was talking to a Carbon Cub guy and he said that this same problem is a known issue for the 340s on Carbon Cubs.
Don’t know the specifics or the numbers but if you are looking at the 340 it might be worth checking out.

Very interesting information, thank you sir.
 
340/370 in an 8

Does anyone have aircraft weight/performance numbers for a Titan 340 in an -8 vs a 370? The 340 is rated for 180hp continuous, while the 370 puts out 195hp, but is roughly 20-30lbs heavier. I’m planning on installing a Hartzell blended airfoil cs prop and Sky Designs aluminum gear.

Bryan
 
If you go with the 370/375 195 hp get it with pendulum dampers (counterweights) on the crank. Adds about 6 lbs. Hartzell don’t like their BA on that engine without counterweights. Don’t know about the 340.
 
One more comment on the tapered fins on the Titan. I decided to go that route since as is posted earlier in this thread others have already figured that out. However, I believe that it is possible to get cylinders without the tapered fins. More weight so I went with the tapered fins. Just letting you know that this is an option. If you are worried about customization its probably best to confirm with Continental.
 
IO-340

I built an IO340 for about half of what it would cost to buy one. Got to be good friends with a sales guy at Airpower.com.
And every part is brand new.
These are incredibly simple engines to put together if you are up to engine work. All up weight minus exhaust is 279.5 lbs. Configurated as follows:
Fixed pitch, Taper fin cylinders, Superior Cold Air sump, SDS EFII (legacy FlyEFII), FlyEFII lightweight flywheel, B&C oil filter adapter, starter, and alternator, 4" Sabre prop extension, oil squirters. Left out parts I did not need like fuel pump rod and right mag drive gear (blocked off the gear mount).
Runs great spinning an 80" Whirlwind GA200L STOL prop. Very smooth.
Believe it or not I put it on a Kitfox V and it does quite well! Hardest part was masking the engine prior to paint.
 

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lycoming went to 3150 hr trouble free, thunderbolt at 2150 and counting. this is hobbs time. first engine started making metal on cam lifters. second engine is roller lifter, flowed heads.
anniversary-logo.jpg
 
lycoming went to 3150 hr trouble free, thunderbolt at 2150 and counting. this is hobbs time. first engine started making metal on cam lifters. second engine is roller lifter, flowed heads.
anniversary-logo.jpg

Nice to see the RV6 tilt up on the logo representing the backbone of the company............ :D
 
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