Backcountry Flying in the 8

I'd just like to hear of experiences flying a RV8 in some backcountry situations, namely Idaho/Montana. I'm thinking of buying a 8, and I know the RV's don't land all that slow for the shorter fields, as I currently have a -4. I never used my 4 that much for any backcountry due to it's limited gear space... Am I crazy for wanting to land a RV on some rougher surfaces?
Thanks.

The short answer is...

Yes.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

back RV-8

Still building but hope to fly mine to some back country strips such as Johnson Creek, which I think is fairly well maintained. Can those with experience comment on the short/rough field capabilities of the -8 and the usefulness of larger tires and leaving off the wheel pants? Van used to take his to some out of the way places, dirt strips.

Which strips?

You may have to ask about specific strips you have in mind.
The main ones, no problem. Johnson Creek, Big Creek, Smiley Creek, Stanley, ect....

I met some friends in Idaho last year that landed at quite a few of them. The -8's are at all the airports I mentioned above quite often along with all the other RV's. The only RV's I have not seen are the -3 and -12.

There was a gentleman I met at Johnson's Creek that put RV-10 wheels and pants on a -4/Harmon Rocket so he could land at more airports. But if you stick to the main airports you will have no problems with your stock wheels.

Johnson Creek


Big Creek


And the -8 takes off quick at these strips.

You probably won't be able to land at Mile-Hi with it.
Youtube video of a Cub landing at Mile-Hi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr8hdrGN0sE

Rough surface

Sure, you can fly an '8' in and out of dirt of grass strips, but it far from the ideal aircraft for a really rough surface mission. If backcountry flying is your main interest, I would suggest looking at something more suited to the task. Larger tires and no wheel pants will improve the ability to handle unimproved surfaces, but you are going to trash the underside of the wing and flaps. There is a reason that there are not a lot of low-wing bush airplanes.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

Scotts pictures have my -8 and another CXO pilots -7 in them. I've done 2 trips to ID and loved the back-country. An RV (especially and 8) is a great aircraft for this type trip. You won't get as slow (TO/lnd) as a super-cub but climb/cruise performance is wonderful. I go solo to get good perf. Read up on and/or take some mountain lessons (McCall has a couple places) I put a little larger tire on than the standard Vans 5x5. Can't remember what the model is but its a Goodyear from Desser and is basically a 6x that fits on a -5 wheel. Raises the plane up another 1" (better prop clearance) and "grips" the road better. The -8 gear is really nice vs. the rod gear in other RV's. I've been into lots of rough runways and a few fields, no problems, leave the pants on.

back country

Thanks for all the useful responses. Bill

A few other relevant threads

I did a search and found a few threads that may be relevant to your question.

This thread has a picture of an RV-8 on 31" tundra tires (post #20).

This thread has some discussion and Youtube videos of RV's going into some Idaho strips.

Not an RV-8 but check out post #21 of this thread.
Links to some of the airstrips mentioned in the above thread:
Cabin Creek
Wilson Bar
Lord Flat

There are others if you do a search.

topgun260 said:

I did a search and found a few threads that may be relevant to your question.

This thread has a picture of an RV-8 on 31" tundra tires (post #20).

This thread has some discussion and Youtube videos of RV's going into some Idaho strips.

Not an RV-8 but check out post #21 of this thread.
Links to some of the airstrips mentioned in the above thread:
Cabin Creek
Wilson Bar
Lord Flat

There are others if you do a search.

Click to expand...

I think the -8 on tundra photos was a joke.. FIW

lots of RV's out there

We have a C-185 (the SUV/Backcountry wagon) and an RV8 (sports car), the best of both worlds in many ways. I've seen a fair number of RV's at the well groomed locations like Johnson Creek and Big Creek, and one time saw a -6 at Sulphur Creek. Havent seen any at other locations in the back country, not that its impossible or really that difficult in these birds (your milage and skill may vary). Its more of a question of wear and tear on the airframe in my humble opinion.

Most looked stock, although I've seen a few that obviously took off their wheel pants for the visit.

I have no desire to take my RV8 into the Idaho back country unless there is a good reason to. And then its going to be a well groomed grass location like JC, Big Creek, Flying B, Garden Valley, etc and you still have to be pretty careful about sprinklers and such. There are plenty of rocks that get strewn about even at well used places like Stanley. have Fun!

Tim

If you are only doing it occasionally I see no reason why you couldn't. I would highly recommend having a spare set of hubs for larger tires, with the obvious removal of the wheel pants before traveling. You'll rip em up, or off in some situations. They even snag on some hanger door runners!

Forget those tiny 5.00s. You'll want 7.00s a least. I'd say 8.00s but not sure the brakes would handle them.

As far as aproaches and T/O & L ... I see no reason why the 8 would not work. I've got a Hartzell constant speed prop and with a Concord RG battery and ELT shelf behind the baggage, she full-stall lands fine, in a fairly short distance. The CS prop definitely helps. Big brake out front. Haven't measured the exact distance yet, but I think I am stopping in 400 to 600 feet. Could do it shorter but I am still coming down short final at 75 knots, feeling it out. But coming in high, dropping the nose and cutting power, flaring to a three pointer, she drops in fine and stops around 550 ft. I've done it in less.

Anyway, its not ideal, but if you are not using it for daily runs, I see no reason you could not do it if you practice a lot on T/O & L on bigger fields till you get a solid grasp of the individuals aircrafts needs.

As far as whether you want to beat up the plane...thats another issue altogether. But it IS a tool to be used. So if its all you got, then why not?

RV-8 back country

Again, thanks for all the responses. I've landed our old Commanche 260 several times at Stanley and it was not a problem at all. Guess I'll stick to the smoother and better maintained grass strips. Johnson Creek looks super...

Backcountry in a 8

I've taken my 8 to several backcountry strips in Idaho and Utah.
The big help has been putting the larger Dresser tires on. My philosophy also is to leave the wheel pants on. My logic for this is I would rather get a scraped up wheel pant that I can easily repair then a rock thrown up into the underside of my horizontal stab or leading edge, which I've had happen numerous times in a C185 and other taildraggers. Also with the larger tires the clearance is better to the bottom of the pants.
My big complaint with my -8 for shortfield is the fixed pitch prop I have doesn't slow the plane down on landing like a CS prop would do.
Another suggestion is to replace the Vans tailwheel with a angled double fork type. The Vans tailwheel with it's vertical forward-face WILL catch on a hole or divet and could possibly rip your stinger right off the fuselage.

redhawk said:

My big complaint with my -8 for shortfield is the fixed pitch prop I have doesn't slow the plane down on landing like a CS prop would do.

Click to expand...

Redhawk, you need to sell that airplane (to me) and no more complaints.

Backcountry...

Whatever you do, don't talk to Smokyray (Smokey)! He's taken his -4 , Rocket and -X into much of the backcountry, no problemo. Do a quick search for his posts, lots of good info and feedback.

Johnson Creek

I went to Johnson Creek last summer. The only thing back country about it was location. It's like a golf course. I had small tires and wheel pants. No problem.

I've Been Every Where Man!

Smokey Ray has had his RVs in lot of places in Idaho some us veteran Idaho Pilots, wish, we had the courage to try!
His fixed pitch RV4 has seen more of Idaho than I have seen in 10 years of going there. I know he has landed a lot of places in a 145 hp C172 that most would not try.
It is the pilot? Not the equipment.
Go, follow your dreams, just be careful and do not jump without weighing the odds. Leave yourself an out.

Folks, I have helped take two RV-8's out of the Flying B in pieces. So - Johnson Creek,Garden Valley,Moose Creek - OK. The others, not so OK. My thoughts.
Paul Collins
8ZV

“Folks, I have helped take two RV-8's out of the Flying B in pieces. So - Johnson Creek,Garden Valley,Moose Creek - OK. The others, not so OK. My thoughts.”

I’m considering taking my 8(taildragger),with standard 5” wheels and pants, into the Idaho back country this spring. Anyone have a list of acceptable strips close to Johnson creek? Would love to know what happened on these 8’s that were taken out in pieces. If th 6” tire is needed, which one fits the 5” wheel?

tracy said:

“Folks, I have helped take two RV-8's out of the Flying B in pieces. So - Johnson Creek,Garden Valley,Moose Creek - OK. The others, not so OK. My thoughts.”

I’m considering taking my 8(taildragger),with standard 5” wheels and pants, into the Idaho back country this spring. Anyone have a list of acceptable strips close to Johnson creek? Would love to know what happened on these 8’s that were taken out in pieces. If th 6” tire is needed, which one fits the 5” wheel?

Click to expand...

An easy option to improve grass/dirt field capability is to put on 380x150-5.0 tires. Several threads here about that. They make a big improvement, without the expense of 6" wheels and brakes.

I've been into Garden Valley and Cavanaugh Bay, both pretty good grass. Pay attention to slope - with the higher approach speed than many utility airplanes, you can chew up a short runway pretty fast if you land downhill.

The first RVs I saw were at Moose Creek, ID in the 1980s. They had the wheel pants on. Moose Creek often has a bit longer grass than some of the more popular strips but they did just fine. They were an RV-4 and an RV-6.

Dave

scsmith said:

An easy option to improve grass/dirt field capability is to put on 380x150-5.0 tires. Several threads here about that. They make a big improvement, without the expense of 6" wheels and brakes.

I've been into Garden Valley and Cavanaugh Bay, both pretty good grass. Pay attention to slope - with the higher approach speed than many utility airplanes, you can chew up a short runway pretty fast if you land downhill.

Click to expand...

Ditto on the 380X150 tires. I think they improve hard surface handling as well.

Here is a YouTube link of my RV8 landing at Johnson Creek for the first time. My wife recorded the experience on her phone from the back seat so it doesn't have great resolution. I've had my RV8 with wheel pants into the mentioned Johnson Creek and Smiley Creek. The grass is very nice to land on. Smiley is at 7200' elevation. The RV handles the density altitude nicely. (Not one for posting so I hope this works).
Thanks from the peanut gallery.


https://youtu.be/6UrM15H3Rc8

redhawk said:

I'd just like to hear of experiences flying a RV8 in some backcountry situations, namely Idaho/Montana. I'm thinking of buying a 8, and I know the RV's don't land all that slow for the shorter fields, as I currently have a -4. I never used my 4 that much for any backcountry due to it's limited gear space... Am I crazy for wanting to land a RV on some rougher surfaces?

Click to expand...

No.

However; I would note that the backcountry is not for everyone and it is harder on the airplane (at least an RV) than a typical airport. If maintaining a show quality airplane or uninterested in learning the necessary skills, then don't.

I've been taking my RV-3 and now RV-4 to the Idaho backcountry for more than ten years. My buddy usually takes his RV-4 or Carbon Cub but this past summer took his RV-8 on one trip. His report, as I recall, is that the gear is much stiffer (than the -4) and he was concerned with that so he did not go into some of our usual haunts. The primary issue is the 'undulations' that exist at many of the airstrips. These are usually due to the erosion strips that setup a sort of stair step type thing. When really bad, the RV-4 gear is really flexing to absorb this. The stiff RV-8 gear just doesn't do that and can result in some really ugly hobby-horse type action.

Jim ?? Is a caretaker at Johnson Creek and his RV-8 is usually there every time I visit. He flies it to many of the other airstrips. He has large tires.

My buddy and I have the larger 380x150 tires on all of our RV's. As already noted, this is not required for the more popular grass airstrips. Wheel skirts always take a beating, occasionally I'll take them off once I get to JC.

As already stated, the more popular airstrips are quite long and smooth. The others require much better technique, ability to evaluate an airstrip (from the air and then pick and choose your line - mostly due to gopher holes), and some are fairly demanding in terms of 'space' (as in tucked deep down in rather tight canyons, one way strips, etc.). Of course, some of the airstrips are just not RV friendly.

That said, I've been to all of the following with both -3 and -4.
Johnson Creek
Big Creek
Smiley Creek
Moose Creek
Chamberlain
Cold Meadows
Flying B
Upper Loon
Thomas Creek
Indian Creek

Johnson Creek - Approach from the north and landing
https://youtu.be/xu3XmmIFdLI

Big Creek landing and takeoff
https://youtu.be/hxBSY4tWHlo

Thomas Creek landing
https://youtu.be/aVTimgLvbXo

Thomas Creek takeoff
https://youtu.be/_09ai2Ho9m0

Upper Loon landing
https://youtu.be/C1Riheb7M7s

A bunch of others in my channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/jdfinley

To anyone landing their RV "fast" - I'd suggest getting that under control before heading to the backcountry. I'm most familiar with my RV-3 and RV-4 and an approach speed of 1.2 VS0 is more than adequate. I know many pilots prefer an approach speed of 1.5 to 1.7 VS0 but that is excessive and just won't work very well in the backcountry. There is also no ability to fly a 'typical' pattern (huge) in the backcountry. Being comfortable maneuvering at low speed is important as you don't have a lot of space inside many of the canyons plus you are spacing with Cub type airplanes.

The backcountry environment most definitely takes some getting used to. Density altitude, very limited maneuvering space, very close proximity to terrain/other traffic, and a different 'style' of air to air communication all seem to cause issues for the inexperienced. Usually resulting in tunnel vision which is what often causes accidents.