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OSH and Chicago airspace

C-FAH Q

Well Known Member
First off, please pardon my rant. Secondly, please spread the word of this email to anyone you know who will be travelling to Oshkosh, it may save someone's life.

Last year, while returning home from Oshkosh on Tuesday morning I encountered some eye opening events. I was talking with Chicago centre as soon as I was able to reach them, not being cleared in to class "b" I stayed with the same controller for quite a while. During the lakeshore portion of the flight, I encountered approximately 30 aircraft going the opposite direction, and one going the same direction. Of these 30 aircraft, I was the only one talking with Chicago! Not only that, most did not have a transponder, or had one turned on. Now, I realize it's not mandatory to talk with them, nor is it mandatory for others to have transponders below the class "b", but in safety's sake! come on folks.
One of the encounters, the controller pointed out was a strange return he was getting and thought it might be birds but was showing to fast to be. I finally got sight of the return he was getting.....three RV's( a ten and two 4's)in a veryyyyy loose formation with a altitude difference of approx 300'. I mentioned this to the controller to which he verbally was shaking his head. I asked again to be cleared to the class "b", which was returned with a " sorry, wish I could do that" reply.
The one airplane I seen going the same direction was a 172 which I came across later at Valpariso. He said he had just came down the lake shore and never seen a thing. I politely asked if he had a radio and transponder to which his reply was" yea, but I ain't turning them on in that area". I mention there was about 30 airplanes that went past, over and under him in that lake stretch and he was gob stopped. I also said, If he had been talking, and had his transponder on, we would all be given the opportunity to make it all the way home. He agreed,thanked me and we went on our way.
So, sorry for the rant. But please, at very least, turn on your transponder for safety's sake.

Pass it on, we don't need to take each other out of the skies.

Rant complete.
 
It is mandatory that you have a transponder with mode "C" ON while IN, ABOVE or BELOW Class B airspace. I would avoid the lake shore in any case. Stay west of ARR and DPA and you will fair better. Above 10k feet is the best.
 
The reality is that Chicago isn't going to provide separation for that many VFR aircraft outside of its airspace. Imagine the sector controller trying to manage 30 low altitude VFR targets along the shoreline. Ain't gonna happen.

So keep your eyes peeled.
 
It is mandatory that you have a transponder with mode "C" ON while IN, ABOVE or BELOW Class B airspace. It.

Perfect, makes you wonder why they would not use it. I use mine all the time, and can't fathom turning it off.
 
You don't have to be "in, above, or below" class B for transponder use to be required. It is required within the 30 mile veil. Which sometimes is not over, or under depending on the shape of the class B. However flying the lakeshore in Chicago is definitely under unless you are scary far out there.

There is no explaining the scary/stupid/dangerous things some pilots do on the to/from trips to Oshkosh. It's gotten me to the point of agonizing on whether to even go or not. Getting to fly in the price admission is worth it. The hassle, long day, and large admission make driving, or riding the motorcycle not worth it. Haven't been in quite a few years and miss it, but get an ulcer when thinking about the significantly reduced safety, or hassle and expense of going. :(

Mark
 
There is no explaining the scary/stupid/dangerous things some pilots do on the to/from trips to Oshkosh. It's gotten me to the point of agonizing on whether to even go or not. Getting to fly in the price admission is worth it. The hassle, long day, and large admission make driving, or riding the motorcycle not worth it. Haven't been in quite a few years and miss it, but get an ulcer when thinking about the significantly reduced safety, or hassle and expense of going. :(

If you consider the number of flight hours involved in going to Oshkosh and the number of accidents involved, I doubt it is any less safe than flying in general. Sure, it seems like there is at least one accident each year, but with thousands of planes going and coming, that's not a bad statistic. There are a lot of scary this people do on the roads, but a good, alert, defensive driver can avoid mishap in most cases. Same goes with flying to Oshkosh, or flying in general for that matter.
 
Recommendation

<SNIP>There is no explaining the scary/stupid/dangerous things some pilots do on the to/from trips to Oshkosh. It's gotten me to the point of agonizing on whether to even go or not. Getting to fly in the price admission is worth it. The hassle, long day, and large admission make driving, or riding the motorcycle not worth it. Haven't been in quite a few years and miss it, but get an ulcer when thinking about the significantly reduced safety, or hassle and expense of going. :(

Mark

From your location, you should be able to depart in a 172 or similar aircraft at approximately 5:30 AM and arrive at Ripon at or before 7:00 AM. You'd be amazed how few pilots fly in at that time of morning. In 2006 and 2012, I flew from Alabama to Dekalb, Ilinois, spent the night in a nearby hotel, and arrived at Ripon at around 7:00AM. Both times I was the only traffic in line, all the way from Ripon to Oshkosh!! For me, that's the only way to arrive at Airventure. :)
 
Very true statement.

Flying to me is relaxation and enjoyment (when it isn't what I'm doing to earn a paycheck, and even then sometimes it is). Sharing the air with a larger number of folks on their way to Oshkosh doing the things they do and is not relaxing, or enjoyable to me even if I do agree with your statistics. I have too strong of a desire to ask then what they are thinking.....

Mark
 
Went over the top of Chicago airspace (around the bottom of the lake)a couple of weeks ago. They gave me flight following both ways (probably isn't, going to happen during OSH week). I had planned on cutting the corner by staying out over the lake but still within glide distance of shore. One controller advised that if I stayed over the shoreline I would avoid the arrival/departure corridors they were using (I would be above them). Much prefer being above rather that through or below. Worked the day of my flight but might be different other days depending on runways in use.
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If you consider the number of flight hours involved in going to Oshkosh and the number of accidents involved, I doubt it is any less safe than flying in general. Sure, it seems like there is at least one accident each year, but with thousands of planes going and coming, that's not a bad statistic. There are a lot of scary this people do on the roads, but a good, alert, defensive driver can avoid mishap in most cases. Same goes with flying to Oshkosh, or flying in general for that matter.

Before I retired, safety at the test area had hit a plateau, a floor. We had to start counting and addressing near misses with investigation and reporting for root causes. It worked, but was painful for the 300 engineers and technicians. We don't do that now in general aviation. Things just don't get reported and there may be good reasons.

When driving for 2.5 hrs a day in commuting by car, i notice that one serious accident was avoided about every 1.5 hours. Something serious, where one vehicle had to take immediate and aggressive action to avoid, or there was an extremely close near miss. Each time it was one very stupid action that began the event. I wonder what the flying frequency of these are.

Safe flying to all for OSH this year.
 
This will be my first trip to OSH and I had planned on overflying the KORD Bravo air space just about dead over the airport. Any issues with that?
 
This will be my first trip to OSH and I had planned on overflying the KORD Bravo air space just about dead over the airport. Any issues with that?

Just to reduce the chance of any issues, I always swing left of the Class B. Makes for an easy approach into Ripon. I have done this route a few times now and it works great for me.

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This will be my first trip to OSH and I had planned on overflying the KORD Bravo air space just about dead over the airport. Any issues with that?

That's probably the safest place.

When we lived in SE WI, we often flew in Chicago airspace. It wasn't unusual for a harried approach controller to say "Remain Clear of Bravo, Charlie and Delta airspace", especially during Oshkosh week. IMHO, the best way to transition Chicago is over them. WAY over them.
 
Just to reduce the chance of any issues, I always swing left of the Class B. Makes for an easy approach into Ripon. I have done this route a few times now and it works great for me.

This is a point that is often overlooked, but cannot be stressed too much: Lining up your approach to match the FISK approach when well outside of Ripon is a very, very good idea.

Example: Coming from Iowa City, we always flew a course (if I'm remembering right) of 043 degrees. This put us PRECISELY on the same track as the FISK approach coming out of Ripon.

Why did this matter? We (there were usually between 5 and 10 of us) were able to cruise straight into the approach, without any maneuvering over the crowded skies above Ripon.

This may seem trivial, but in a high workload environment, anything you can do to save yourself effort is worthwhile. This year, we are overnighting in Prairie du Chien, WI, which will give us roughly the same entry angle. We chose that city with that in mind.

Fly safe, all! T-minus 11 days to launch!
 
Transponder

Transponder/mode C is NOT REQUIRED under class Bravo for aircraft that were not equipped with an electrical system when manufactured. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of aircraft that do not require a Transponder.
 
. I politely asked if he had a radio and transponder to which his reply was" yea, but I ain't turning them on in that area".

Pass it on, we don't need to take each other out of the skies.

Rant complete.

Are pilots really that ignorant? If you have a transponder (and it's been tested within the last two years) then there is no option, you are required to have it on.
(unless ATC directs otherwise, like the Oshkosh NOTAM).
 
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