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Using the iPad as an EFB

SmittysRV

SmittysRV

Well Known Member
What do you think about the new apple iPad? It's kneeboard size and can store a lot of information. It also has audio outputs for music.
 
There's been a lot of discussion on this topic over at the Red Board. My .02 is that it will probbaly work fine, assuming the screen is at least somewhat sunlight readable. I love the form factor, but my problem with it is what you get for the price--a scaled up iPOD Touch. If I'm going to pay that kind of money, I really want more "laptop-like" functionality. If they ever give it an OS capable of multitasking and add a full-up USB port (I'll take a B port, but would prefer an A) I'd buy one ASAP. Unfortunlately, the lack of multitasking is the showstopper for me, although for an EFB you probably wouldn't need that as a feature.
 
Better hardware for the money

There is better hardware for the money on the market, or soon to be on the market.

I don't know if there is any iPhone (iTouch) software for aviation, if there is not, the iPad is not going to be very useful unless you are willing to do some serious hacking in order to put a different operating System on it. Other hardware will probably be more useful and more adaptable

So unless you already have a iPhone app that you just need a bigger screen for I would avoid buying an iPad. (plus it has no GPS built in :( )
 
The missing GPS seems to be the most unfortunate omission. The tech specs page on the apple site isn't very clear, or wasn't last time I checked. Only the 3G version indicated it would come with "assisted GPS". My guess is it will not really be GPS, but cell tower triangulation, which isn't useful for us.

On a tangent, I wish Apple would use a term other than GPS if it is in fact cell tower triangulation. The term is so misleading. There is nothing "global" about cell tower triangulation.


There are a lot of good aviation apps for the iphone however, and they should all work on the ipad. Maybe the device can be used with a bluetooth gps?

It appears the ipad won't be able to tether to my cell phone for internet access though, so I certainly won't be buying one. The Dell Mini 5 w/Android will be out soon though, and I'll probably buy one.
 
The iPad does have a true GPS but I don't know how well it works in an aviation environment. Also there are aviation apps for the iPhone and iPod Touch (Foreflight is a pretty good example), so out of the gate the iPad will have some EFB capability.
 
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Ah, you are right Todd. I just went and did some more searching. The assisted gps has a true gps unit and uses cell towers to speed up getting the gps fix. Unless someone has more info though, the apple site still shows gps only for the 3g model, making the entry price for a gps capable ipad $629.
 
rocketbob said:
my iPhone runs Skycharts just fine in the air...on the iPad I imagine it would be awesome.
Click to expand...

Same here! I use Skycharts when I go cross country and haven't had a problem with GPS coverage. Now, you put that on a big screen and it would be awesome! I don't have a problem with direct sunlight visibility for my IPhone. I hope the IPad display is as good!
 
Greg Arehart said:
I'll be very interested to see whether it is really sunlight-readable.

greg
Click to expand...

I can see Skycharts on my iPhone just fine in the sunlight. It is an amazing bargain at $10, which gets you all VFR charts, IFR charts, A/FD, approach plates, etc. and you are able to select what you want cached on your phone.
 
I also use skycharts, and no visibility issues on the iPhone, but the iPad is a larger area which might (?) mean less visibility. I am hoping it is as visible as the iPhone, in which case I could use it for all sorts of stuff, but primarily as the monitor for my wing camera, provided I can run the software on it...

greg
 
Apps

Is the skychart the only iPhone app for aviation?

Maybe there are other apps that could be developed...

A check list would be neat.
 
rocketbob said:
I can see Skycharts on my iPhone just fine in the sunlight. It is an amazing bargain at $10, which gets you all VFR charts, IFR charts, A/FD, approach plates, etc. and you are able to select what you want cached on your phone.
Click to expand...

I can't justify the monthly cost of iphone service, but I'd be interested in the ipod touch or ipad application. Has anyone added a gps to an ipod touch & used this software in flight? Would you consider it a reasonable replacement for a dedicated aviation gps? Does the software include a database of all airports (including private), waypoints, etc, that appear on the charts?

Thanks,

Charlie
 
I do consulting for vendors that make these devices:

Soon (<9 months) there will be a zillion android competitors to the iPad on the market, some with 3G some just with wifi. Some with an LCD some with eink (which might be better for approach plates).
 
iPad iPad iPad... love it!

picked up my iPad in the morning and had to cut my hangar time short to get my hands on it... love it! the web experience is just spectacular and photos are displayed more real than real. i have loaded up my construction photo library and am finding all sorts of ways to use it when traveling by air.

as a bonus it renders my website perfectly formatted for the display.

img4499.jpg
 
Not good in sunlight

I love my new IPad, but it's not good in sunlight, and has a surface with a lot of glare. i don't think it will work as an EFB. Otherwise, it's great. It really is. The interface works wonderfully.
 
Sunlight readability is poor, to be honest. Eink has it beat in that department. It will probably be a problem in a bubble canopy but high wing pilots might be ok. Fingerprints really become noticeable in bright light which compounds the problem of the display washing out.

It is fast and easy to navigate when viewing approach plates. Cool toy though, I'm enjoying it as an Internet appliance.
 
OK, as a Apple Junkie myself I've already decided I need one. Do you think the 16mb is enough memory? I'm thinking that is big enough unless you want to download more than 3 movies. What's your theory?
 
a consumption device... not storage

I have the basic 16 gig unit. It is a first generation device and I am sure that future units will address the inevitable shortcomings, but as an Internet interface on the couch, in a chair, at a cafe, or handed to a visitor, it will retain utility for a long time.

As for movies the screen and form factor are very well suited, and more than 10 hours on a charge is great but who wants to carry around a bunch of watched content... View it an toss it. For videos I use hanbrake to make a stand alone movie file that weighs in at around 850 meg each, so you could cram more then a dozen if that was your thing...

photo handling is just amazing and takes up a surprisingly modest amount of space since they are 'optimized' for the iPad prior to transfer.

As others have said forget about bright sunlight.
 
You might also try the new version of the ipad foreflight app. It lets you download approach plates, shows weather, terminal charts, vfr and ifr charts and more.

Chris.
 
sunlight viewing

the ipad screen brightness is similar to the iphone / ipod touch... it should be usable but it will have limitations in bright light especially with the high reflectivity of the screen, also similar to the iphone / ipod touch.
 
foreflight app, very cool... great rendering speed

just downloaded... very very nice. on the ipad the rendering speed of charts is fantastic!

i am hypnotized... the charts, weather, the comprehensive package of 'stuff' included. the download is free and gives a month of service, after that it is 25/quarter or 75/year... for a complete chart set, you pick what to download from airport diagrams, terminal procedures, vfr charts, ifr high and low... i don't see terminal charts though update - just keep zooming the vfr chart where a terminal exists and is appears... pretty seamless.
 
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Perhaps with an antireflective screen protector it would be a bit better. Would definitely help with finger smudges too. I'm gonna try one out, but am waiting on the 3GS version with AGPS.
 
Charlie, check out the forum here - I've had reports both the TomTom car kit and the iGPS360 works on the iTouch devices.
I'm just getting around to playing with the iPad myself, I'll get back if Apple has decided to change something with regards to allowing bluetooth gps devices:
http://www.skycharts.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=200

There is also a video of a really old version of SkyCharts here if interested:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw5OSFa93-Q

And yes, ALL FAA navigation fixes are included (about 69000!!).
NDB/VOR frequencies and phone number to ATIS/ASOS/AWOS are also included in the database (and you can simply call that number).
The app allows you to cache both charts (VFR/IFR/TAC) and the plates.
For VFR charts, it caches both the chart + A/FD and airport diagram
For IFR charts, it caches both the chart & ALL plates (including the A/FD)


rv7charlie said:
I can't justify the monthly cost of iphone service, but I'd be interested in the ipod touch or ipad application. Has anyone added a gps to an ipod touch & used this software in flight? Would you consider it a reasonable replacement for a dedicated aviation gps? Does the software include a database of all airports (including private), waypoints, etc, that appear on the charts?

Thanks,

Charlie
Click to expand...
 
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Used my neighbor's iPad outside today. Or shall I say I *tried* to use it. I couldn't even see the screen. Sunlight readability on the iPad is extremely disappointing.
 
Looks decent to me. If it's like the iPod Touch screen it will be OK... I think an antireflective screen protector would do it wonders too.
 
lucky said:
I think the Garmin 696 is going to make more sense for me overall.
Click to expand...

The 696 is great for viewing charts. But what is not so great is its annual subscription cost. With an eReader of some sort you can get all the charts you want for free...
 
this is just the beginning.

On my last flight, I covered the territory of 3 sectionals, 1 AF/D, 3 low-level IFR charts, and 3 Approach Plate books. That's just one flight. I have a fancy glass IFR cockpit, but despite all the glass in my cockpit, there's still some information on the charts that's not on my glass. Trying to keep the latest hardcopy of this stuff on hand in an RV is almost impractical, yet we must. Up till now, I've felt that most of the attempts for EFB products were unwieldy or demanded compromise. The iPad seems to be a pretty darn good platform for EFB. Everything from battery life to usability seems to be right.

The chart stuff I demo'd on the youtube video was mostly free. Both pdfplates and nacomatic do ask for donations (quite fairly) to keep their work going. If all you want is IFR plates, problem solved. I also now curious about downloading vfr sectionals and ifr enroute charts, and it looks like the FAA is charging $1.65 per each for those. Not bad, just not free.

ref:
http://naco.faa.gov/ecomp/Catalog.aspx?a=AERO+NOS+DIGITAL+DSEC


I haven't tried any of the purpose built apps that others have posted about yet. If I'm reading their FAQ's right, it looks like all the charts you can eat for the cost of their subscription. I didn't consider them previously for the iphone because I felt the screen size and battery life made it impractical to rely on in the cockpit. If I can't replace the paper reliably, it's worthless. With the ipad as a better platform, I'm cracking open the wallet. I guess I better go figure how to modify my paper chart subscription...
 
Thanks, Heikki; that's encouraging news. Now for your next assignment, how about that port to Android? That would solve most, if not all of the jailbreak issues that Apple/Microsoft presents us with.

Thanks,

Charlie
 
Time permitting I would love to!
Unfortunately I don't consider the app feature complete yet though, so it will have to wait.

Regarding GPS/iPad btw: I just tried pairing my old bluetooth GPS with the iPad and no go.

rv7charlie said:
Thanks, Heikki; that's encouraging news. Now for your next assignment, how about that port to Android? That would solve most, if not all of the jailbreak issues that Apple/Microsoft presents us with.

Thanks,

Charlie
Click to expand...
 
Grat video Don, I embedded it in a post on one my app site's news feed.

We've just completed the back-end work for the app directory which will allow users to filter the app list by platform (i.e. iPhone or iPad). It should go live, along with an app category filter, in about a week.
 
Jamie said:
Used my neighbor's iPad outside today. Or shall I say I *tried* to use it. I couldn't even see the screen. Sunlight readability on the iPad is extremely disappointing.
Click to expand...

Did you try it without your sunglasses? The iPad has a polarizing filter, bad mix with polarized sunglasses.

George
 
GPS???

So there's some conflicting info? Does it have a gps or not?

Will the 3g have real gps or cell phone triangulation?

Point being...is there an app that will deliver the charts/plates in a georeferenced fashion?
 
BlndRvtr said:
Did you try it without your sunglasses? The iPad has a polarizing filter, bad mix with polarized sunglasses.

George
Click to expand...

I tried with and without sunglasses -- in the shade and in direct sunlight. Even in the shade I found the screen to be barely readable.
 
The wifi version does NOT have a gps.
SkyHook provides WPS data for the iPad/iPhone/iTouch devices, works surprisingly well, but of course not when you want it...
http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/wps.php

The iPad 3G version will supposedly be out end of April.
The 3G version uses XPS, http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/xps.php

So besides the terms, what does it mean ?
For wifi - if you stay on street level it works surprisingly well.
For 3G - assuming you get a tower fix BEFORE you go airborne it also works.
Just don't expect to pick up any GPS fixes while airborne and out of coverage, it will most likely never pick up a fix for you...

Please, stay in coverage when you start ALL 'location services' applications. If they cache data they will work once you reach 'no service' areas as well.
But again, if you QUIT the app once in a 'no service' are don't expect to the app to find you again.

So - once the 3G comes out, or if you're willing to 'jailbreak' your device you can use your device offline.
Again, I really don't say anyone should jailbreak their devices, but Apple, please let people pair up GPS devices without having to do something drastic.
For the record: since I need a clean environment for development, I have NOT any jail-broken devices, but I have reports at least the iTouch works with
external GPS devices. Search the forum please..
Someone can probably fill in on the iPad jailbreak status. Again, this is NOT recommended, last time I heard you will VOID your warranty if Apple finds out you did.


cawmd82 said:
So there's some conflicting info? Does it have a gps or not?

Will the 3g have real gps or cell phone triangulation?

Point being...is there an app that will deliver the charts/plates in a georeferenced fashion?
Click to expand...
 
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The non 3G ipad does have GPS

I had my ipad out at the airport today and was running the google earth application. It would track my position as I rode around the airport on a golf cart.
 
tturner said:
I had my ipad out at the airport today and was running the google earth application. It would track my position as I rode around the airport on a golf cart.
Click to expand...
According to Apple, only the 3G version of the iPad has GPS

Location

* Wi-Fi
* Digital compass
* Assisted GPS (Wi-Fi + 3G model)
* Cellular (Wi-Fi + 3G model)

http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/

There is some limited positional function based on WiFi sites with the non-GPS model.

I am very disappointed with what glider says about the iPad GPS not working unless it is initialized in a location with a data signal, and it sounds like you know what you speak of sir. I am waiting for the 3G model, just to get that GPS. That is what my present smart phone does and I hate it and do not understand the reason for it.

I have a first generation iPod Touch which I wanted to use with a GPS application so I bought a small GPS that plugs into the iPod and jailbroke the phone. It is all a big kluge and only works with some of the GPS applications available for the iPhone, and not the one I bought it for.
 
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Ipad and GPS

Larry

I believe it does need some form of wifi initialization. I was connected to wifi at the airport before I started driving around in a golf cart and it tracked fine even when outside of the wifi range. Later I turned it on when I was driving in the car and it would not lock on to a location or track. I tried it at my house with a wifi connection and have not been able to get a lock here. Don't leave it sitting in the sun, it shut down after about 15 minutes and gave an over heat warning. Let cool for 10 minutes it is running again.
 
1. Did the folks who tried the iPad in sunlight adjust the screen brightness?

2. Once locked on, why would the GPS version not maintain its knowledge of its position? GPS isn't based upon ground stations.

David Paule
 
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