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What was your last (biennial) Flight Review like?

Ed_Wischmeyer

Well Known Member
By way of background, a CFI buddy just gave a flight review in a Cherokee 180 to a 5,000 hour commercial pilot whose stall and rudder skills were… deficient. And I’ve flown with RV pilots with skills at both extremes of the skill range.

So on your last Flight Review, what did you do? What was the most valuable? What was no challenge? What do you wish you had done? And what was different compared to a spam can flight review?

Thanks!

Ed
 
My last BFR was similar to a mock check ride with the addition of accelerated/turning stalls and an instrument approach.

Regular take off, landing, short and soft field as well. Turns around a point, steep turns, slow flight, power on and off stalls, turning stalls, upset attitude recoveries, emergency procedures, fire, loss of thrust, etc.. and finished off with an ILS approach (not IR, but in training so why not.
 
Fundamental air work for me: stall series, slow flight, steep turns, unusual attitude recoveries. Basically stuff I admitted don’t practice all that often. Finished with something I’d never done, the Power-Off 180° Accuracy Approach and Landing out of the Commercial ACS.
 
Spins

I had never done actual spin training, just conceptual stuff. I specifically sought out a CFI that was willing to teach me spin recovery in my RV-7. Extremely worth while!
 
Mine was an IPC.

Hopefully you meant "...plus some other stuff". A bare-bones IPC, by itself, does not really meet the requirements listed in the FARs.

My last Flight Review I was asked to do turns on pylons (the commercial maneuver). I had never done them in the -10, and it took a couple of turns to shake the rust off.
 
My last Flight Review went from August of last year until May of this year, and took 30 hours of dual instruction. It was basically a PPL do-over in terms of what we covered. This was after 13 years of rust accumulated by not flying. I had 80 hours total prior to getting back in the left seat.
 
Mountain Flying Course

I did the New Mexico Pilot’s Mountain Flying course which was enough to complete a phase of the FAA Wings program which counts as a flight review.
 
Flight review

The regs give the instructor great latitude in what is accomplished during the review, as long as it meets the minimum standard of an hour ground and an hour flight.

My experience, as an instructor, has been that no two Flight Reviews have been the same. I try to tailor each review to the specific pilot that is receiving the review...
 
Ground: VFR procedures - towered and non-towered airports, cross-country nav and ATC services, VFR into IMC avoidance, Florida weather, use and limitations of NEXRAD, ADM. No IFR since I haven’t been current in years and don’t plan to be.

Flight: Short field obstacle takeoff, VFR to another field. On the way we did steep turns, power off stalls, simulated engine fire with emergency descent; normal landing in arrival. Taxi back, another short field obstacle takeoff, power off 180 precision landingnon return to home.
 
For me it's typically the same as others': steep turns, slow flight, landings and takeoffs. Pretty basic but also a little humbling to be reminded that my skills don't necessarily remain as polished as they could be.
I do look at the BFR as an opportunity for skills improvement, and I usually ask if we can do some things that I feel could use improvement or that make me uncomfortable, e.g. commercial test maneuvers or full power stalls.
 
Emergency Descent

In addition to the ground discussion, mine was an IPC plus slow flight, steep turns, turns about a point, and several different stalls (straight ahead, departure, etc.). The most valuable thing for me was a request for an emergency descent. I hadn't been asked for that one since back in the C-172 days. I tried flaps down, power off, nose down and try to keep it below Vfe - doesn't really give you enough descent rate in an RV. CFII suggested an aggressive forward slip with the flaps down - worked great! I learned something.
 
Section take off and landings along with formation work.

To his credit I fly with him several times a month during the good weather times.

I did think it was cool to do section takoff/landings as a BFR though.
 
Mine was ostensibly a cross country flight to an airport half an hour away, but we did a "diversion" which meant we never left the area.

We did some steep turns, then some power on and power off stalls, and during the last one the instructor said, "You can't have your engine back," and I had to do a practice forced landing approach to a field.

I'd previously told him I wanted to start instrument training, so we did about 20 minutes under the hood, with climbing and descending rate-1 turns and 30º intercepts to a GPS track on instruments.

When we got back he called for a go-around just before the round-out, and on the second attempt he said he wanted a power-off glide approach.

I was pretty happy with the workout. Felt like we'd adequately fulfilled the spirit of a BFR.

In Australia we have to do a separate BFR for night flying. We ended up planning to the same airport half an hour away, with a different diversion, which necessitated spur of the moment decision making to get into an airport under Sydney's class-C steps without busting lowest-safe altitude due to terrain to the west, referencing MSAs from the ERC-L chart and the instrument approach plates for the diversion destination. Everything I needed to do it safely was on the G3X Touch, which made it all ridiculously easy. Hats off to Garmin.

- mark
 
I don’t do them often, but as a CFI I really want you go outside your comfort zone and do stuff you don’t normally practice. Aborted take offs, stalls, simulated engine failures etc. I’m confident in your ability you fly a short cross country and make a normal landing, that’s not the point of doing a flight review. If you don’t learn something new then it probably wasn’t a very good flight review.
 
whats this "flight review" you speak of, never had one in over 20 years of flying

bob burns
RV-4 N82rb

:D:D:D
 
[QUOTE;1639243]whats this "flight review" you speak of, never had one in over 20 years of flying
:D:D:D[/QUOTE]

FAR 61.56

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (f) of this section, a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training. The review must include:

(1) A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter; and

(2) A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate.

(c) Except as provided in paragraphs (d), (e), and (g) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which that pilot acts as pilot in command, that person has -

(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor and

(2) A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.

Sure hope you're kidding...
 
[QUOTE;1639243]whats this "flight review" you speak of, never had one in over 20 years of flying
:D:D:D

FAR 61.56
……..
Sure hope you're kidding...[/QUOTE]
———————————————————

One of the exemptions is for pilots who get regular proficiency checks at their airline job.
 
FAR 61.56
……..
Sure hope you're kidding...
———————————————————

One of the exemptions is for pilots who get regular proficiency checks at their airline job.[/QUOTE]

Touché!

How do I get FAR egg off my face? Not sure that MEK would work...
 
The most valuable thing for me was a request for an emergency descent. I hadn't been asked for that one since back in the C-172 days. I tried flaps down, power off, nose down and try to keep it below Vfe - doesn't really give you enough descent rate in an RV. CFII suggested an aggressive forward slip with the flaps down - worked great! I learned something.

A spin works too :D

- mark
 
Yep, me too.

FAR 61.56
……..
Sure hope you're kidding...
———————————————————

One of the exemptions is for pilots who get regular proficiency checks at their airline job.

Just had my first FR ever in over 35 years of airline flying. Two hours of ground school and about 1.5 hours of flying. Had to redo one of the stalls as I used a bunch of aileron vs. rudder to counteract the wing drop. Pretty thorough review and no slack given - by my CFI son.
 
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In addition to the ground discussion, mine was an IPC plus slow flight, steep turns, turns about a point, and several different stalls (straight ahead, departure, etc.). The most valuable thing for me was a request for an emergency descent. I hadn't been asked for that one since back in the C-172 days. I tried flaps down, power off, nose down and try to keep it below Vfe - doesn't really give you enough descent rate in an RV. CFII suggested an aggressive forward slip with the flaps down - worked great! I learned something.

A spin works too :D

- mark

So does a steep turn in a descending spiral. This is what my instructor did . . . We have broken layers with "holes" around here frequently and this works to stay VFR and get down through when little else will. Kinda fun too. :D
 
My last BFR was about 6 weeks ago. My CFI is a good friend…used to be my accountant before he retired years ago - now is a CFI for the FBO at our regional airport. His twin Baron is in the hangar across from mine and his C152 hangars right next door.

The ground portion was very abbreviated because I’d done the Sporty’s BFR course. The air work was the usual turns/stalls/emergencies…lots of fun and always educational. We did some landings/takeoffs at various little airports around here (there are 16 in about a 50 mile radius), including the one with a notorious perpetual crosswind and the nasty tree burbles over the approach end. We capped it off with me talking him through the approach and landing, and explaining how AoA works in my airplane. He had never flown an RV before…I think overall he had more fun on that flight then I did.
 
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[QUOTE;1639243]whats this "flight review" you speak of, never had one in over 20 years of flying
:D:D:D

FAR 61.56

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (f) of this section, a flight review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training. The review must include:

(1) A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter; and

(2) A review of those maneuvers and procedures that, at the discretion of the person giving the review, are necessary for the pilot to demonstrate the safe exercise of the privileges of the pilot certificate.

(c) Except as provided in paragraphs (d), (e), and (g) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which that pilot acts as pilot in command, that person has -

(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor and

(2) A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review.

Sure hope you're kidding...[/QUOTE]

Ed, i figured that exemption would get by someone, didn't figure it would be you though. I just finished recurrent a couple of weeks ago, i would rather do a flight review.
:D
bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
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Flight Review

Just for fun, I wanted something very different. I did my review in a Carbon Cub, big tires, big engine. We accomplished the normal stuff, then off airport landings and takeoffs. Engine out landings to a full stop in Texas cow pastures. A lot different than doing a 6 month check in a DC-10.
 
In Canada we aren't required to do a biennial flight review. Instead we are required to show proof of recurrent training every 24 months. Often this is done through a self-paced study of the applicable regulations. In short, it's completely useless as a means of ensuring people don't go making smoking holes in the ground - all it does is it ensures a pilot has knowledge of the regulations.

There are other means of compliance allowable and I took advantage of those other means in order to carry out the equivalent of a biennial flight review with an instructor. The instructor was not familiar with the aircraft nor its handling characteristics.

We did the usual normal takeoffs and landings, short field over an obstacle, stalls, spirals, steep turns etc. Then the real learning began when he asked me to coach him from cruise flight down to a full-stop landing. Yes, he was doing the flying, but he was reviewing my knowledge of aircraft handling, power settings to achieve given speeds and rates of descent etc. I talked him down to a near-squeaker landing, including some very rapid-fire corrections close to the ground when he flat-lined rather than flared.

Our post-flight debrief was very interesting. He admitted to having intentionally dumbed down his flying skills to see if I would correct him - or as he put it, to see how quickly I would recognize an out-of-bounds condition and know and articulate the appropriate corrective actions.

I walked away from that flight review feeling pretty good. This old-time instructor knew how to put me through my paces in a manner that ensured my knowledge and skills were sharp. I really appreciate that sign-off in my logbook!
 
I wish more CFIs would teach/test stalls with no power recovery. Seems kind of silly that we are always taught to recover with adding power when in reality a lot of real world scenarios are stalls where the engine is not operational. Definitely going to be on my list of things to do when I finally get that CFI.

P.S. I have been working on ratings/certs anytime I needed a flight review so they have been non-eventful.
 
BFR

The significant weakness of PC a tubojet aircraft in lieu of BFR is that the jet PC only includes approaches to stalls.
A while ago I crossed paths with a current, active GA Instructor who did not know what a BFR is.
 
A while ago I crossed paths with a current, active GA Instructor who did not know what a BFR is.

Is he a relatively new cfi? The FAA dropped the ‘B’ some years ago (now it’s just ‘flight review’), apparently because so many people spelled ‘biennial’ as ‘biannual’.
 
Is he a relatively new cfi? The FAA dropped the ‘B’ some years ago (now it’s just ‘flight review’), apparently because so many people spelled ‘biennial’ as ‘biannual’.

Spelling wasn’t the reason. There are all kinds of flight reviews… something like that.
 
The significant weakness of PC a tubojet aircraft in lieu of BFR is that the jet PC only includes approaches to stalls.
A while ago I crossed paths with a current, active GA Instructor who did not know what a BFR is.

not anymore, we are required to do full stalls, both high and low altitude now. it beats the heck out of the sim, but it an interesting experience, the loss of altitude stalling at 35k and the amount of nose down pitch required is amazing.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
I wish more CFIs would teach/test stalls with no power recovery. Seems kind of silly that we are always taught to recover with adding power when in reality a lot of real world scenarios are stalls where the engine is not operational. Definitely going to be on my list of things to do when I finally get that CFI.

P.S. I have been working on ratings/certs anytime I needed a flight review so they have been non-eventful.

Blame the FAA. They want stall recoveries with minimum altitude loss, instead of airmanship.
 
BFR to FR Name Change

Let's see what the FAA says:

From AC No. 61-98D, Currency Requirements and Guidance for the Flight Review and Instrument Proficiency Check, https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-98D.pdf:
"Note: The FAA no longer uses the term “Biennial Flight Review.” This term implied that pilots only needed currency training once every 24 calendar-months. The FAA encourages currency training as often as appropriate to a pilot’s individual needs. Consequently, the FAA now uses the term “Flight Review.”"​
 
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Blame the FAA. They want stall recoveries with minimum altitude loss, instead of airmanship.

Do you have any current FAA documentation available that says they want stall recoveries with minimum altitude loss? I thought that went away several years back, and now you just have to recover to the same altitude you started the maneuver at.
 
My most recent BFR was with a young Ferry/CFI pilot from a small airport a half hour away. I like to hire a different CFI each time to get a variation in experience. This one had never been in an RV and really enjoyed it. I learned something that will save me big $$ in fines for getting too low near coastlines where birds and whales are suposedly bothered by small airplanes. We also took off from the grass runway on the field. Nice guy too.
 
Do you have any current FAA documentation available that says they want stall recoveries with minimum altitude loss? I thought that went away several years back, and now you just have to recover to the same altitude you started the maneuver at.

PTS for private/commercial airplane have been superseded by the ACS. From the current FAA Private Pilot Airman Certification Standards, VII. Slow Flight and Stalls, PA.VII.A.S3 and S4. (Yes, I just this morning did the online module on Airman Certification Standards just now to renew my Flight Instructor certificates.)

PA.VII.A.S3 Establish and maintain an airspeed at which any further increase in angle of attack, increase in load factor, or reduction in power, would result in a stall warning (e.g., airplane buffet, stall horn, etc.).

PA.VII.A.S4 Accomplish coordinated straight-and-level flight, turns, climbs, and descents with the airplane configured as specified by the evaluator without a stall warning (e.g., airplane buffet, stall horn, etc.).

For Commercial Pilot, at the discretion of the "evaluator" (probably a DPE), full stalls, power on and off, may be required.

I did find a 2002 PTS on line, and in VIII. Area of Operation: Slow Flight and Stalls, B. Power-Off Stalls:
6. Recognizes and recovers promptly after a stall occurs by simultaneously reducing the angle of attack, increasing power to maximum allowable, and leveling the wings to return to a straight- and-level flight attitude with a minimum loss of altitude appropriate for the airplane.

"Aeronautical knowledge should not be a game of trivial pursuit." Me
 
No altitude requirement…

The requirement to minimize altitude loss did go away. The ACS Ed references are for slow flight. The stall portion stipulates utilizing the Airplane Flying Handbook or POH recovery procedures. The AFM does not stipulate the need to minimize altitude loss during recovery. AC 120-109A states: “Evaluation criteria for a recovery from an impending stall should not include a predetermined value for altitude loss…”. Reducing AOA is the most important pilot action in recovering from an impending or full stall.

No need to split hairs regarding FAA criteria. Instructors have plenty of latitude to teach aircraft handling (e.g., Ed’s expanded envelope exercises). With the exception of the -8, the “classic” RV’s (3/4/6/7) don’t provide much natural stall warning. Exploring the left side of the aerodynamic limit with a current, qualified instructor can’t hurt.

Fly safe,

Vac
 
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