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  #11  
Old 04-20-2021, 12:35 AM
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Lufthans Lufthans is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hilversum, The Netherlands
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Very little to add to the excellent points above, other than you might consider installing a C/S prop on it, if overspending during aerobatics is what you are afraid of. A prop flattening out can be quite an effective aero brake when compared to a fixed pitch prop.

Or indeed... be careful and just enjoy the aircraft for what it is... :-)
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  #12  
Old 04-20-2021, 05:53 AM
Skysailor Skysailor is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 267
Default Ask Smokey

I tried to locate the Vne article on the new Vans site but had no luck. Google had no trouble finding it. Smokey (on the forum here) may be able to send it to you as he wrote part of it.
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  #13  
Old 04-21-2021, 12:04 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeCee 57 View Post
Was looking for this on Mothership‘s site the other day, but couldn’t find it... any idea where that bulletin is
Thanx!
https://www.vansaircraft.com/faq/hor...epower-engine/
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  #14  
Old 04-21-2021, 01:57 PM
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DeeCee 57 DeeCee 57 is offline
 
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Thanks Scott and Skysailor.

I'm aware of said 5 pages containing various articles about not installing turbos, not installing engines that are too powerful in the RV-9, Smokey's report, etc, thanks. This document is found in the SUPPORT, TECH Q&A.

The use of TAS iso IAS as Vne is serious matter, and I thought a safety bulletin specifically addressing this had been published, and that I might have missed it

Instead we have an actual table, see https://www.vansaircraft.com/faq/air...ings-by-model/, where the Red Line figures don't even mention being TAS
Even worse, section 15 of most construction manuals presents a table labeled Airspeed Indicator Markings for all models, the legend for the highest speeds listed being: Red Line: VNE IAS (Maximum permissible speed under any condition)

IMHO, quite a few builders, plus an increasing number of RV buyers are not aware of the TAS as Vne limitation...
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  #15  
Old 04-21-2021, 04:09 PM
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grubbat grubbat is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ga
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Default Kicking a dead horse

The topic of VNE, IAS, TAS has been discussed at length through the decades on VAF and at Vans. I along with BillL and others have tried to get some movement at Vans concerning this but to date no response except for what has already been shared publicly. I would imagine that there are other factors at play here so I won’t sit on judgement except to say that folks who operate a Vans aircraft design without knowledge of TAS limitations should not be flying. However, that’s just my opinion and my motivation for being blunt is maybe to shock someone into doing their due diligence BEFORE strapping in and before hauling a passenger. In this case, ignorance is not a defense, just another causation event and higher insurance and a smaller pilot pool.
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  #16  
Old 04-22-2021, 09:24 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeCee 57 View Post
Thanks Scott and Skysailor.

I'm aware of said 5 pages containing various articles about not installing turbos, not installing engines that are too powerful in the RV-9, Smokey's report, etc, thanks. This document is found in the SUPPORT, TECH Q&A.

The use of TAS iso IAS as Vne is serious matter, and I thought a safety bulletin specifically addressing this had been published, and that I might have missed it

Instead we have an actual table, see https://www.vansaircraft.com/faq/air...ings-by-model/, where the Red Line figures don't even mention being TAS
Even worse, section 15 of most construction manuals presents a table labeled Airspeed Indicator Markings for all models, the legend for the highest speeds listed being: Red Line: VNE IAS (Maximum permissible speed under any condition)

IMHO, quite a few builders, plus an increasing number of RV buyers are not aware of the TAS as Vne limitation...
We are fully aware of the disconnect between these different pieces of information and there is effort underway to correct it.
I know that has been mentioned before, but with the man power and other challenges that have occurred in the past year, it just hasn't happened yet.
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  #17  
Old 04-22-2021, 11:59 AM
FinnFlyer FinnFlyer is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Bell, FL
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Greg, shouldn't be too difficult to add a little box on at least the (safety) https://www.vansaircraft.com/service...and-revisions/ page saying: "Note: Vne is TAS not IAS!" maybe with a link to the https://www.vansaircraft.com/faq/hor...epower-engine/ page when you click on the box.

Finn
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  #18  
Old 04-22-2021, 03:45 PM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
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This discussion was going around our hangar a while back. Just to be clear VNE being defined as IAS or TAS is based on many things. Many aircraft use IAS for VNE. It comes down to what are the limiting factors in a specific airframe design. If for example the flutter margin is above the airspeed where non flutter structural failure can occur than IAS will probably be used to define VNE. If flutter occurs before possible structural failure than TAS would probably be used. Vans seems to have provided clear guidance that TAS is applicable to the RV airframes but that does not extend to other types. Each is unique.
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  #19  
Old 04-22-2021, 08:32 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767 View Post
This discussion was going around our hangar a while back. Just to be clear VNE being defined as IAS or TAS is based on many things. Many aircraft use IAS for VNE.
e.
Actually, ALL type certificated aircraft use IAS for Vne, because the FARs require it. (A placard stating different Vne, in IAS, for different altitudes, is allowed.) Although EAB aircraft are exempt from this (part 23) rule, it is nonetheless somewhat confusing to owners new to EAB that Vans chose to go a different way.
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