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Dynon Skyview or Garmin G3X

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Rvglen

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I am in the process of a panel upgrade for my RV-6. I am trying to decide between a 10" Dynon Skyview Touch based panel and 7" Garmin G3X based system (GDU370 Portrait orientation or GDU450 Landscape orientation.) I am also planning on installing a new Garmin GTR 200 Comm and Autopilot. Being a RV-6 with what I believe to be somewhat limited upside, overall cost is a consideration. Because I do use Foreflight, I have to say that the WIFI connectivity of flight plans between iPad Foreflight and Skyview is attractive to me.

I would welcome any recommendations from those more experienced than I.

Thank you,

Glen
 
Whoops sorry, I note that I posted this in classifieds. I think that it should be moved to maybe General Discussion. Sorry.
 
I understand and agree that this post was in the incorrect category. Unfortunately, I am not seeing where it got moved to. Please advise. Thanks
 
Him or Me.

Everyone has his likes and dislikes. I loved Dynon for a long time. In the end I chose to pay the extra and its not that much more to go with the Garmin G3X. I will not try to turn your head ether way but if you are trying to save money, your PFD is not a good place to do it. Paint it yourself, that will more than make up the difference. Hope this helps. Yours as always. R.E.A. III #80888
 
I'm a big fan of the Dynon Skyview. I've installed a couple and have one 10" in my 7. I am also installing a G3X for a friend so I can tell you about the installation differences. The G3X components are larger..transponder and radio are twice the size of the Skyview. AP panel is twice as big. G3X has a separate compass and ADHRS so there's an other thing to mount and both are angle sensitive. For an 8 there is room behind the panel, but on a 6 most of these boxes will mounted behind the sub panel where access is hard. The G3X's remote mount transponder may not fit at all and may need to be mounted in back. It's 3 times the size and weight of the Dynon. The Dynon manual is better and the wiring is simpler. Garmin will make you memorize a bunch of their component numbers as they rarely call a box by it's name. Plan twice the hours for the installation.

The G3X does have better connectors...more aviation grade than commercial grade of the Dynon. But they are bigger too. The G3X AP has clutch servos with trim control. The Dynon has no clutches, but you can't feel them in flight..only on the ground. I think Dynon recently added trim control.

I have yet to fly behind the Garmin so I'm no help there, but it looks very similar to the Skyview.
 
G3X

I don't pretend to be unbiased. Garmin G3X came down from the certified G1000. Skyview, came up to where it is now. Good stuff no doubt, but Garmin is the industry leader, and will be here when others have vanished.
 
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If at all possible, get some stick time behind both. Play around with them, see which one you like more. Personally, I find the Skyview very easy and intuitive to use; I couldn't make heads or tails of the non-touch G3X when I played with it at Oshkosh.
 
If at all possible, get some stick time behind both. Play around with them, see which one you like more. Personally, I find the Skyview very easy and intuitive to use; I couldn't make heads or tails of the non-touch G3X when I played with it at Oshkosh.


The non-touch G3X (which I profess to love) uses the same basic "buttonology" as their portable units have for years, so if you come from the Garmin portable GPS world the transistion is very easy and natural. I'm still lost on an ipad or smartphone so playing with the touch was not all that intuitive for me.
 
I don't pretend to be unbiased. Garmin G3X came down from the certified G1000. Skyview, came up to where it is now. Good stuff no doubt, but Garmin is the industry leader, and will be here when others have vanished.
Same idea but i reach the opposite conclusion. Dynon has a long track record of supporting old products and making new features backward compatible. Garmin does the opposite, products become obsolete and orphaned by design. I'd stick with the company that is going to be around AND will support the stuff they sold you. That aint garmin. If they orphan the big $ certified boxes, they will be even quicker to let go of their downmarket versions.
 
Same idea but i reach the opposite conclusion. Dynon has a long track record of supporting old products and making new features backward compatible. Garmin does the opposite, products become obsolete and orphaned by design. I'd stick with the company that is going to be around AND will support the stuff they sold you. That aint garmin. If they orphan the big $ certified boxes, they will be even quicker to let go of their downmarket versions.

I guess I just imagined Dynon totally leaving the legacy DXXX users behind with no upgrade path and never making good on the AP-76 for the legacy users.

Respectfully, your reference does not tell the whole story.
 
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Experience

I have installed multiples of the G3X and AFS/Dynon systems into many RV's. I am a personal fan of the AFS due to the smaller and lighter components, which is a very important consideration for our RV's. I am willing to discuss this with you any time if I can be of any help in your decision-making.
In the end, though, don't get caught up in who is going to be around. I think both Dynon/AFS and Garmin have disproven that theory with some very rock-solid and long-lived products. What is important is how it all works for you and how you most enjoy using it. It's the same reason why we all marry/hang out with different types of people--- everyone views beauty through a different lens. It doesn't necessarily make one better or worse than the other. It's what makes the world go around, and luckily we have many choices with regards to EFIS's now. :)
Vic
 
Let's not forget Dynon's history either. Years of telling us XM was in the next update, years of saying there was no problem with their heated pitot tube dispite them icing up, etc. I had Dynon in my plane....pulled it out for Garmin And wouldn't go back if it were free. Everything about Garmin equipment is aviation quality. Comparing the connectors in my G3X system to that of my D6 backup is literally like comparing aluminum to plastic. Mounts, screens, buttons, accuracy of altitudes in the same panel with the same feeds....Garmin is well and truly ahead. Their manufacturing muscle and development speed isn't even comparable. As for weight, metal always weighs more than plastic. I doubt we are talking about anything more than 5lbs either way which is totally irrelevant considering the CG of where it's installed.

As always, go to Oshkosh or SnF and play with all of them. Walk behind the displays and play with the connectors, look at the box and trays. Make up your own mind.
 
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Can I see a show of hands from people that have installed XM and now don't use it? The handwriting was on the wall with ADS-B, and Dynon went that route. I never heard them claim XM compatibility and I frankly never wanted it.

On the Pitot, I give a huge kudos to Dynon for coming up with a new version and replacing all of the existing units for free. To me that's huge.

How about a kudos to Garmin for making the 650/750 a drop-in replacement for the 430/530. Oh wait, they didn't. You have to get your stack rewired to upgrade. To me that's just shows their loyalty and support for avionics shops, not customers. Also, Garmin, even though the G3X is experimental, still requires that you buy through a repair station. They just can't get their mind wrapped around the way things work in the experimental world.
 
I had XM until the GDL39 came out. Dumped it ASAP and never missed it!

Now I have Freeflight for my ADSb OUT using AFS5400 and GDU375 to receive free traffic and weather! :)

As soon as AFS updates their software I will add the Dynon's Wifi to feed my CFO GIB's Foreflight app iPad with cloned geeWiz stuff :D
 
I guess I just imagined Dynon totally leaving the legacy DXXX users behind with no upgrade path and never making good on the AP-76 for the legacy users.

Brian,
We offered a 50% discount on people transitioning from the D series to SkyView, and the EMS was a drop in replacement. Sounds like a pretty awesome upgrade path. Plus, we still sell and repair the D series 12 years after it was first sold, which sounds like a really great history on supporting a product, which was the question, not if Dynon always promised any product could always be upgraded to any new product. We've now sold and supported the D series for TWICE as long as Garmin sold the 430W (2006-2011) which had no upgrade path..

The announcement of the AP-76 was a mistake from 8 years ago when we were a much younger company. We don't do that anymore.

I think the fact that your two examples come from 6 and 8 years ago bodes well for us in a market where some of our competitors have only been in this space for 4 years.
 
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Let's not forget Dynon's history either. Years of telling us XM was in the next update, years of saying there was no problem with their heated pitot tube dispite them icing up, etc.

Dynon never promised XM. We discussed having weather, and eventually decided on ADS-B, which we have had for years now. We do not believe we made any promises to anyone before we had weather on what delivery technology we would use.

We're sorry that you're disappointed with our handling of the heated pitot, however the vast majority of what we hear is nothing but immense praise for the fact that we replaced, for free, things we first sold 7 years earlier and took years to even hear a single customer report of an issue with. We also did tremendous work to make it a simple drop in replacement. All of that proves an immense commitment on Dynon's part to support our customers long term even when it comes at a large financial expense to us.

--Ian Jordan
Dynon Avionics
 
I am in the process of a panel upgrade for my RV-6. I am trying to decide between a 10" Dynon Skyview Touch based panel and 7" Garmin G3X based system (GDU370 Portrait orientation or GDU450 Landscape orientation.) I am also planning on installing a new Garmin GTR 200 Comm and Autopilot. Being a RV-6 with what I believe to be somewhat limited upside, overall cost is a consideration. Because I do use Foreflight, I have to say that the WIFI connectivity of flight plans between iPad Foreflight and Skyview is attractive to me.

I would welcome any recommendations from those more experienced than I.

Thank you,

Glen

Hi Glen,

Curious as to why you are comparing 7" and 10" systems. As you are probably aware, we do offer a 10.6" G3X Touch display and pricing is very competitive. Feel free to reach out to us at [email protected] and we would be glad to work directly with you and make sure you have the facts you need to make your decision.

Thanks,
Brian
 
Brian,
We offered a 50% discount on people transitioning from the D series to SkyView, and the EMS was a drop in replacement. Sounds like a pretty awesome upgrade path. Plus, we still sell and repair the D series 12 years after it was first sold, which sounds like a really great history on supporting a product, which was the question, not if Dynon always promised any product could always be upgraded to any new product. We've now sold and supported the D series for TWICE as long as Garmin sold the 430W (2006-2011) which had no upgrade path..

The announcement of the AP-76 was a mistake from 8 years ago when we were a much younger company. We don't do that anymore.

I think the fact that your two examples come from 6 and 8 years ago bodes well for us in a market where some of our competitors have only been in this space for 4 years.

Ian,

Yes I forgot about the discount Dynon offered folks to entice them to rip out most of their avionics wiring and to replumb their entire pitot/static system. My bad.

"Dynon has a long track record of supporting old products and making new features backward compatible."

It was the second half of this statement that I was referring to. I agree, Dynon has a well proven history of supporting their legacy products.

Not sure why you are comparing yourself with Garmin and the GNS/W series. The original GNS series has been around a lot longer than you suggested and had a clear upgrade path to the /W series. In the certified world (of which Dynon does not play) things happen quite a bit differently than the experimental world which you are well aware of. What happens when a critical component used in one of your older products becomes unavailable with no cost effective replacement?

I agree that the AP-76 fiasco was a mistake however it does seem that Dynon learned a bunch with that mistake. I also think the change in upper leadership did Dynon some good.

You are correct, Dynon has improved over the years and has been successful in this market. Even swallowing a company with a more advanced (and more expensive) product line. No question that Dynon is good competition for Garmin. On the flip side Garmin has also done some pretty awesome stuff in this market and has enabled pilots of experimentals to enjoy the benefits of advanced IFR flight for years and years. They executed a huge paradigm shift within their organization with the creation and continued support of TeamX and the experimental products. No question that Garmin is good competition for Dynon.

I think there are pros and cons to both Garmin and Dynon. It is never a one sided victory as some would love to suggest. I personally would never discount either one from a future purchase decision. I have had both in the past and still have both in my panel. I doubt that would change in the future in the event of a panel makeover.

Anyway good debating with you but I am in recovery mode from a 10 mile Wounded Warrior race that I ran this morning so I am out of here! :p
 
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I have been VERY happy with my Skyview system. Not that my IPAD/Foreflight talks to Skyview it's even better. For me it is all about the free Data updates. Maybe I am just careless, but if I have to buy an update I am just not likely to do it very often. The ease and expense of keeping my Skyview Data updated is painless.

Thank Skyview!
 
Ian,

Yes I forgot about the discount Dynon offered folks to entice them to rip out most of their avionics wiring and to replumb their entire pitot/static system. My bad.

"Dynon has a long track record of supporting old products and making new features backward compatible."

It was the second half of this statement that I was referring to. I agree, Dynon has a well proven history of supporting their legacy products.

Brian,

How well does your new G3X Touch EFIS work with your old G3X EFIS that you only installed a few years ago?

Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
 
Brian,

How well does your new G3X Touch EFIS work with your old G3X EFIS that you only installed a few years ago?

Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10

Works fine with the rest of the system that was left behind after I upgraded the screens. Almost plug and play. Yes in the beginning I was shocked that Garmin decided not to allow the touch and non touch screens to play with each other but once I understood the significant capability differences between the two products, that concern was long forgotten about.
 
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If Dynon had required you to replace all the EFIS screens in the aircraft when adding a touch screen version I doubt that the concern would be "long forgotten about" on this forum.

Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
 
If Dynon had required you to replace all the EFIS screens in the aircraft when adding a touch screen version I doubt that the concern would be "long forgotten about" on this forum.

Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10

True but slapping a touch screen overlay on top of an existing design is much different than designing a touch enabled product from the ground up. Not to mention the fact that the touch features are just a small portion of the reason one would upgrade from the original G3X to the Touch.

You win, I am tired. :p
 
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I am grateful for both being around. Neither would exist without the other competing with each other. The Yin and Yang of experimental avionics. I hope both are around for a long time. ;)

I shudder to think of a world with just a single 900 lb gorilla doing whatever it wished.
 
Curious as to why you're not considering the GRT Horizon Hxr?

We have had this amazing EFIS in our RV-8A for a smidge over a year, now, and couldn't be happier. It has been bulletproof and does everything I want it to do, flawlessly.
 
Which works Best for You?

I have been incrdibly fortuanet to be able to fly pretty much all of the systems available to the Experimental market - first as a Beta tester for several folks, and now as teh Editor in Chief of Kitplanes. Stein and I have given a seminar for the past five or six years at Oshkosh on "Choosing an EFIS" - and are proud of the fact that we have never actually made a recomendation to the group on "the best EFIS". There isn't one - only what is best for you.

Right now, through accidents of timing and availability, we have one RV with all GRT equipment, and I love it. We have one RV with G3X and original screens - and I love it. And finally, we have another RV with G3X Touch - just flew that on its first cross-country trip down the Sierrra yesterday, and I love that too! All of then have things I would do differently if I had the chance, but all of those things are minor.

Now Dynon is going to consign us a full Skyview system (because of my position with the magazine) for a new project we have in the works - a Dream Tundra bush plane. We're really looking forward to writing about the install and getting a chance to fly with it. I actually like having a varied fleet becasue it gives me a better chance to help others understand what is out there.

I long ago realized that comparisons, or picking a "winner" between systems is silly - theyre all pretty good these days. Garmin does well, GRT does well, Dynon does well, AFS does well - and MGL has a happy, loyal following as well.

As we have all said many times - you have to get out and try and hopefully fly - the systems yourself to see what works best FOR YOU. The market decides the survivability of the companies - and so far all of the ones mentioned are still surviving. It is an amazing spectrum from which to choose!

Paul
 
Dynon vs Garmin

As a Skyview user it is interesting to read the Pros and Cons of each system and I can't wait for Oshkosh to finally have a chance to try the Garmin G3X Touch system.

If there is one thing that I wish Dynon will do, is offering a 7'' Skyview Touch like Garmin did with the G3X Touch.

I like Dynon but sometime I have the feeling that the 7'' Skyview users are not important to them..

If they come up with one upgrade program like they did for the 10'',I'll be their first customer.

Bruno
[email protected]
 
I have installed multiples of the G3X and AFS/Dynon systems into many RV's. I am a personal fan of the AFS due to the smaller and lighter components, which is a very important consideration for our RV's. I am willing to discuss this with you any time if I can be of any help in your decision-making.
In the end, though, don't get caught up in who is going to be around. I think both Dynon/AFS and Garmin have disproven that theory with some very rock-solid and long-lived products. What is important is how it all works for you and how you most enjoy using it. It's the same reason why we all marry/hang out with different types of people--- everyone views beauty through a different lens. It doesn't necessarily make one better or worse than the other. It's what makes the world go around, and luckily we have many choices with regards to EFIS's now. :)
Vic

Vic,

I appreciate your comments on the AFS.

I recently bought an RV-8 with an AFS-4500, Garmin 430 W and Garmin 327 Transponder. I've been following all these EFIS related posts collecting info on which way to go (G3X, Dynon, AFS, others) to become 2020 ADS-B complaint and maybe upgrade to a touch type system that offers actual sectionals and some other features mentioned already.

You indicated you are willing to discuss this subject further to assist and help in decision-making. I would like to get your personal insight on some of this.

I will PM you.

Ulrich,

Same. Your comments on the differences in size and complexity are excellent. Thank you for the insight. You live pretty close by, I would love to see your work sometime.

Charlie
 
You could put in a 1090ES transponder or a stand-alone unit like the Navworx box.
 
I think both systems are good systems. With that said, I went with Garmin for a couple of reasons:

1. The autopilot is basically the same system in the G1000/700 series autopilot. The servos are top quality units.

2. The G3X works just like my GTN650 and my Garmin pilot app, so there was very little new to learn.

3. When I go to re-sell I believe more people will be interested in the Garmin equipment.

To me, the fact that a GTN requires re-wire after owning a GNS system for 12 years is not a big deal to me. Also, since these systems are so cheap it would not matter to me if I bought the old non-touch and had to buy a touch system. I would not want a hybrid system in my plane. I like the clean look of two identical screens.

I'm glad both companies are around and hope they both do well.
 
One area Garmin is dropping the ball is in the area of a stand alone EFIS just for ADAHRS. I currently have the dual screen G3X with twin ADAHRS units along with an ipad with a separate GDL-393D to have a truly redundant and separate system. I did not want to mix my panel with different brands, so I went this route. I would have gladly paid another $1500 for a stand alone unit like Dynon has.
 
Agree Kurt. The Dynon touch interface is Best of both worlds.
 
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Visit manufacturers if you can. Fly with the boxes you're interested in if you can. Play with them on the ground if you can. Watch the videos. Read the literature. Then make the best decision for yourself. You won't be wrong. .

I agree almost completely. Adding a touch-screen to an existing design makes all the sense in the world to me. The upgrade path from Skyview to Skyview Touch is almost nothing, maybe 5 minutes to swap out a screen. Also, there was a financial discount on the upgrade path as well. Also, if you have 2 or 3 Skyview screens and want to just upgrade one to touch, you can, and they all talk to eachother. Also, if you want the touch features, you have them, but if you don't want to touch because of turbulence or something like that, then you still have the buttons. I understand that the GTN touch screens have a feature in the bezel to steady your hand. How do you do so on the 7" or 10" G3X Touch.

The backwards compatibility of the Dynon and AFS systems, and GRT for that matter, are remarkable. Dynon has had the Skyview system out for how many years? The newest options are still compatible with the original options. The AFS 5600 will integrate with the new modules by Dynon as well as the old 3400's from even longer ago than the Skyview was born. I believe the GRT HXr will still talk to the old WS screen. That's remarkable.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I understand he argument that going from a 12-year-old 430 to a new 650 is worth rewiring, but Garmin could have designed the 650 around the same wiring. They didn't, however. In my opinion that is evidence that customers can expect that type of thing from Garmin in the future as well. Yes, I can make more money as an installer by rewiring the 430 harness to a 650 harness, but that costs the end user more, and I don't like that.

All 4 systems are good, which is why they have such support (and MGL is making some headway as well) from their customer base. Their philosophies are different, with their functionality, with their customer interface and with their upgrade plans.

Narrow your search by research to 2 or 3, fly behind all of them with someone who knows them well, and go touch and feel them somewhere that the person showing you doesn't care which one you pick. Frankly, touching them at SNF or Oshkosh gets the spin of the salesman on each, which will tell you the strengths of each unit and ignore the weaknesses. The only way to really make a decision unclouded by bias is to talk to someone (like Stein and others) who sell all of them. To be perfectly honest, I sell all except Garmin because they won't sell to the little guy. If you are trying to decide between Dynon and Garmin, I am going to spin for Dynon (which should be fairly obvious from some of my comments). They are perfectly valid arguments, IMHO, but they are not bias-free. If you are trying to decide among Dynon, AFS and GRT, then come talk to me and I can tell you what I like and don't like about each of them. I fly regularly on Dynon and AFS, and have a decent amount of time behind the GRT. I also wire/install all of them regularly. I like them all and dislike them all in different ways and to different extents.
 
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I think wiring is soon to be on the way out. There is no reason that the wiring cannot be made 100% plug and play similar to Ethernet or USB. In fact, I would love to see Garmin or Dynon come out with a box that has the following wiring:

1. Power & Ground
2. Power from backup battery
3. Pitot Static
4. Antenna inputs
5. Servo connections
6. Magnetometer
7. Engine monitor input single connection from firewall to unit. All other wiring connected at other side of firewall.

A self contained system having modular detachable components (transponder, comm, gps, etc) that simply plug directly into the main screen unit would be great. Wiring might take all of 2-3 hours for the entire system including autopilot.

With this design needs to be a part 23 re-write allowing the WAAS GPS in the G3X/Dynon to be used for primary navigation and approaches. There is no reason it should not be allowed.

How nice would it be to have a dual screen system with engine monitor, autopilot, GPS enroute/approach certified, ADS-B compliant, dual comms, nav, audio panel, etc for roughly $12k complete and that you could install in one day?

This is what really needs to happen. It makes no sense whatsoever to have dedicated remote GPS boxes that cost $10k+ along with hours of wiring for something that can be done all in one unit.
 
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