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Answering some mysteries

NinerBikes

Well Known Member
RV-12 related.

Got a little miffed at some questions asked earlier.

Brief summary.

1. Yes, I have a student pilot certificate.
2. Yes I own a RV-12 and I am training in it.
3. Was asked if I was "carrying passengers" today, implication being that since I stepped on the brakes after a landing, I was PIC. Also stated that the passenger unlatched the canopy. I never stated whether I was PIC or passenger at that particular moment. Or which seat I was sitting in, left or right, not that it really matters. Technically, every time I fly, I carry a "passenger", but all of them have the potential to be "PIC", are rated in RV-12's, and I either pay them to be a passenger in my plane because they also have "CFI", or they own their own RV-12, in the hangar next to mine.

4. Anyone that wants to find out what the ethanol level is in their Mogas, I suggest you buy a little Ethanol fuel tester kit, for cheap. You add a measured amount of water to it, and a measured amount of premium mogas, shake it and wait, and you'll have your answer. Where you buy your fuel is the wrong question. I buy it in the San Fernando Valley, in Los Angeles. You won't be buying your Mogas where I buy mine when you live in the next county 60 miles away. Testing it yourself to figure out what stations carry ethanol free Premium fuel is what is important.

No hard feelings involved here.
 
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RV-12 related.

Technically, every time I fly, I carry a "passenger", but all of them have the potential to be "PIC", are rated in RV-12's, and I either pay them to be a passenger in my plane because they also have "CFI", or they own their own RV-12, in the hangar next to mine.
.

Just to be clear:
1. A student pilot may not legally carry a passenger.
2. There is no such thing as ‘rated in RV-12’s’, just ‘single engine land’.
3. If the other person in the plane is a cfi then he must be the PIC, because a student cannot be PIC in an airplane with passengers. If he gives you instruction, it may be logged as dual.
4. If the other person is a licensed pilot (other than student) but not a cfi giving instruction, then he must be PIC because you cannot carry passengers. Even if he lets you handle the controls you cannot log it.
 
Just to be clear:
1. A student pilot may not legally carry a passenger.
2. There is no such thing as ‘rated in RV-12’s’, just ‘single engine land’.
3. If the other person in the plane is a cfi then he must be the PIC, because a student cannot be PIC in an airplane with passengers. If he gives you instruction, it may be logged as dual.
4. If the other person is a licensed pilot (other than student) but not a cfi giving instruction, then he must be PIC because you cannot carry passengers. Even if he lets you handle the controls you cannot log it.

100% correct. Not logged hours. Counts towards nothing in getting my license. But it's still real world experience, even if not on the books.

Every entry in my Log book, currently, has been with a CFI. No more, no less. At some point, I will solo. Then there will be some hours with me as PIC. logged.
But no passengers until I pass both oral and flight tests with DPE. Then a temporary is issued to me, until FAA sends me the permanent one.
 
Just to be clear:
1. A student pilot may not legally carry a passenger.
2. There is no such thing as ‘rated in RV-12’s’, just ‘single engine land’.
3. If the other person in the plane is a cfi then he must be the PIC, because a student cannot be PIC in an airplane with passengers. If he gives you instruction, it may be logged as dual.
4. If the other person is a licensed pilot (other than student) but not a cfi giving instruction, then he must be PIC because you cannot carry passengers. Even if he lets you handle the controls you cannot log it.

I also understand that if you have a pilots license, you need to get transitional training by an instructor and get signed off and certified to fly in a different plane.
 
I also understand that if you have a pilots license, you need to get transitional training by an instructor and get signed off and certified to fly in a different plane.

If you are a student pilot, you must have an instructor’s endorsement for each make/model in which you fly solo. If you are a private pilot (single engine land) then you may fly any* single engine land airplane, no endorsement needed.
*You do need a one time endorsement for “high power” (over 200 HP) airplanes, “complex”(retractable gear, CS prop, flaps) airplanes, ‘tail wheel’ (self-explanatory) airplanes, ‘pressurized’ (over 25,000’) airplanes. And many insurance companies will want some dual before insuring you in a new type, but that’s not the FAA.
 
If you are a student pilot, you must have an instructor’s endorsement for each make/model in which you fly solo. If you are a private pilot (single engine land) then you may fly any* single engine land airplane, no endorsement needed.
*You do need a one time endorsement for “high power” (over 200 HP) airplanes, “complex”(retractable gear, CS prop, flaps) airplanes, ‘tail wheel’ (self-explanatory) airplanes, ‘pressurized’ (over 25,000’) airplanes. And many insurance companies will want some dual before insuring you in a new type, but that’s not the FAA.

Doubt I am ever going to go there. What I have, will be more than sufficient, for a lifetime. Learning to fly, so late in life, at 61, is a plenty big step. The whole virtue of LSA is the pilot has a low workload. Perfect for elderly folks. Plane not too fast to get ahead of you, glass EFIS that's very user friendly, small fuel tank so you hopefully don't go far enough to get into too much trouble. And a ride that makes flying either very early in the day, or late in the day, comfortable, as thermal activity in something with 10#'s per sq ft wing load and a stall speed of 45 kts makes for a really bumpy, rough ride, that's not much fun, once you get older.
 
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Ninerbikes, yes, I open that door, Bob answered it very clearly. What you do is entirely up to you and we are not the police. BUT others read this forum and may read what you do and assume it is legally acceptable.

Why I asked about the gas;
I DO buy all my airplane fuel at Costco. To date north of 550 gallons.
I DO test each gallon and it is typically 8% ethanol.
My son manages the company that trucks fuel to all the Costco in this area. He said they all use the same fuel and it averages 8% ethanol.
I have found stations that supply 0% ethanol but they were in Arizona.
 
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My Interpretation

NinerBikes has done nothing illegal. His "passengers" are actually licensed pilots who are, legally speaking, pilot in command and log their time in the aircraft as pilot in command in their log books. NinerBikes does not log the flight time in his log book unless his "passenger" is a CFI.
 
I also understand that if you have a pilots license, you need to get transitional training by an instructor and get signed off and certified to fly in a different plane.

Once you get your Sport Pilot license, you will be good to fly fixed wing LSA airplanes, and you'll have an endorsement for flying "fast" LSA with your RV-12. If you want to fly another class of LSA, such as a weight-shift trike, you'd need an endorsement. Other types of fixed-wing LSA just require whatever transition training your insurance company requires, and of course, whatever you need to be safe flying it.

When I was a student pilot, I did the same thing you are doing. I flew alot with other pilots in their planes, and other pilots flew with me in the club airplane I was part owner of. Some weren't CFIs, but were highly experienced. I learned so much from them, even though I couldn't log it all. Have fun out there!

Katie
 
Ninerbikes, yes, I open that door, Bob answered it very clearly. What you do is entirely up to you and we are not the police. BUT others read this forum and may read what you do and assume it is legally acceptable.

Why I asked about the gas;
I DO buy all my airplane fuel at Costco. To date north of 550 gallons.
I DO test each gallon and it is typically 8% ethanol.
My son manages the company that trucks fuel to all the Costco in this area. He said they all use the same fuel and it averages 8% ethanol.
I have found stations that supply 0% ethanol but they were in Arizona.

I don't know what to tell you about the ethanol situation. I also read in the Wall Street Journal that when the Corona Virus hit, gasoline was so cheap that a lot of refineries got "exemptions" from having to add ethanol to their fuel, as it couldn't be produced as cheaply as the glut of oil on the market, as gasoline prices went into free fall, due to lack of demand, no one could drive anywhere in their vehicles, except to get toilet paper or groceries, as all services were shut down.

I can tell you that the last time I bought 23 gallons, about 2 weeks ago, the stuff I bought still tested ethanol free. I am lucky to go through 4 to 5 gallons per session of instruction, lots of slow, level flight, power off stalls, slow speed 5 - 10 degree turns, a few power on stalls, and flight at headings, while maintaining elevation, all no reason to really pour the coal to the throttle, so that we stay in the learning area airspace.

Flying to SZP is another matter. 5200-5300 rpm and what appears to be just under 5 gallons an hour. Round trip, it's a 4 gallon flight.

So, I am not going through a lot of fuel, currently.

At this point, what I need is practical hands on experience. 130 + hours as "co Pilot" in my friends RV-12 is valuable, to me, even if not logged.

I have no intention, after spending the money on a new to me plane, with jeopardizing getting my Sport Pilot license. I've waited this long, a few more weeks, or months isn't going to make a difference in getting my license to fly. Most of my flights will be solo, I don't have people, except in the aviation fields, that really want to go flying.
 
I’ll second what KatieB said. After 35 years of GA flying I can honestly say I have learned something from every pilot I have flown with —- sometimes it’s what NOT to do!😜
 
Stereotypes are a lazy person’s thought process. Everyone is an individual. I know people that were 25 going on 70, and I know people in their 80s that still have their sh#& wrapped pretty tight as we used to say! I’m not saying that everybody hangs in there, but don’t forget: cunning and deceit shall overcome youth and agility!😜
 
Gettin 'er done.

Terrible inversion with heat for 8 weeks straight makes climbing out much past 2500 to 3000 ft from 1000 at the airport an oil temperature cooling problem. Inversion heating is up to about 6000 ft, before the air above starts cooling as you climb. Early build Sn 120212, 2012 with oil cooler close to the muffler up front.

I am running mogas that's ethanol free currently, and Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10w-40, full synthetic and getting the oil temp into the yellow zone while climbing does tend to consume a small amount of oil. Added 150 ml today to top off, with 23 hours on the oil and filter.

How many Hobbs hours are folks running their Mobil 1 on on Premium ethanol free mogas, between oil and filter changes? 50? 75 to 80? 100 hours?

Bring on October and some cooler weather soon, hopefully. It's past 11 PM as I write this and it's still 90F outside in Los Angeles, wondering if it's even cool down enough for a Thursday 9 AM lesson without overheating problems for the motor oil.
 
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I am a strong advocate for using Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 full-synthetic oil. I have over 600 hours on my engine and it runs/operates like new. I change oil and filter at 75 hours and use 93E10 exclusively. My RV-12 is an early SN with oil cooler positioned directly in front of the muffler. On hot summer days I see oil temps in the low yellow range during extended climbs.

It’s also important to keep oil temperatures elevated, so as colder weather approaches, I selectively install one of the three winterization kit baffle plates in front of the oil cooler to retain enough heat in the oil to boil off moisture.
 
And many insurance companies will want some dual before insuring you in a new type, but that’s not the FAA.

An 84 year old goes out and buys a used Experimental RV-12. He has his PPL and 6000 + hours. He needs to get 2 to 5 hours dual in a RV-12 so he can fly his plane back home, with insurance in effect.

Does the dual need to be done with a CFI, or can the new owner go up in someone else's RV-12 as PIC for the hours? Asking for a friend, since I believe the dual needs to be done with a CFI. Not my plane.
 
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An 84 year old goes out and buys a used Experimental RV-12. He has his PPL and 6000 + hours. He needs to get 2 to 5 hours dual in a RV-12 so he can fly his plane back home, with insurance in effect.
Does the dual need to be done with a CFI, or can the new owner go up in someone else's RV-12 as PIC for the hours? Asking for a friend, since I believe the dual needs to be done with a CFI. Not my plane.

It is based entirely on the insurance company. I've seen, and experienced it both ways.
 
As another reference point, my insurance company required a “check out” with a CFI having at least 25 hours in model and type. No specific amount of time. Like Mel said, depends on the insurance company.
 
When I was doing transition training for a local flight school I encountered some really experienced pilots who were current. My own insurance didn’t require any time in type when I took my 12 up for its first flight. I told them all that and one pushed back against his insurance company. Turned out it was boiler plate language they would negotiate if warranted, and at least one prospective client got his company to drop the time in type/dual requirement. Good thing the school owner didn’t find out I lost him business!😝
 
The whole virtue of LSA is the pilot has a low workload. Perfect for elderly folks. Plane not too fast to get ahead of you, glass EFIS that's very user friendly, small fuel tank so you hopefully don't go far enough to get into too much trouble. And a ride that makes flying either very early in the day, or late in the day, comfortable, as thermal activity in something with 10#'s per sq ft wing load and a stall speed of 45 kts makes for a really bumpy, rough ride, that's not much fun, once you get older.

Dude! I must take issue. I'm substantially older than 61, but I hope it's a long time before I get that old! :)






...
 
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Look at the bright side: I’ve found that if you stoop, get a vacant stare and hang your mouth open you can get youngsters to do about anything for you! I repeat: age and cunning shall overcome youth and agility!😜
 
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